How to eat without killing anything

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Shiggily
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15 Aug 2009, 5:01 am

Roman wrote:
Shiggily wrote:
You can enjoy meat and not kill the animal... easy problem solved.

Only eat one leg


I know you said in your next reply that is a joke; but actuallly I think that is a good idea. I would rather be without one leg then dead. Also you can improve on this by cutting just little pieces of meet instead of a whole leg from a lot of different caws.

By the way I heard that there are some animals that can regrow the missing part of the body. So may be it iis a good idea to eat these.


like most of what I say, it is both disturbing and logical


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Tantybi
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15 Aug 2009, 7:18 am

Roman wrote:
Tantybi wrote:
I have this theory. Look at nature. Separate white meat from red meat in your head. Doesn't it make sense that red meat was intended to eat? It seems that way to me. Cattle serves no real purpose (IMO) but to eat the meat and make clothes of the fur and drink milk.


By the way according to Old Testament clean/unclean laws, all the animals that eat other animals are considered unclen. Don't you think THAT could have been rationale behind these laws.

I also konw there ia another reason for that. Namely, whenever you go up the food chain a specy above has to eat A LOT of species below thus accomulating a lot of toxins. So the higher up species you eat, the more toxins you get from them. But it is interesting that this health thing totally coincides with the humane thing that species higher up have more consciousness than the ones lower hence kiilling them is worse. If you believe in God, perhaps He designed these two things to coincide (especially since He cared enough to declare the animals higher on a food chain to be unclean)

Tantybi wrote:
A question for the vegans... So if you are up against an animal that is trying to kill you because it's hungry, do you defend yourself inflicting pain and possible death on the animal or do you allow the animal to just kill you and eat you? If you opted for self defense, then why is self defense allowed? Survival? Because if we are talking survival, then how is eating not a form of survival?


A response of a vegeterian is that you don't need to kill in order to survive, since you can survive while being a vegeterian.

Now I know that response has a logical error, namely they forgot that they kill vegies in order to eat them. But that is a different logical error from the one you are tallking about. So, if we allow them to make that error, then they are perfectly consistent with "survival" idea since you don't need to kill ANIMALS in order to survive.


Let's look at it this way. I believe it's healthier to eat meat than vegetables alone. I believe that a healthy diet is a very diverse diet containing meat, vegetables, fruits, beans, fiber, dairy, and chocolate (I don't care about what they say about the body, but chocolate is healthy for my soul ;) ). I also believe most vegetarians agree with me about a healthy body bringing a healthy mind and soul. Yea you can survive off a vegetarian diet, but you thrive when you combine all the foods together. So for survival purposes, I find meat to be a part of it because it isn't just to survive, but survival of the fittest, and to be the fittest, I must eat some meat.

Also, I don't think any animal would think twice about saving my life out of compassion. If one did, I would make sure nobody ever ate it. Other than that, Bambi would be more apt to jump in front of my car in the early morning while it's still dark and not care if my kids are in there with me, and Wilbur would probably eat Charlotte by accident. I do think it's wrong to kill animals just to kill them. If you eat them, then it's part of natural law. If we don't eat them, they'd overpopulate us (especially on the deer thing).

But on the lets look at it this way... I don't eat seafood. I can't stand the texture. The whole thing grosses me out, and I don't think it tastes good enough to actually seek it out as part of my diet. So, if you tell me you are vegetarian because you just don't like meat, then that works. But if someone were to make it sound like I should burn in hell because there's a moral problem with my taste for meat and that I'm responsible for all the living animals and their fate, then I'm going to think most animals would eat that person because most animals love nuts.

Oh yeah, to add, I don't believe in unclean vs clean meat. I believe some things are preferable food over others. I've had alligator meat, and it was good. I've heard shark is pretty delicious too. That one I might try cause I heard the texture is more like a very tender chicken as opposed to the fishy texture. However, I will never eat the monkey brains (I've heard it's a delicacy in some countries to eat monkey brains while the monkey is still alive), well I don't really know what is in that hotdog now do I?


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Dianitapilla
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15 Aug 2009, 9:42 am

But for feeding so much humans you will have to have plantation and plantation requires devastating lands with nature that has grown following the curse of nature.

YOU WILL BE KILLING PLANTS AND OTHER FORMS OF LIFE THAT REQUIRE THIS PARTICULAR ENVIROMENT AND PLANTS TO SURVIVE.


SabbraCadabra wrote:
I don't think eating fruit counts as killing it...fruit falls from the tree so that animals will eat it and spread the seeds around.


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ZEGH8578
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15 Aug 2009, 10:15 am

eat synthetic proteine and fiber capsules

that way nobody hurts, and REM has nothing left to sing about *chuckle!*


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Janissy
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15 Aug 2009, 12:07 pm

A vegetable is only a small portion of a plant. Root vegetables, like carrots, require that you uproot the plant in order to eat them, thus killing the plant. However, vegetables with seeds (also fruits) have no purpose to the plant other than to be eaten so that the seeds can be distributed via animal waste. You don't kill the tomato vine when you pluck the tomato off it. Nor do you kill the beanstalk when you pluck the beanpod. You do wind up eating the seeds (beans, nuts) rather than distributing them, which destroys the seeds, but the beanstalk lives on. If you are going to go that next step and refrain from eating seeds because they are the plants' babies even if eating them won't kill the plant, then you really will starve to death.



ZEGH8578
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15 Aug 2009, 1:14 pm

Janissy wrote:
A vegetable is only a small portion of a plant. Root vegetables, like carrots, require that you uproot the plant in order to eat them, thus killing the plant. However, vegetables with seeds (also fruits) have no purpose to the plant other than to be eaten so that the seeds can be distributed via animal waste. You don't kill the tomato vine when you pluck the tomato off it. Nor do you kill the beanstalk when you pluck the beanpod. You do wind up eating the seeds (beans, nuts) rather than distributing them, which destroys the seeds, but the beanstalk lives on. If you are going to go that next step and refrain from eating seeds because they are the plants' babies even if eating them won't kill the plant, then you really will starve to death.


the plant is still hurt when the leafs, fruits are plucked off.

even if its not mentally hurt, as in, experiencing pain, it is picked apart. the plant is a leaf less afterwards.

some vegans refuse dairy products, cus it requires animals to be handled by humans.

now im wondering tho, isnt synthetic proteine also extracted from plants in the 1st place? or even animal scraps?


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Followthereaper90
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15 Aug 2009, 2:33 pm

your supposed to be predator, we need meat to survive...and enjoy it 8) i have theory why people made guns in hunting 1.it was easier to catch a prey 2. we enjoy hunt...that is why there has so much war


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ZEGH8578
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15 Aug 2009, 2:42 pm

Followthereaper90 wrote:
your supposed to be predator, we need meat to survive...and enjoy it 8) i have theory why people made guns in hunting 1.it was easier to catch a prey 2. we enjoy hunt...that is why there has so much war


thats pretty basic human behaviour i think :D

the evolution of guns goes pretty much as:

1. Clubs, invented by chimps today, probably 5 million years old.
2. From clubs -> Spears, invented by chimps today, probably 5 million years old.
3. From clubs -> hammers/axes. stone age.
4. Spear w a tip, stone age. Bow and arrow, dunno, probably stone age. Daggers, stone age.
5. From daggers -> swords. From arrows -> trigger fitted crossbows.
6. propelling artillery is invented w gunpowder, cannons, muskets etc. trigger mechanism invented allready.

its all facilitation in killing, hunting or war.
chimps use clubs for war.
war isnt new, its probably as old as the chimp-human split, which i about 5 million years ago.

we human _males_ just love to kill stuff :]


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dadsgotas
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15 Aug 2009, 3:04 pm

Roman wrote:

A response of a vegeterian is that you don't need to kill in order to survive, since you can survive while being a vegeterian.

Now I know that response has a logical error, namely they forgot that they kill vegies in order to eat them. But that is a different logical error from the one you are tallking about. So, if we allow them to make that error, then they are perfectly consistent with "survival" idea since you don't need to kill ANIMALS in order to survive.


I'm a vegetarian. My response is that I don't need to eat animals in order to survive. I don't forget anything, and there's no logical error: you just represented my response incorrectly.

I hope this helps.



Dianitapilla
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16 Aug 2009, 2:46 pm

But the fact is that YOU DO KILL ANIMALS even thou you don't eat them.

You see there are so much humans that if we would all become veggies thousands of forest should been devastated. actually th soy plantations are the main reason of deforestation of th amazon forest in brasil, so every time you are eating something with soy you are taking part of native animals and plants that are endangered.




dadsgotas wrote:
Roman wrote:

A response of a vegeterian is that you don't need to kill in order to survive, since you can survive while being a vegeterian.

Now I know that response has a logical error, namely they forgot that they kill vegies in order to eat them. But that is a different logical error from the one you are tallking about. So, if we allow them to make that error, then they are perfectly consistent with "survival" idea since you don't need to kill ANIMALS in order to survive.


I'm a vegetarian. My response is that I don't need to eat animals in order to survive. I don't forget anything, and there's no logical error: you just represented my response incorrectly.

I hope this helps.


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dadsgotas
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16 Aug 2009, 3:18 pm

Dianitapilla, I didn't say anything about deforestation or the environment. I said I don't need to eat animals. Now, I haven't eaten animals for at least twenty years, and I'm not dead; so there's no logical flaw in what I've said.

As it happens, I don't eat much soy, either.



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16 Aug 2009, 4:27 pm

One of the major greenhouse gases in Earth's atmosphere is methane.

Most of the methane in the atmosphere comes from cow farts - their digestive processes are quite inefficient.

STOP GLOBAL WARMING - EAT THE COWS!! !

The icecap you save could be your own!


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