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claire-333
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29 Aug 2009, 7:48 pm

Every now and then I will stumble upon a bit of information, which I find somehow important or profound, and it makes me feel I have been enlightened. However I am not sure if that is what is really happening. I mean, it is just new information; it could even be incorrect. What is enlightenment? Is enlightenment a personal and individual thing, or is it more of a broad concept such as...enlightened people know A and understand X? Is enlightenment knowledge, or is it a spiritual experience?



Awesomelyglorious
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29 Aug 2009, 8:18 pm

Enlightenment is a term for people who want to feel special, it usually relates to the perceived increase in knowledge or existence of important knowledge.

That being said, if you are cynical and skeptical enough, you will probably rarely use that term in a non-mocking manner.



Sand
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29 Aug 2009, 8:18 pm

claire333 wrote:
Every now and then I will stumble upon a bit of information, which I find somehow important or profound, and it makes me feel I have been enlightened. However I am not sure if that is what is really happening. I mean, it is just new information; it could even be incorrect. What is enlightenment? Is enlightenment a personal and individual thing, or is it more of a broad concept such as...enlightened people know A and understand X? Is enlightenment knowledge, or is it a spiritual experience?


Why must it be either or? To me enlightenment is a matter of disentangling a confused and misunderstood area which had been confused. Naturally there is a feeling of relief from the discomfort which is part of the original confusion.



claire-333
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29 Aug 2009, 9:08 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Enlightenment is a term for people who want to feel special, it usually relates to the perceived increase in knowledge or existence of important knowledge.

That being said, if you are cynical and skeptical enough, you will probably rarely use that term in a non-mocking manner.
Hey there party pooper. What have you got in that bag there? Party poop?
Nihilist. Cynical, skeptical nihilist. :D


Sand wrote:
Why must it be either or?
I am not sure if it must be, but makes more sense to me that way. I have trouble seeing how it can be different for each person, but still be a general concept for all people. I have understood enlightenment in a spiritual context to be some sort of place, a state of mind and understanding with a path leading to it, which would be different than simply gaining knowledge.

Sand wrote:
To me enlightenment is a matter of disentangling a confused and misunderstood area which had been confused. Naturally there is a feeling of relief from the discomfort which is part of the original confusion.
I have also had this experience with things I felt I had no confusion, was searching for no answer. I find this type of experience to be different than what you described because it was like shedding light. The relief you have described is like lifting weight, becoming lighter. Although I do agree they could both be considered enlightenment, and perhaps both could be considered not.



Awesomelyglorious
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29 Aug 2009, 9:50 pm

claire333 wrote:
Hey there party pooper. What have you got in that bag there? Party poop?
Nihilist. Cynical, skeptical nihilist. :D

Why yes. And I shall put the bag of party poop on fire, so that way somebody will step on the bag to put it out.

Oh yes, a nihilist indeed. But then again, if I am a nihilist, then why should I accept your claims about me being a nihilist? Obviously then I am not a nihilist, because you do not exist and I do not exist, therefore I am a realist because logic does not exist.

In any case, it is obvious that the enlightened ones deny the existence of enlightenment. After all, it is true that enlightenment does not exist, and a person who is closer to the truth is more enlightened, therefore the most enlightened individuals deny the existence of a state of enlightenment.



claire-333
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29 Aug 2009, 9:54 pm

:lmao:



phil777
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29 Aug 2009, 9:56 pm

But if logic does not exist, what you've said makes no sense, right AG? :wink: Which is guess is the point you're trying to make. <.<

My view on enlightenment is rather simple, it's mostly when i learn something or, akin to the situation Sand described, when a complex situation is made clear to me.



Awesomelyglorious
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29 Aug 2009, 10:00 pm

phil777 wrote:
But if logic does not exist, what you've said makes no sense, right AG? :wink: Which is guess is the point you're trying to make. <.<

If logic does not exist, then why doesn't what I say make sense? There is nothing in the way of it making sense at all. Therefore it makes perfect sense, like a divine revelation. Except with more cheese.



phil777
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29 Aug 2009, 10:13 pm

"Logic, from the Greek λογική (logiké)[1] is defined by the Penguin Encyclopedia to be "The formal systematic study of the principles of valid inference and correct reasoning"." (quoted from wiki)

It's not that there's nothing in the way of it making sense, it's the lack of logic which induces lack of sense (or correct reasoning, if you will). :p



Awesomelyglorious
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29 Aug 2009, 10:52 pm

phil777 wrote:
"Logic, from the Greek λογική (logiké)[1] is defined by the Penguin Encyclopedia to be "The formal systematic study of the principles of valid inference and correct reasoning"." (quoted from wiki)

It's not that there's nothing in the way of it making sense, it's the lack of logic which induces lack of sense (or correct reasoning, if you will). :p

Logically a lack of logic induces a lack of sense, however, because we aren't using logic, there is no problem.



phil777
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29 Aug 2009, 11:07 pm

Then you admit to not making sense, right? :P



Awesomelyglorious
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29 Aug 2009, 11:13 pm

phil777 wrote:
Then you admit to not making sense, right? :P

No, because I make perfect sense, and you don't have objective grounds to say otherwise. :P



phil777
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29 Aug 2009, 11:23 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Logically a lack of logic induces a lack of sense, however, because we aren't using logic, there is no problem.


What about your own words? <.< That's not objective enough for ya? If you deny this, you're rather hypocritical :P .



Awesomelyglorious
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29 Aug 2009, 11:40 pm

phil777 wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Logically a lack of logic induces a lack of sense, however, because we aren't using logic, there is no problem.


What about your own words? <.< That's not objective enough for ya? If you deny this, you're rather hypocritical :P .

My own words suggest that there is nothing wrong with me claiming that I am making sense.

Not only that, but who said that those were my words?



phil777
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29 Aug 2009, 11:44 pm

They were uttered and used by you, therefore you should claim responsibility for what you say. (ofc you could edit those words to twist reality but that wouldn't be honourable now would it?)



greenblue
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29 Aug 2009, 11:52 pm

Hmmm, well, I would relate Enlightment with Humanism, Rationalism and Empiricism, pretty much Humanism as an enlightment philosophy.


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