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Do you think self described "nice" guys are realy
Sweet guys who like flowers and kittens and would never be nice to someone simply because of lust or infatuation, but are commonly mistaken for gay. 7%  7%  [ 3 ]
Cops, Figherfighters, Paramedics, Soldiers, and others who live in dangerous and auster conditions, who have a secret death wish or homicidal fantasy masked by a self professed desire to serve the community. 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Social cowards who won't stand up for themselves or others 5%  5%  [ 2 ]
A guy who would not protect his woman in a dangerous situation. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
A Nerd who spend all day living in a self absorbed fantasy world of manga, video games, and porn who suddenly finds himself in "love" with a pretty woman who talked to him because she didn't want to be rude. 26%  26%  [ 11 ]
People who use the word "nice" as a crutch for social akwardness 14%  14%  [ 6 ]
A guy with an extreem and unwield moral compass, that refuses to comprimise the "truth" to save someones feelings, and thinks that being a virgin or recycling makes him better than everyone else. 7%  7%  [ 3 ]
None of the Above-Nice guys finish last because it's all womens fault 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Any one or more of the above 38%  38%  [ 16 ]
Total votes : 42

Roman
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07 Aug 2009, 7:30 am

zena4 wrote:
Roman, I can see that it's not as simple as it looked like first.
It's so complicated. Maybe she was just fed up of the situation and also confused herself?
You know, the kind of: "Should I stay or I should I go".


Then why be so rude about it? Her rudeness implied htat she is sure that I was acting like a jerk and I knew it.

zena4 wrote:
But also, it's not that easy to get used to guess everytime you see someone smiling or laughing that it can be due to anxiety or pain or sadness or whatever.
Or even just think it could be. It's tricky for the 2 persons in relation :?


Okay the smiling incident was in Israel, and she was in America. It has nothing to do with her (I simply found it funny when they said that in German math classes they would give math problems involving killing Jews). Again, she wasn't there, nor did I tell this to her in "pouting" conversation, so it can't possibly be what she was mad for.

The reason I listed it was because due to hw OTHER PEOPLE mistreated me after that, I happened to be depressed. So I continued to be depressed WHILE TALKING TO HER. But she decided i was puting AT HER. Well if someone upsets me I will be depressed while doing groceries, but it doesn't mean I am puting at the person in the grocery store.

Now, true, she kept asking me why I was depressed and I kept not answering. BUt that is simply because it took a day to think and ermember what could have made me depressed. ALl I could feel at the time was simply being "overwhelmed by a lot of things", these "things" are 4 items. Typically once there is more than one or two things I am depresed about I no longer remember them all; I just feel overwhelmed and tired. That is exactly how I felt while talking to her. But she mistook it as my "pouting".

To make it worse during the conversation she didn't say "why are you pouting". Rather, she was EXTREMELY SHELTERING AND LOVING, she was saing like "it is okay to be depressed", "take a deep breath", "I love you", etc. And the next day she blocks my phone number because I was "pouting".



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07 Aug 2009, 8:09 am

r1x wrote:
Let's face it, while you and Anita were first dating, you were totaly into her..right?


Actually it started during in March or April, and I was facing a decision by physics department that I would be expelled until I find a physics advisor by June 1. I found her on a dating site. I basically IM-ed her and swore at her, and closed the window. THen she IM-ed me agian, I again swore at her, and closed a window. SHe then sent me an email asking whether I was okay. I responded with an appology saying htat I was just upset about my situation at school. She responded that she understands, and forgives me, and gave me a phone number so I could call her.

I did. I then again apologised to her and she said she forgives me. THen I asked her whether I still have a chance in a relationship she said yes. We then talked like for an hour or so. THen the next day I sent her an email where again I swore at her. Then I sent another emial right after that where I told her that I simply talked to one of the professors who refused working with me and was angry, and I apologised and asked her to "pretend that I didn't send it to her". Then she responded saying that she pretending that I didn't do anything wrong, and again that she understands that I am destressed.

Then in my next phone conversation I again was askign if I lost chances iwth her, she sasid no I didn't. But she said she wanted to make it clear that "relationship means forever with me". I said yes I would like to be forever with her. Do I have a chance? Anyway in that conversation we decided to be engaged, and she said that she put a ring on her finger that she had which I didn't even have to buy. In other words, we got engaged like a week after we first talked.

At the same time, however, within the entire 5 months WE NEVER PHYSICALLY MET. When I brought up why, she said that she was just worried that because I was so upset about what is going on in school and will leave her. So she didn't want to meet me so that it would hurt her less if that were to happen. THat is one thing I completely don't understand. To me, it is the opposite: I am MUCH more likely to break up with someone if I am HAPPY otherwise. In situations like being expelled from school I will CLINGE on anyone and everyone, because that would be my only last straw to not be completely miserable. But I guess that might be part of the whole "happiness" thing I don't understand about her.

Anyway, up until June 1, we were talking for several hours every day. The conversatoni consisted mostly of my complainig of what was going on in school, her givning me different advice. For instance she suggested a small school near where I live as somewhere to check out for potential advisors (I was told I can stay in school as long as I find a thesis advisor ANYWHERE, including other schools). Also, she repeatedly suggested to "talk to my physics department to tell them about my passion for physics" (which I refused since my mom talks to my physics department and I didn't want my mom to konw I was dating). I was also complaining to her what would happen if I will get expelled and will have to go to California and never see her. She told me that long distance is okay with her and besides she has a lot of family in California.

Anyway, in all of these conversations she kept telling me how much she loves me trying to soothe me. SO yes I gave her a lot of attention, although I was talking aout school, not her. But I enjoy her telling me that she loves me.

The first time it went slightly downhills was few days before June 1. I still didn't have advisor. So when she called me I sounded extremely depressed being almost certain I would be kicked out. Then I noticed she distanced herself -- in a sense that instead of calling 5 or 7 times a day and talking for an hour each time, she was only calling may be 2 or 3 times a day. At first she denied she distanced herself. But later she explained that seh never heard me before talkng in such a quiet voice. I always talk in loud voice, which she calls "passion" and now I didn't have anything left of my passion. And she was afraid that since I was so depressed I was going to leave her (again I don't understand why being depressed would make me leave her -- to me it makes me CLINGE, so agian I don't understand her verion of being sad).

Then LO AND BEHOLD, someone agrees to be my advisor RIGHT ON THE LAST DAY, and I stay in school! So I feel totally happy. In order to selebrate that I stay in school, I decided to write something online to get attention. I wrote in several bullitin boards, dont remember what, but the topics had nothing to do with staying in school or anything else in particular. So, among other things, I wrote an email to her where I put a list of 10 questions or so about varius things she said before, which I didn't have chance to ask before because I was too involved with school. Well, that list of questions was a first real blow to a relationship. She basically responded saying that she is not going to "prove herself" and that I am an adult and if I don't like being with her I can just leave. THen I sent her a lot of expl;anations how none of these questions are very important, they aer only 1% doubts, not 50% or even 10%. She kept telling me that I probably don't trust her and that I have to THINK in order to figure out if I trust her or not (as if I don't know my own mind). Anyway, eventually I perswaded her to stay.

Then the next incident, 2 weeks later, was when she was drivign a car adn drove over a deer. She sent me an email how she feels sad about the deer and how its like her "losing her best friend". I didn't have time to write a resposne to her (I was in my way to talk to the advisr) so I just wrote "I am sorry about the deer", and I accidentally misspelled things, so I spelled "sorry" as "worry". And then she responded with one-liner "whom do you worry about, deer or me". I could'nt get ahold of her until the evening. Then in teh evening when I did, she told me that actually she broke one of her bones in htat incident, and I didn't even express any sympatyhy for that; I only mentioned the deer. WELL HOW WERE I SUPPOSED TO KNOW SHE BROKE ONE OF HER BONES IF SHE DIDN"T TELL ME SHE DID. S o she assumed I was psychic. Then I told her that II din't know because she didn't meniotn it in the email. THen she tells me that the erason she didn't menion it was taht she dind't want to upset me. Well, but I weren't accusing HER of not telling me, I was simply explaining why *I* didn't know. So even tough she had reason not to tell me (that she didn't want to upset me) it still won't change a fact that I won't KNOW something I am not told, and I can't express sympathy for something I dno't know.

Well, that was a second blow. THen the rest of the blows are explained in previous responses, they started probably 2 weeks after the deer incident.



r1x wrote:
You stopped whatever silly obsessions and hobbies and spent all your time talking with her. She dumped after you took a trip because it showed that you could live without her. Pink Ninja Vampires hate that. .


Well I talked to her about school which ARE my obsessions. But I guess it is still true I gave her undivided attention since she was the only one to console me.

r1x wrote:
Smothering is the female version of creepy, it's something that Mundane (NT) males run away from. Atypical (AS) males, happy that someone is even talking to them, often fall prey.


In my case I wasn't simply okay with it; I found it to be a BIG GIFT that someone would smother.



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07 Aug 2009, 8:50 am

deleted



Last edited by r1x on 09 Aug 2009, 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

Roman
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07 Aug 2009, 11:25 am

r1x wrote:
Roman wrote:
I found her on a dating site. I basically IM-ed her and swore at her, and closed the window. THen she IM-ed me agian, I again swore at her, and closed a window. SHe then sent me an email asking whether I was okay. I responded with an appology saying htat I was just upset about my situation at school. She responded that she understands, and forgives me, and gave me a phone number so I could call her. THen I asked her whether I still have a chance in a relationship she said yes. We then talked like for an hour or so. THen the next day I sent her an email where again I swore at her.


Ok dude, you totaly used her. Whatever reason she had for cutting the relatioinship off, it was self preservation on her part. She probably figured out your a self-absorbed jerk and only enjoyed the relationship if it was about you. And I understand that. I am one too. I'm trying to work on it, but it's not natural. I hate almost anything that's good in the world if it's boring or mundane. And long term relationships involve a lot of boring and mundain activites. And don't bother trying NOT to be a self absorbed jerk. Just be up front about it with women and continue to date.


That part you quoted me saying was on the VERY BEGINNIG of a relationship, which then went on for 5 months. So that coudln't have been why she broke up with me. In fact, that was when she started being closer and closer to me and very sheltering.



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07 Aug 2009, 11:27 am

r1x wrote:
I'll translate what Anita was saying to you--"I spent months trying to turn you into an undead love slave who did not eat, drink, breath or use the restroom without thinking of how it would affect me. I thought it would be easy because you were a geek. I now see it isn't going to work and I'm off to find a man with weaker willpower. But I can't tell you that to your face, so I'm going to use your tiredness to tell all my girlfriends you completly ignored me so they won't think I'm actually the problem...and they will all tell me I'm to nice to these jerks".


Yeah except she didn't complain I ignored her; she said I was "pouting".



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07 Aug 2009, 6:16 pm

As not a 'nice' guy I think we have had enough of this nice guy/jerk analysis. It isn't very meaningful and it relates very poorly to actual behaviour. What we think of ourselves is mostly delusion. We are animals, our behaviour is animalistic. Time to drop all the pretences.

Time and time again people come on here assuming that we haven't read enough on the subject, when in fact it has been done to death on both sides. Remind me never to meet anyone who gets involved in this piffle. :lol:



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07 Aug 2009, 6:44 pm

r1x wrote:
1. Your not a nice guy just because you fall in love with a pretty girl and shower her with too much attention. Your desperate attempts to bribe her with your niceness does not mean she does not like nice guys, it means she doesn't like you. Your not a nice guy, your a stalker.
2. Your not a nice guy just because you allow yourself to be used by a pretty woman. Some women feel that stalkers who won't take a hint might as well pay for the privilege of being near them. Your a satellite that whispers how bad her boyfriend is and how much he's just using her. Because you don't like her boyfriend and you spend all your time with her but she doesn't sleep with you does not mean your a nice guy. It means you like things you can't have. Your not a nice guy, your pathetic.
3. Your not a nice guy because the only women who will get in a relationship with you are crying drama magnets or screaming rage queens. The normal guys can see a drama magnet a mile away, and they run. A normal guy doesn't take verbal abuse just because you always know what's on their mind. Your ADD/AS or whatever works better under stress, so its natural that you will hook up with someone who is manic/depressive, verbally abusive, or has 8 kids with ten possible fathers. That doesn't make you a nice guy, that makes you a masochist.
4. Lack of confidence does not make you nice
5. Being extremely left wing or right wing does not make you a nice guy. Protesting at abortion clinics or anti-war rallies does not make you nice.
6. Staying in your house reading comic books and playing video games does not make you nice.
7. Unfortunately, dating someone who you are not physically attracted to is also not nice. I wish that would put us on the nice scale. But they will eventually figure it out and be hurt.
8. Just because you don't notice the cute shy girl in the corner that has a crush you, doesn't make you nice, it makes you unaware of what's in front of you.
So, take the word nice and jerk out of your dating vocabulary. It applies to how you treat your parents, co-workers, and neighbors. Visit an old folks home and talk to some of the older widows, make them feel like someone cares without any reward. That's nice. Adopt a stray dog. Give money to charity. Go to your place of worship, and volunteer to run the sound system or something. And don't tell anyone your doing it, especially someone your dating.

NOTICE THE MODERATELY ATTRACTIVE SHY GIRL IN THE CORNER THAT TALKS TO YOU AND LOOKS AWAY. NOTICE THE GIRL THAT DOES NOT DO HER HAIR OR DOESN'T WHERE MAKEUP! NOTICE THE GIRL THAT LAUGHS AT YOUR SARCASTIC SENSE OF HUMOR. NOTICE THE GIRL THAT’S LONELY BECAUSE SHE DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO APPROACH YOU. THOSE GIRLS ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT DON’T LIKE JERKS.

BUT BEING "NICE" TO A GIRL YOU HAVE THE HOTS FOR IS NOT "NICE"! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !

Signed...a reformed 'nice' guy


I agree with all the above, motion seconded!!

Signed...a moderately shy girl in the corner (honestly, I am and now I haved bagged a genuinely nice guy who I have been with for three years)


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08 Aug 2009, 12:24 am

MsDoubt wrote:
To TOS....Its not that those girls dont like jerks, they like anyone because they don't get enuff attention.
There are pretty girls who dont like jerks, but just because she doesnt like jerks doesnt mean that there arent guys approaching her every minute, or a couple of guys who like her.
The answer to all of this is not through people, it should be through God.
ask God....

"God, why did you make women this way?"
"God, why are women so confusing?"
"God, why do so many women like jerks?"

That way you get one right answer instead of bs that people make up themselves. God made women, and as they say, he didnt make any mistakes.
Your answer won't come as clear as day. Some guy told me that he prayed to God to help him understand women, and he got his answer. His answer was a wife and 3 girls.

And teh funny this is, is that, he still doesn't understand them.
Stop wasting your time trying to understand things, matybe its not meant to understand. just be yourself and go from there


It's not even a case of pretty girls vs. others for me either... for some reason I'm not attracted to the commonly-accepted definition of "hot" or "pretty" as most other people are... but even the girl sitting in the corner gives me weird looks if she catches me even glancing in her direction... I'm pretty sure that there's no woman out there for me...

As for God, well, I've been praying those lines for 7 years now, and so far, nothing... I'm pretty sure God is at least getting a kick out of it though... I've found Him to be a fan of people making an ass of themselves... Either way the one thing that I keep fantasizing about (yet know would never actually happen) is a woman that would walk up to me and tell me that she likes me, as opposed to using bullshit body language that I don't pick up... hell, even something like waving at me would at least be among the body language that I do pick up, and would give me something to go on...



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08 Aug 2009, 3:34 am

MsDoubt wrote:
AnnaLemma wrote:
Just some observations, because I shared offices/cubicles for years with a few self-described nice guys. Very emotionally needy--showered girls with attention and gifts and totally creeped them out. Somehow only pined for really beautiful girls, never were interested in plain-looking girls, who were otherwise quite nice themselves. Were vastly more sensitive to rejection than other guys, gave it more significance than it seemed to me the situation deserved (most wild predators have a success rate on the hunt of less than 50%). Looking back I can only say one of these was likely AS, but the others had some traits, though were probably NT.

They were pretty beaten up by the process and made me thankful to be female and happily married.


What's your point? may I ask?. You can explain and tell me if I am wrong, because I may be.

You are glad that you are female because you don't have to put up with being rejected because you give someone your undivided attention all the time or a lot of the time. You are glad that you are female because you don't have to deal with the problems that men have, as in always trying to figure out if women like you as the way you are or as a different person. You are glad that you don't have to deal with having to approach someone a certain way just to get them attracted. You are glad that you don't have to think about how to approach someone, or if you say the wrong thing, you may creep someone out.
Well if you are glad because of those reasons, you are a pretty reasonable girl, because no one has to go through all of that. But this is what men have to go through everyday, especially AS men.
Its just like if we were to see a guy we were attracted to and give him attention, but every time we do, he just gets creeped out.
Just imagine people saying this:
In order for a girl to get a guy, she must be:

-Confident
-Assertive
-Don't be overly nice
-Don't come on too strong
-Must approach them
-If she gets rejected then its her problem not the guy's problem and she needs to fix it, and dont be a baby by worrying or crying about it.
-Must act this way and that way
-Must have money
-Must have all this
-A car
-Cash
-House of own

I'm trying to defend the guys because it seems that they arent getting the truth from anywhere or anyone else on this site.
It is true, all a girl has to do is look pretty and she can get guys.
A goodlooking guy can't get anything, he has to come along with other attributes.

A woman can be broke, have no job, have no car, insecure, needy, nice, short, tall, dress like a guy, dress like a girl, but all she needs to be is pretty and she can get a guy like that.
thanks for the defensive insight. ironically the list of expectations in a male by females in deriving relationship potential as you have listed come from the lingering remnants of our once strongly chauvinistic culture. or at least for the most part. and frankly we're under quite a bit of pressure to meet the criteria. and in some cases we simply can't. or the criteria seems unfair. there's no pressure on girls to be the one who must approach for example. one thing of many i wish were different.

it's mostly for the lack of such listed things that i don't even have the confidence to try.


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08 Aug 2009, 4:45 am

You're right chauvinistic and racist. Who founded this country? Rich White Men. They let no one rise above not even women.So they maintained all the stuff, and just left women at home to do housework.



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08 Aug 2009, 5:21 am

MsDoubt wrote:
You're right chauvinistic and racist. Who founded this country? Rich White Men. They let no one rise above not even women.So they maintained all the stuff, and just left women at home to do housework.
yup, a chauvnism swung both ways. just as it was crippling to women who wanted to do more, it also trapped men with expectations to do more. even in these modern times we haven't quite broken free of it.

maybe someday the social expectations of men and women will be utterly and entirely equal and unbiased by tradition and past-culture, we're making progress to it, but some still hide behind excuses of what is expected of their gender, etc.

some use it to excuse action taken
some use it as excuse to take no action


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08 Aug 2009, 5:32 am

Roman wrote:
r1x wrote:
I'll translate what Anita was saying to you--"I spent months trying to turn you into an undead love slave who did not eat, drink, breath or use the restroom without thinking of how it would affect me. I thought it would be easy because you were a geek. I now see it isn't going to work and I'm off to find a man with weaker willpower. But I can't tell you that to your face, so I'm going to use your tiredness to tell all my girlfriends you completly ignored me so they won't think I'm actually the problem...and they will all tell me I'm to nice to these jerks".


Yeah except she didn't complain I ignored her; she said I was "pouting".


My appologies to both Roman and Anna. I was sarcasticly over simplyfing things for the sake of humor, and I hope it was taken that way. There is no magic formula for attraction and relationships.



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08 Aug 2009, 5:58 am

Seanmw wrote:
MsDoubt wrote:
You're right chauvinistic and racist. Who founded this country? Rich White Men. They let no one rise above not even women.So they maintained all the stuff, and just left women at home to do housework.
yup, a chauvnism swung both ways. just as it was crippling to women who wanted to do more, it also trapped men with expectations to do more. even in these modern times we haven't quite broken free of it.

maybe someday the social expectations of men and women will be utterly and entirely equal and unbiased by tradition and past-culture, we're making progress to it, but some still hide behind excuses of what is expected of their gender, etc.

some use it to excuse action taken
some use it as excuse to take no action


Well said.


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08 Aug 2009, 5:59 am

r1x wrote:
Roman wrote:
r1x wrote:
I'll translate what Anita was saying to you--"I spent months trying to turn you into an undead love slave who did not eat, drink, breath or use the restroom without thinking of how it would affect me. I thought it would be easy because you were a geek. I now see it isn't going to work and I'm off to find a man with weaker willpower. But I can't tell you that to your face, so I'm going to use your tiredness to tell all my girlfriends you completly ignored me so they won't think I'm actually the problem...and they will all tell me I'm to nice to these jerks".


Yeah except she didn't complain I ignored her; she said I was "pouting".


My appologies to both Roman and Anna. I was sarcasticly over simplyfing things for the sake of humor, and I hope it was taken that way. There is no magic formula for attraction and relationships.


It must have looked very simple to HER since she decided to be so blatantly rude about it.

PS. Her name is Anita, not Anna.



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08 Aug 2009, 6:07 am

yet again, I stand corrected. Anita



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08 Aug 2009, 6:10 am

r1x wrote:
yet again, I stand corrected. Anita


Actually you were very close to evaluating her in terms of the way she was all over me and asking about every breath or whatever. I was just correcting details, not a big picture. I felt a need to get all the details straight.

So, going back to big picture, are you saying it is female version of creepiness because, as sweet as it is, it alwasy leads to a horrible endings, similar to the one I had with Anita.