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Smiley64
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20 Jul 2009, 9:41 pm

Hello

My boy (12yo) is having a hard time controlling his anger - he seems to be losing it over nothing, and is definitely getting worse than he has ever been. He lost it three times within the last two weeks :x

Do you have any ideas on how to deal with this ?

His Dad is punishing him in the wrong way (so I've read), but I can't tell him that because.... well, I just can't. He's being made to sit in a chair for one hour, supposedly to reflect on what got him there. But this is not working.

Your help in this would be most appreciated.

Cheers



Aimless
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20 Jul 2009, 9:59 pm

This is something I have to deal with too. My son is 11. I think the key is to recognize the early warning signs of an imminent meltdown and see that he gets some sensory breaks. There are a couple of books "Asperger's and Difficult Moments" and "The Explosive Child" that are supposed to help you with this.



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21 Jul 2009, 12:06 pm

I agree with Aimless. Work on prevention, and check out those books (they are recommended often, even though I have not read them yet). Remember that the "little thing" is usually the trigger and not the actual source. You need to get at the actual source, if possible.

We've been lucky in that my 12 year old son hasn't started the hormone thing yet and isn't like this yet, but it seems to be common for this age. The theory is that the kids don't understand and can't deal with the additional stress from the hormonal changes occuring in their bodies. Social pressures also change. A lot is going on in his life, and he needs help dealing with the stress.


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Smiley64
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21 Jul 2009, 3:53 pm

thanks guys for the responses.

He has been getting angry during social conflict (he clenches his fists and his teeth - the other day, whilst out with his Nana, he lost it with his cousin and walked off to go out of the shopping mall. Needless to say Nana had to run after him to grab him back. He ignored (or didn't hear?) her when she called his name. She's late 60s so running after a 12yo in a shopping mall is not the best thing for her. He told her he was angry and that he could look after himself.

The other night he had an altercation with his sister (non-Aspie) during the washing up. Over whether to use a knife or a fork to scrape remnants off the dishes. His sister had already put the knife in the dishwasher. He retrieved it - although the fork was right there. Of course, his sister didn't help things much by taking the knife away and telling him to use the fork. I think in that instance it was a lack of verablisation (of both parties) in not getting their point across. But it ended up with Father punishing Boy for "getting angry".

He's also started to use Aspergers as an excuse. For example, he was late back to class the other day and blamed it on his having Aspergers. Naturally, we stomp right on that.



Tracker
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21 Jul 2009, 10:52 pm

Bah, this keeps happening. I get started on a response, but I dont finish it before I go to sleep.

Anyways, I just wanted to leave a note saying that I am working on a response and will finish later.



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21 Jul 2009, 11:09 pm

My son isn't verbal most of the time and had some outburst or a other on a nearly daily bais for months while dealing with a awful school year last year. His teacher just stopped coming to work and they left jake with a pair of aids that had never dealt with an auntie before for months then they brought in the home school teachers on and off for the last hafe of the year. The stress was just too much for Jake. We got him in to a better program this year with staff that only work with austism. I know it's not easy to get any 12 year old boy to talk to his mom but if you can try and see where the stress is coming from and work together on ways for him to deal with it other then yelling or hitting I think it would be a big help. Now that the school thing is fixed Jake is a whole new kid he's so happy and much easier going then ever before. We've also talked about how it's ok to be mad but it's what you do with it that matters, ok I've talked and talk and talks some more but now he's not biting people when he's upset but pillows and stufffed toys are ok to bite. We also try our best to give him the space he needs to destress and make sure to tell him what he's doing right and how proud we are of how well he's doing. When he does start to do something that isn't ok we tell him in a very firm but nice way like "please don't flip the light switchs on and off, because it gives your brother a head-ach and wastes power" when he stops we make sure to say thankyou for do what we asked. I sounds silly but it's working and everyone is so much happier for it.



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21 Jul 2009, 11:10 pm

Hi,
I don't know if you've ever heard of or used the 5 point scale which is supposed to help diffuse the situation before the person gets to the point of losing it.
There are two books that I know about it.... "A "5" Could Make Me Lose Control!" and "The Incredible 5 Point Scale" both by Kari Dunn Buron.

It helps you to work out what different moods feel like when you put them on that 5 point scale and to recognize when things are getting out of hand so that you can leave the situation and do something else or focus on a relaxation technique or something like that.



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22 Jul 2009, 4:43 am

CRD wrote:

[quote]When he does start to do something that isn't ok we tell him in a very firm but nice way like "please don't flip the light switchs on and off, because it gives your brother a head-ach and wastes power" when he stops we make sure to say thankyou for do what we asked. I sounds silly but it's working and everyone is so much happier for it.[/quot

It works for me too. When I stopped assuming what my son should know and explained things calmly and politely it made a world of difference.



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27 Jul 2009, 8:55 pm

Hello, and welcome to the forums. I am sorry for the delay, but I have been mulling this over in my head for a while trying to figure out what to say. I think I finally got everything sorted out.

I should start off by saying that you may need to explore alternative methods of interacting with your son. As I have posted far too many times on this forum, you need to be working WITH your son, not AT him. I really should write a book about this, as this issue gets brought up so often.

Allow me to explain fully. The reality of the world is that certain behaviors are harmful, not because they are socially inappropriate (such as swearing), but because they harm things directly. These include physical violence against others, stealing things, destroying property, intentionally harming others, scamming people, etc. I am sure that if you sat down, you could make a pretty long list of harmful things that shouldn't be done. An important part of raising children is getting them to avoid acting in these ways, not just in the immediate short term, but for the entirety of their lives. And the way to do this is relatively strait forward:

1. You must get their agreement that a certain behavior is unacceptable, and needs to stop.
2. Then you have to work with them and figure out a way to HELP them stop these inappropriate actions.

To extrapolate on those two points. Item number 1 is often overlooked by many parents. When a child does something considered inappropriate, the first thing most parents do is jump strait to punishment. This does not work well. Most children figure out that certain actions lead to discomfort, and thus avoid those actions. Which is the basis of how the system works. Unfortunately this system often fails once the threat of discomfort has been removed. I cant tell you all the students I have seen fail out of freshmen year at college because they didnt study. Once they move out to the dorms and dont have their parents to nag on them, they stop doing things that they should do because the threat of nagging given by the parents is no longer there. If you want your guidance to be in effect for longer then your threat, then you cant rely on a threat based system for teaching your son.

Likewise, repeatedly punishing your son doesnt help to strengthen the parent child bond. Trust me when I say that this is not a very strong bond with autistic children. I am not saying that your child dislikes you, but he isnt likely to continue coming back and opening up to you if you keep punishing him. Forgive the poor metaphor, but normal children are like dogs. You can hit a dog and it will still come when you call it. But if you hit a cat, good luck ever getting it to come near you again. Consider your child to be like a cat. Likewise, you can punish a normal child, and they will still open up to you and trust you, not really going to happen with an autistic child. You need to earn their trust and respect by treating them with respect. Repeatedly punishing your son, especially as he gets older, and parental influence declines will do nothing but put a rift in your family, and cause your son to become more angry, not less.

Instead, if you want your son to control his anger, not because he fears punishment, but instead due to internal self-control, then he needs to be in agreement that his anger needs to be controlled. The trick is how to convince him of this. For starters, sit your son down and tell him that you would like to talk about ways to help him. Tell him that you arent angry, and that you arent here to punish him, you just want to talk to him and help the family get over their problems so that there is peace in the house and nobody needs to get punished.

Once you are all sitting down, explain to him what is inappropriate, and why it is inappropriate, I.E. why that is a problem. Why does your son's angry screaming at his sister present a problem? Explain to him in full detail what the result is. Tell him that it makes his sister angry, and everybody gets upset, which only makes the problems worse. Tell him that he will not be able to work a job, and provide for himself if he screams at people who he tries to work with. Explain to him that screaming at people in public, especially if he is stronger then them, is considered threatening, and he may be arrested by the police. Basically, sit him down and explain in full and complete detail as much as you possibly can why losing his temper is a problem, and what the results are, on both his relationship with others, and how society treats him. What you need to do is get your son to acknowledge that losing his temper is a problem that needs to be solved.


Next, tell your son that you want to work with him to HELP (not force) him in his attempts to control his anger. Sit down with him, and work out situations where he has had problems in the past. Figure out what made him angry, and what can be done to prevent that from happening again. Perhaps he should avoid certain situations. Perhaps he needs different coping techniques. Find out what is making him angry, and work with him on how to either avoid, or deal with that problem. Also, give him a good outlet for his aggression. Something as simple as some padded boxing gloves and a sturdy wall in his room may be a great start. Also, work out what he should do when he is becoming angry. For starters he should try to work out the situation if possible. Remain calm and talk your way through. If that is not possible, then get away from the situation. Just take some time to walk around a bit and calm down.

If he does lose his temper, then what should he do about it. I personally think that removing himself from the situation, and calming down would be a good start. After that, he must attempt to apologize for his outburst. A simple note saying, 'my apologize, I lost my temper when I shouldn't have, and I am sorry that I treated you poorly.' will suffice. Try not to tell your son that he is a bad person just because he failed. Instead, just tell him that he must apologize to those he hurt, and try to figure out how to prevent it from happening again.

It seems like he is already doing this:

Smiley64 wrote:
He has been getting angry during social conflict (he clenches his fists and his teeth - the other day, whilst out with his Nana, he lost it with his cousin and walked off to go out of the shopping mall. Needless to say Nana had to run after him to grab him back. He ignored (or didn't hear?) her when she called his name. She's late 60s so running after a 12yo in a shopping mall is not the best thing for her. He told her he was angry and that he could look after himself.


What would you have him do instead, punch his cousin? To me it sounds as though he acted appropriately by getting away from the situation. And to be honest, he is 12 years old, I think he is mature enough to be more then 10 feet away from his Nana. Perhaps next time, he could just go some place else in the store, and you could swing by to pick him up when you are done. My guess is that he would be fine waiting in the electronics or sports sections for a few minutes without adult supervision.

As for your current method of attempting to modify behavior via time outs:
Younger children may lack the ability to understand things fully. As in they dont know the full affects of how they hurt other people, and dont understand what the big problem is. In that situation, a typical reward/punishment system is often times useful. I.E. brush your teeth and you get a quarter, hit your sister and loose a quarter. Since they are not capable of seeing far enough into the future to understand the full implications of their actions, you often have to provide more immediate consequences so that they can understand the importance of acting a certain way. However, I really need to make this obviously clear. This method of reward/punishment is only a TEMPORARY, stop gap measure until your child is old enough to see the full consequences of his actions. Once he is capable of understanding that, providing additional consequences (such as your husband's idea of giving him a time out) only serve to annoy, and infuriate your son. To be honest, this sort of parenting technique really shouldn't be used much past the age of 10, at the latest. It saddens me how many parents I see try to force their children to act in certain ways via threats at later ages. I mean really, when you ground your teenager do you think that fixes anything, or does it just make them angry and more defiant.



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27 Jul 2009, 10:11 pm

" I am not saying that your child dislikes you, but he isnt likely to continue coming back and opening up to you if you keep punishing him. Forgive the poor metaphor, but normal children are like dogs. You can hit a dog and it will still come when you call it. But if you hit a cat, good luck ever getting it to come near you again. Consider your child to be like a cat."

This is actually not true.

None of my sisters or I are currently talking to either parent because they were abusive, I have not spoken to either of mine in a long time, and even while I was still living with my mother I had no trust in her what so ever. My son however, it took him a long time to get to the point where he was willing to admit that his father was abusive and that I was right to disallow contact with him. My X was sent to jail for beating him so badly that he had bruises and welts for two weeks. It was not even the first time it had happened. My son still wanted me dead when I picked him up from DHS custody.

Every child is different in what they will accept and respond to.

I will agree that the OP needs to relax a little as far as how he is handling situations. Ten or eleven is not so horrible for just walking outside of a Mall. I let mine walk to the grocery store, library and post office by himself. All of those places are roughly a mile away. Granted I live in a small town and everyone at those places knows he is mine.

An hour is too long, but five or ten minutes to decompress in time out, then having a short discussion I feel is very appropriate for ten years old.



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27 Jul 2009, 10:59 pm

Yeah, I guess I was just speaking based on personal experience.

My mother is a very mean person, and I had no interest in her or anything that could be called a parent-child relationship. I avoided her as much as possible and moved out as soon as I could. My brother (NT) on the other hand seemed to ignore her mean personality and keep going back for more. I always chalked that up to him being NT, but I guess it could depend from person to person.

However that being said, try not to test it with your own children.



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28 Jul 2009, 1:35 am

>_< I think that goes without saying, but it also does not always apply to dogs either heh

My mother was very mean also. It would be nice if a person could at least get one good parent, but I lucked out in that respect also.



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28 Jul 2009, 8:58 pm

IF hes angry and walks away out of the mall or somewhere, it is way better that that is the case rather than him assaulting anyone physically.He just needs time to cool off and get over what he is angry about.You shold commend him for doing that rather than punishing him for being angry.Anger is a human emotion.He is NOT a robot, thus he feels emotions.He is 12 and if hes angry and walks away, let him.Give him time to calm down and think things over.If a person is punished for simply being angry they are going to think they must bottle it up, then one day they could snap and that could possibly end up having tragic results.


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Smiley64
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28 Jul 2009, 9:08 pm

Thanks for all your comments.

Unfortunately he is NOT able to be left to wander off on his own. Especially in a large shopping centre - way too hard to find him!!

And yes, he did good in that he EVENTUALLY walked away - after clenching fists and teeth ! But he still should have come to the supervising adult and explained the situation.



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28 Jul 2009, 9:21 pm

When I was still living with my parents, when I got angry, I went out for a drive in my Explorer, and when I was younger, I went out for a walk or a bike ride.


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28 Jul 2009, 9:33 pm

Smiley64 wrote:
Thanks for all your comments.

Unfortunately he is NOT able to be left to wander off on his own. Especially in a large shopping centre - way too hard to find him!!

And yes, he did good in that he EVENTUALLY walked away - after clenching fists and teeth ! But he still should have come to the supervising adult and explained the situation.



Does he know how to get home from school and such on his own.I dunno, but with me, when I was 12, I grew up in a town of 5600 people in rural Alberta.I was allowed to go about the town without interference and find my way back home.I had a paper route at that age too.Do you live in a small town, if so, then it wouldnt hurt to let him go cool off if he knows how to get back home.

As far as seeing the adult about why he is angry, sometimes when Im angry, I dont want to talk to anyone and would rather be alone in my thoughts for the time being to think about it and find a solution.

as far as big malls go, when I was 13, I was allowed to go about West Edmonton Mall on my own and do my own shopping and such.We all lived an hour away in Vegreville during such.We just had a designated meeting time and place for when it was time to go.


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ALBERTAN...and DAMN PROUD OF IT!!