Making conversation

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Sorry about the length guys, but I included a few examples to better illustrate what I am talking about

Have you ever listened to read , watched or listened to advice for Asperger’s social success and found that they are somewhat helpful, but it doesn’t really prepare you to the extent necessary? Obviously, you can’t anticipate every situation, but I think that some of the help already out there is too methodical. In a sense, this is a good thing in a good since because often times, people with Asperger’s need something concrete. These methods have taken me a long way. The problem is that there is something more. Otherwise, if someone spent doing Asperger’s research on the net and read a book or two, they would be on par with NT’s socially.

I recently watched someone try to pick up a girl that he saw in a store and thought was cute even though he didn't know her, but it didn’t go over well. The conversation was something like this: Boy: Hey what’s up? Girl: Not much, just shopping. Boy: Oh, that’s cool. Umm, so what’s your name? Girl: Cindy. Boy: Oh that’s a cool name. Ummmmmmmmmm, what do you like to do? The girl is kind of creeped out by a random person asking these question but is patient. Girl: I don’t know, um hang out with my friends and do whatever I guess.

Now things aren’t always this bad, but you can see that this conversation is going nowhere. It seems that people with AS have this sort of trouble regardless of the sex of the person. This is especially problematic when you encounter people who aren’t talkative around people that they don’t know.

Also, I spoke with a friend recently that I hadn’t seen in a couple of months. I asked how things were going with work (he was at his job on a break at the time) and he said he just got back from vacation so he had been out of the loop, but he was looking forward to things picking up after the summer. I realize now that I should have asked him about his vacation, but all I did was say, oh that’s nice (I didn’t ask him too much about the work stuff, because he knew that I knew pretty much anything that he was going to say). He asked about me and that was nice so we were able to talk for a bit. But then we went back to him and I didn’t have anything to follow up with so after a couple of seconds of silence and him looking at me expecting a reply, I said that I wouldn’t keep him any longer, but it was nice to see him. It wasn’t as bad as the other two situations, but it was still a little bit weird.

Here is another example.

I went to a small cookout for a friend who will soon leave the area. A number of his relatives (mostly aunts, uncles, etc) were around. I went into the room that he was in and I greeted him as he was playing a video game and some friends were sitting around. It was a small room so there wasn't really anywhere to sit down. We made small talk for a minute and he told me I could go grab some food so I did. When I came back he had left (temporarily everyone in room thought bc he didn't say that he was going for good) that room for the nearby living room. I was left alone with his sister (who I met briefly once before but neither one of us remembered until after I left), a couple of other girls who I hadn't met before, and I guy that I went to h.s. with but whose name I didn't remember because I never talked to him.

No one really talked that much. There was a brief conversation between me and his sister but again, it didn’t go anywhere.

Last edited by asperges on 11 Aug 2009, 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

I do understand what you are saying and I can relate to much of it, especially when someone you know leaves the room and you are left with people you hardly know. That can get kind of dicey sometimes.

Personally I think that you are thinking too deeply about this stuff. I know it is hard for us not to do this because we want to find out how NT's operate, but the best way to get better is just being in social situations. The more you do it the better you get. I just see how Nts operate and I try to impliment some of the things that they do.

I think its great that you have read some books and other things like that and I am glad that it has helped you but it is nothing like just going out and just naturally socializing. Like you said there are some subtle things that NTs do in convo that cannot be expained or taught in these books.

Just be yourself and let it roll.

I suck at talking. I never know what to say because talking for the sake of talking just seems like one of the most pointless, ret*d, god awful thing a person can do. I don't ask questions unless I care about the answer. A few years ago, before I knew about Aspergers, I was at a wedding reception and one of my friends was trying to get me to talk to this woman there. I never could think of anything to say. Just walking up to her and asking her if she liked the latest episode of Battlestar Galactica didn't seem like it would work so my friend suggested I ask her if she was affiliated with the bride or the groom as a way to start a conversation. I just remember thinking, "Why would I ask that? It doesn't matter." That information would be pretty much meaningless and the information really not useful so, to my mind, there was no reason to ask the question.

Asperges, I totally completely understand where you are coming from. Since I was 8 years old I have been looking for books about making conversations and getting on with people and I try to read everything that I find out about. I rationalise and systematise everything, and I think now I understand all the logic behind conversation in all sorts of situations. I still can't get it quite right in practice, partly because my brain often stops when I am with more than one person, sometimes even with one person. So what I am doing is writing down what I have learned and planning to practise the interactions that are still difficult.

Here is my attempt at explaining these situations that you gave examples of:

Boy trying to chat up girl
It's not quite clear what the context is. The girl didn't just walk away, so maybe they have been watching each other for some time, and already agreed with their eyes that it is okay to talk. The boy could have just told the girl what his name was and then said "well, nice to meet you, got to go now, see you around". And that is enough for an opening conversation. The purpose of this kind of introduction conversation is to show that you like the person, swap names. When you see the person again, you can say "hello Cindy", which shows you remember the person. It's like if you imagine friendship as a series of circles inside each other, that opening conversation moves that person from outside the circles altogether into the outermost one.

Unexpectedly in room with a bunch of people you don't know
This is a really hard situation. You don't have to be the first person to break the silence. Any conversation is likely to be smalltalk that is not meant to go anywhere, it is just passing the time. The purpose of talking is to show that you think the people are okay likeable people. It's a good idea to remember what they said, for instance if you remember their names then you know them to say hallo to in future.

Talking to someone you know and not being able to think what to ask
The way this happens to me, I will sometimes think of a list of things to ask someone about. When I see that person, my brain stops, it's like the eggtimer comes on. Some people are really talkative or kind and will remind me what they told me before, and then I remember the questions I had prepared. For shy people or people who are less patient and think I don't care about them I am trying to find a workaround, some kind of generic question that will get the person to talk and jog my memory.

In general I find that talking is useful for two reasons. One is practical - for instance at work for a computer company I used to plan what parts we had to buy. Every morning I would read the Change log, that told me if the engineers had changed a part. Every afternoon I would go and chat to the engineers. Usually it was just polite smalltalk about the computers and who was doing what. I found if I let them talk away about stuff they like to talk about, sometimes they would tell me about a Change they had not put on the log because they didn't see it was a change. Our informal chats saved our company millions of dollars. A homely example is, I chatted to my neighbour and found out he was a car mechanic. When my car battery went flat, I knew I could ask him how to recharge it.

Does that help at all?

Conversation at an NT level is tough. However, we can't let the feeling we need to be that good discourage us. Just say what you want to say, then stop. That's the best advice I've gotten.

Like with the guy talking to the girl in the store. No need to pointlessly extend the conversation. Just say hi, ask her what she's doing as a greeting, & let her know you think she's cute. If you can't carry the conversation any further, big deal. Don't.

Speak to various people until you find one who you can hold a conversation with. That's what I do, and it works. If you find you can hold a conversation with them... carry on. Remember to grab their email address I did, and I had a very interesting conversation about the DSM criteria for Aspergers (over MSN Messenger) with someone I met a few days previously. The reason I could hold a conversation? There was actually something interesting to talk about (she's interested in Psychology, so the topic didn't bore her).

Oh I know. Give me a topic and a keyboard and I can cope. Put me with a person, and I'm "Umm... hi..." *stare at shoes*
I'll try to keep in touch with the few people I know via email, and meet them once in a while.

Yes, I agree that being exposed to social situations helps you learn through the principle of trial and error as well as noticing subtle things that you haven’t seen before. The problem is it seems like I’ve been in these situations for years and years and even though I’ve improved quite a bit, I’m not where I want to be still.

Part of it is being a little more self-assertive. For example, I went to play a pick up sports game last night and I wanted to find just the right time to ask if I could join in. They were starting a play about the time that I walked up but I felt awkward just standing there for a bit. When I saw someone approach me, I was then able to ask “Hey do you have room for another,” but I couldn’t just shout what’s up guys. This applies to other things as well. I remember having to wait on tables when I was helping out at an event and I always felt really awkward about interrupting their conversation to ask if they would like more water or if I can take their plate.

Other times it does just not know how to respond. Again, throwing myself in a bunch of social situations helps, but is only part of the solution.

Ha. Dead eye, saying hi, “what’s your name, mine in Bob, I think your cute” doesn’t really work most of the time when you are trying to pick up girls in public places. You have to charm the girl.

I agree, if you can. But charm is a high-level social skill that only few, even among NTs, are good at. All I was saying is do the level of social interation you can. I'm sure saying "hi, I'm bob, & I think you're cute", was within the social capacity of the guy in the story. That's what he should have done. But, no, he tried to far exceed that. That's why the interaction went so badly.