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What do you think
Neither of you should teach, but SHE is worse than YOU 54%  54%  [ 13 ]
Neither of you should deach, but YOU are worse than HER 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
You should be allowed to teach; she shouldn't be 33%  33%  [ 8 ]
She should be allowed to teach; you shouldn't be 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
You should both teach, but still SHE is worse than YOU 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
You should both teach, but still YOU are worse than HER 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 24

Roman
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29 Aug 2009, 8:07 pm

I just read a thread about a teacher who publically humiliated autistic kid and was not fired. Basically, she allowed his classmates to vote on whether he can continue in the class and they voted him out; she then stood him up in front of the class, and had classmates tell him everything that is wrong with him http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt106418.html

Now, that you seen a teacher who continued to teach, lets consider for a contrast someone else who was NOT allowed to teach, which is myself, and tell me who is worse. So I just completted my physics ph.d. last May. I spent 8 years in graduate school, but I was only allowed to teach during the first year. During that first year I was teaching (back in 2001, at the University of Minnesota) I was teaching a SMALL section of a big class. Since it was a freshman physics class it looked very easy to me; but a lot of students did not know tihngs like Newton's second law. So sometimes I lost patience and raised my voice as I was trying to explain it to them.

Now I was NOT losing my temper! Rather, my voice is NATURALLY loud even when I am calm. I am used to the fact that my voice is twice louder than other people's that I don't notice. Now, when I am frustrated that someone doesn't get something this problem magnifies. But again, I don't NOTICE my voice goes up; I think I am PATIENTLY explaining Newton's second law. But my voice HAPPENS to be loud as I do it, which I am not even aware of.

There were other complaints which included things like that when I was using black board I weren't looking to the class but at the blackboard. Also, I was speaking fast so it was hard to follow me, and when I was talking to students sometimes I was interrupting (again, NOT on purpose; I didn't notice I did it until after I have done that). Finally, there were complaints that I didn't take showers so there was a body odor.

Anyway the last straw that broke camel's back was when i was supposed to give them midterm, and I studied very late the previus night for my own classes, so I didn't hear the alarm clock that I put. Yes I very much DID put an alarm clock, I simply didn't hear it. Then when I got really upset I let them down, I sent an "appology" email; but because I was so upset, I include a lot of swearing in that "apology". I was NOT swearing at them; I was swearihng AT MYSELF in that email. Anyway, after both the missed midterm and swearing was reported, they decided not to let me teach again. And from that time on I was only grading papers.

Now, the other thing that you should know is that I transferred from Minnesota to Michigan in 2004. So in new school they shouldn't know anything. Right? Wrong. Somehow, from the very first semester, I was NOT given teaching; they gave me grading. Then in the summer I tried to apply for teaching position, and they called me up and said they can't let me do it because, by watching the way I interract with ppl, I might have trouble with social skills so they don't want me to act that way in front of students. Now, for all I know they DON"T know what happened in previous school -- when I asked them if they can tell me something concrete they couldn't. So they merely didn't let me teach for being awkward!

Now again, remember that woman I mentioned in the beginning who IS allowed to teach, after may be half a year of suspension? And I am the one who couldn't teach for 7 years, including the last 5 years at a different school! So NT-s clearly think that aspie awkwardness (myself) is worse than the bullies that bully them (that teacher). And appart all that, my audience was a lot less vulnerable than hers; after all I was teaching college students and she was teaching kindergarden. Yet, somehow I am still "worse". What do you think?



Last edited by Roman on 31 Aug 2009, 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

Woodpecker
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30 Aug 2009, 12:29 am

Roman wrote:
I just read a thread about a teacher who publically humiliated autistic kid and was not fired. Basically, she allowed his classmates to vote on whether he can continue in the class and they voted him out; she then stood him up in front of the class, and had classmates tell him everything that is wrong with him http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt106418.html

Now, that you seen a teacher who continued to teach, lets consider for a contrast someone else who was NOT allowed to teach, which is myself, and tell me who is worse. So I just completted my physics ph.d. last May. I spent 8 years in graduate school, but I was only allowed to teach during the first year. During that first year I was teaching (back in 2001, at the University of Minnesota) I was teaching a SMALL section of a big class. Since it was a freshman physics class it looked very easy to me; but a lot of students did not know tihngs like Newton's second law. So sometimes I lost patience and raised my voice as I was trying to explain it to them. I WAS NEVER MAD AT THEM, NOR DID I EVER TRY TO TELL SOMEONE THEY ARE STUPID OR PUT THEM DOWN; I simply didn't NOTICE my voice went up as I was trying to explain things.

There were other complaints which included things like that when I was using black board I weren't looking to the class but at the blackboard. Also, I was speaking fast so it was hard to follow me, and when I was talking to students sometimes I was interrupting (again, NOT on purpose; I didn't notice I did it until after I have done that). Finally, there were complaints that I didn't take showers so there was a body odor.

Anyway the last straw that broke camel's back was when i was supposed to give them midterm, and I studied very late the previus night for my own classes, so I didn't hear the alarm clock that I put. Yes I very much DID put an alarm clock, I simply didn't hear it. Then when I got really upset I let them down, I sent an "appology" email; but because I was so upset, I include a lot of swearing in that "apology". I was NOT swearing at them; I was swearihng AT MYSELF in that email. Anyway, after both the missed midterm and swearing was reported, they decided not to let me teach again. And from that time on I was only grading papers.

Now, the other thing that you should know is that I transferred from Minnesota to Michigan in 2004. So in new school they shouldn't know anything. Right? Wrong. Somehow, from the very first semester, I was NOT given teaching; they gave me grading. Then in the summer I tried to apply for teaching position, and they called me up and said they can't let me do it because, by watching the way I interract with ppl, I might have trouble with social skills so they don't want me to act that way in front of students. Now, for all I know they DON"T know what happened in previous school -- when I asked them if they can tell me something concrete they couldn't. So they merely didn't let me teach for being awkward!

Now again, remember that woman I mentioned in the beginning who IS allowed to teach, after may be half a year of suspension? And I am the one who couldn't teach for 7 years, including the last 5 years at a different school! So NT-s clearly think that aspie awkwardness (myself) is worse than the bullies that bully them (that teacher). And appart all that, my audience was a lot less vulnerable than hers; after all I was teaching college students and she was teaching kindergarden. Yet, somehow I am still "worse". What do you think?


I am sorry to say that based on what I know about your teaching, I would not select you to teach university students. It would not be a personal attack on you but just me trying to get the best deal for the students.

You seem to have commited some grave teaching crimes.

1. Never lose your patience with students. No matter how dimwitted or stupid you think a student is, you must remain calm. You might find something donkey easy but it does not mean that they will, their inability might make you want to roll on the floor foaming at the mouth and laughing. Do not do that, never have a laugh at the "stupid" students when they are around and be careful who you let off steam to after hours. You never know who might report back to who about what you said in the bar, over coffee, in the curry house, while hill walking etc etc.

2. The blackboard. I know that you need to look at it while you have your chalk in your hand. If I try to draw on a blackboard without looking at it then things go badly wrong. But you need to look at the class, if you have difficulty with eye contact then pretend that your favourite people (wife, GF, brother, best friend) are sitting in with them. If you do not look at the class then you will never see the hand go up of the student who has lost tract of things and needs help.

3. Talking too fast, the students can not cope with that. The typical student has an attention span of about five minutes. If you talk in the same tone of voice to a bunch of students for more than five minutes then they will switch off and be unable to absorb anything. Also if you are talking fast, or in some other way which prevents them understanding you then the attention span will be even shorter. What you need to do is to keep altering the teaching experience. Each five minutes do something different for a moment to reset the five minute clock in their heads. Show them a graph associated with the physics, maybe a photograph of something related to the physics, even things like a photo of the person in physics who discovered xyz. You can also tell them a one line factoid or story about the person who did the physics, such as Newton may have had mercury poisoning or that Galileo may have invented the pendulum clock while he was at a church service.

4. Do not butt in and interrupt, try to may attention to what the students have to say. You might discover what they do and do not know.

5. Try to keep yourself as clean as possible, try not to turn up for lessons in a messy state.

6. Make sure that you never miss a teaching event, with out a super good excuse. Also unless it is totally impossible for you to do so. Make sure that you tell someone you are about to miss a teaching event and get someone else to cover for you.

7. No swearing, it gives the impression that you are out of control. Be calm. If you get angry, upset or drunk then never send an email in that state. Wait until the next day. Then write and send the mail while sober and calm.

If you do want to get into teaching my advice is as follows. Try to do a postdoc in physics, seek and follow expert advice on teaching. You might want to go on a public speaking and teaching course. If you change employer and behave well (do not rock the boat) then you might get a second chance with the teaching. The only problem is that you will be unlikely to get a good teaching reference from the place you did your PhD.


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Callista
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30 Aug 2009, 1:22 am

Mmm... I would say, go into research, and try to dodge the teaching as much as possible. It's probably not your thing.


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30 Aug 2009, 3:20 am

Good point made by Callista. But a problem exists, at least in the university sector it is expected that a researcher should be willing and able to teach.

I think that the question of "am I suitable for teaching ?" is an important one which all teachers should ask themselves. Also ask yourself "do I want to work as a teacher ?" before you try to become one.


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30 Aug 2009, 8:11 am

I miss “neither should be allowed to teach, don’t know who is worse”. What that kindergarten teacher did was awful, I have no idea what might have caused her actions. Submitting a child to emotional torture will not be helpful in any way and I can not fathom how a professional can behave this way.

But some of the things you did weren’t any better.
I have had teachers who have gone through the topics way too fast leaving me gaping behind. Add learning disability in math and you have a pupil/student who will not pass, or just barely pass with insufficient knowledge to go on in said subject, if they’re anything like me.
Losing your temper is one of the biggest no-nos a teacher can commit. I have had big problems with math since elementary school. I always felt stupid when I had to admit that I didn’t understand. If any of my teachers had lost his/her temper and yelled at me for not understanding… I don’t even know how I would’ve handled that, other than very poorly.



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30 Aug 2009, 9:14 am

Roman wrote:
So I just completted my physics ph.d. last May. I spent 8 years in graduate school, but I was only allowed to teach during the first year. During that first year I was teaching (back in 2001, at the University of Minnesota) I was teaching a SMALL section of a big class. Since it was a freshman physics class it looked very easy to me; but a lot of students did not know tihngs like Newton's second law. So sometimes I lost patience and raised my voice as I was trying to explain it to them. I WAS NEVER MAD AT THEM, NOR DID I EVER TRY TO TELL SOMEONE THEY ARE STUPID OR PUT THEM DOWN; I simply didn't NOTICE my voice went up as I was trying to explain things.


Well, even those that DO know newtons second law may not know it by that name! Frankly, I would have considered many of newtons laws a GIVEN!

Roman wrote:
There were other complaints which included things like that when I was using black board I weren't looking to the class but at the blackboard.


If you enunciate CLEARLY that is one thing. Otherwise, it is a WASTE OF TIME!

Roman wrote:
Also, I was speaking fast so it was hard to follow me, and when I was talking to students sometimes I was interrupting (again, NOT on purpose; I didn't notice I did it until after I have done that).


Intent is NOT important. You wasted their time.

Roman wrote:
Finally, there were complaints that I didn't take showers so there was a body odor.


Then you shouldn't have been there.

Roman wrote:
Anyway the last straw that broke camel's back was when i was supposed to give them midterm, and I studied very late the previus night for my own classes, so I didn't hear the alarm clock that I put. Yes I very much DID put an alarm clock, I simply didn't hear it.


HEY, some woould fire you JUST for that!

Roman wrote:
Then when I got really upset I let them down, I sent an "appology" email; but because I was so upset, I include a lot of swearing in that "apology". I was NOT swearing at them; I was swearihng AT MYSELF in that email. Anyway, after both the missed midterm and swearing was reported, they decided not to let me teach again. And from that time on I was only grading papers.


Appearance is EVERYTHING!

Roman wrote:
Now, the other thing that you should know is that I transferred from Minnesota to Michigan in 2004. So in new school they shouldn't know anything. Right? Wrong. Somehow, from the very first semester, I was NOT given teaching; they gave me grading. Then in the summer I tried to apply for teaching position, and they called me up and said they can't let me do it because, by watching the way I interract with ppl, I might have trouble with social skills so they don't want me to act that way in front of students. Now, for all I know they DON"T know what happened in previous school -- when I asked them if they can tell me something concrete they couldn't. So they merely didn't let me teach for being awkward!


Actually, they SHOULD have known! It is WELL KNOWN that a transcript follows you EVERYWHERE. How can you go to college and not know that?

Roman wrote:
Now again, remember that woman I mentioned in the beginning who IS allowed to teach, after may be half a year of suspension? And I am the one who couldn't teach for 7 years, including the last 5 years at a different school! So NT-s clearly think that aspie awkwardness (myself) is worse than the bullies that bully them (that teacher). And appart all that, my audience was a lot less vulnerable than hers; after all I was teaching college students and she was teaching kindergarden. Yet, somehow I am still "worse". What do you think?


ALL are bullies. YOU apparently want to be a bully. Why should they let YOU be a bully any more than the other? BTW college IS at a higher standard. If you want to teach kindergarten, they probably WILL let you!



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30 Aug 2009, 10:27 am

2ukenkerl wrote:
Roman wrote:
So I just completted my physics ph.d. last May. I spent 8 years in graduate school, but I was only allowed to teach during the first year. During that first year I was teaching (back in 2001, at the University of Minnesota) I was teaching a SMALL section of a big class. Since it was a freshman physics class it looked very easy to me; but a lot of students did not know tihngs like Newton's second law. So sometimes I lost patience and raised my voice as I was trying to explain it to them. I WAS NEVER MAD AT THEM, NOR DID I EVER TRY TO TELL SOMEONE THEY ARE STUPID OR PUT THEM DOWN; I simply didn't NOTICE my voice went up as I was trying to explain things.


Well, even those that DO know newtons second law may not know it by that name! Frankly, I would have considered many of newtons laws a GIVEN!


When teaching assume very little, I think that the majority of the population does not know Newton’s laws by heart.

I would say that the first two laws can be summed up by

F = ma

While the third law can be summed up by

"for every force there is an equal force operating in the opposite direction"

For an isolated system the sum of the momentum before and after an event is equal. For instance a car sliding on ice crashing into another car on ice would be a good example of this, and on the microscopic size the recoil of an atomic nucleus after it emits an alpha particle.

Some years ago an experiment was done with German bar maids, they work in the following way. They collect jugs and glasses of beer from the bar and deliver these to the tables where the drinkers are sitting. They also tend to rush about and they soon learn not spill much beer. So you would expect them to have a good understanding of the way that liquids in cylinders (beer glasses) behave.

Wrong ! They were shown drawings of beer glasses and they were asked to imagine that they were standing still and holding the glasses. They were asked to draw a line to indicate the surface of the beer. Many of them drew a line which was perpendicular to the sides of the cylinder which is the beer glass. Wrong, they should have drawn horizontal lines.

You might expect the students to know something, and maybe 9 times out of 10 they might know it. But once in a while you will find a student who does not know it or can not do it. The way you deal with this student will be one of the most important things which define how good a teacher you are. You have a choice……

A. You can be a bastard and be mean to the student, maybe humiliate him or her. You might even think that all of (insert stereotype) are thick or poorly educated, worse still you might open your mouth and say it.

Or

B. You can make an effort to fix the problem with the students lack of understanding or knowledge. There are lots of ways to do it, you might direct them to a book which will help them, you might explain it to them and there are other options.

OK I freely admit that getting things wrong or discovering that there is a short coming in my self is not enjoyable, but discovering the problem while there is still time to fix it before the exam or test is much better than discovering during the exam the problem.


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Roman
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30 Aug 2009, 11:30 am

Woodpecker wrote:

If you do want to get into teaching my advice is as follows. Try to do a postdoc in physics, seek and follow expert advice on teaching. You might want to go on a public speaking and teaching course.


I AM doing postdoc right now, and it does not require teaching.

Callista wrote:
Mmm... I would say, go into research, and try to dodge the teaching as much as possible. It's probably not your thing.


I AM into research -- that is my main passion. But this doesn't change the fact that them not having allowed me to teach have really screwed me over financially.

Skilpadde wrote:
Losing your temper is one of the biggest no-nos a teacher can commit. .


I didn't lose my temper. I was TIHNKING I was patiently explaining Newton's second law; but my voice HAPPENED to be lowd as I did that. I didn't even know my voice was lowd -- which is in fact one of my problems. When I talk in general my voice is twice lowder than other's, but I am not aware of it because I am too used to hearing my own voice. Well, when I try to explain something I perceive as VERY EASY, that problem magnifies and my voice is EVEN lowder; and again I am not aware of that!

Now the same goes for interrupting. I don't do that on purpose either. It is NATURAL for me to interrupt, it happens without thinking; and I only realize I did that after I had interrupted.

This being said, don't you see that not letting me teach is the same as discriminating against Asperger. Because that is what Asperger is, when you do something without meaning to. Now, I know most of you on tihs board are NOT in favor of discriminating against Asperger. So are you saying that my Asperger is more severe than most people's, so in most cases Asperger should not be discriminated against, but in a rare case when Asperger is as severe as mine, it should be?

Severity of my Asperger is something I was puzzled over ever since 1997 when I went to Brina Siegel and then my mom told me that she told her that I am one of the MILDER cases; in fact, I am milder than 99.5% of other aspies. But if I am so mild, then how come everyone have friends and I don't? And ESPECIALLY how come so many ppl say Aspies shouldn't be discriminated against, and yet I am ALWAYS an exception to that rule? It almost seems like I am so severe that no one met another aspie as severe as me, which is why I have the symptoms you guys never saw before, so you don't even consider putting it in the same category as the symptoms YOU posess when you try to defend the rights of aspies.



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30 Aug 2009, 12:17 pm

The key? Your MOM told you you were a "mild case". An uninvolved observer may have a different opinion.

From what I can tell, you are probably somewhere in the moderate range as far as socializing is concerned, as I've seen about equally many people with more problems and people with less. That doesn't mean a whole lot to your general outlook because, like any AS, you can learn what you don't know. And you are making mistakes that NT teachers make, too; for example, I once had a physics professor who didn't know how to explain things anywhere below a doctoral level; he was teaching sophomore physics classes and the average score on his tests was something like a 65%... he is, as far as physics profs go anyway, NT... and he does not belong in a classroom; he belongs in a laboratory. They make him teach anyway, and he and his students all get frustrated for it.

It seems to me like your main problem is the financial side of things, as teaching makes up a lot of your income while you are doing research; is that right? Is there some other way to get money? I know things are really tight right now as far as grants are concerned; they are at my school, anyway--and it says something that I'm feeling the pinch as an undergrad who doesn't even depend on grants (though the people at the lab where I'm working on a project do depend on them). Are there other things you could do, though? Does anybody need an assistant, or any programs that need organizing, or something of that sort?... I dunno what the gaps are in the work force at your university, but you may be able to trade teaching duties for something else. I got my undergrad research thing because I am willing to do statistical analysis (love doing it, in fact) and the people in this particular toxicology lab prefer biology to math. :) Maybe there is something you're good at that other people don't like...


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30 Aug 2009, 12:47 pm

Well Roman, I am glad for you that you have found an opening as a postdoc. I hope that it is good for you.

Still bear in mind that if you improve your teaching abilities that it may help you get on, the thing about postdocing is that you need an end plan. A postdoc can be a useful way of getting into industry or an academic post at a university.


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30 Aug 2009, 12:47 pm

Roman wrote:
This being said, don't you see that not letting me teach is the same as discriminating against Asperger. Because that is what Asperger is, when you do something without meaning to. Now, I know most of you on tihs board are NOT in favor of discriminating against Asperger. So are you saying that my Asperger is more severe than most people's, so in most cases Asperger should not be discriminated against, but in a rare case when Asperger is as severe as mine, it should be?


Having a disability doesn't entitle us to do whatever we want to, whether we're capable or not. Rejecting someone who's wheelchair-bound, who applies for a job as a hod-carrier, isn't discrimination: they can't do the job.

It looks like the other teacher shouldn't be teaching, either. If the same individuals allowed her to work and not you, that could be seen as discriminatory; but expecting that someone owes you a job you can't do properly just because someone else somewhere has a job she doesn't do well isn't reasonable.

Sorry.

I have it easy (or lucky). I struggle socially at work, but I work in an area where performance is both paramount and easily measured, and my performance is outstanding.

There might be things you can do to help yourself. It might be too late to overcompensate, as I have since I was young, by becoming obsessive about timekeeping - so get a REALLY LOUD alarm clock. Make personal hygiene part of your routine. Study acting techniques, to control your voice. Listen to the advice people are giving here: instead of explaining how you couldn't help swearing inappropriately, accept that you had a choice. Above all, stop telling yourself you can't help it, and find out how much of it you actually can help.

If you really want to be a teacher, make it your obsession: study it until you're the best teacher on the planet. People like us have that kind of potential. Then, if you can't find the work within an institution, look for other avenues: private tutelage, or evening classes, for instance.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh. You seem to be saying that you should be given work you don't deserve (educating children, where you could do genuine harm), just because you have AS, and you're wrong.



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30 Aug 2009, 2:50 pm

The teacher from the other thread did worse than you because there is NO EXCUSE to ever subject a child to that kind of public humiliation. Even if that kid didn't have AS, the emotional trauma from what he was subjected to could cripple his emotional development for years to come.

Now, your failure....

"So sometimes I lost patience and raised my voice as I was trying to explain it to them."

"There were other complaints which included things like that when I was using black board I weren't looking to the class but at the blackboard. Also, I was speaking fast so it was hard to follow me, and when I was talking to students sometimes I was interrupting."

"I include a lot of swearing in that 'apology'."

All of these things indicate that you do not do well dealing with people. In college, the students are ultimately your employer. You don't have to hand them stuff on a silver platter, but if they feel they can't learn from your teaching style, they will choose to not take classes where you teach. That makes you counterproductive as an instructor at the college.

Even if all of these shortcomings were the result of your AS, if you can't overcome the worst of them (there is no acceptable way to swear in an e-mail to your students) and come across in a way that students can effectively learn from you (if you're always interrupting your students, you're being counterproductive), then you simply are not "fit" to do the requirements of the job.

I don't know if the new school heard from the old school and kept you from having a teaching opportunity, but it is clear that your AS symptoms are a barrier to being an effective teacher. If you are formally diagnosed with AS, they can try and make some accommodations, but if you can't rein in the negative factors AS has on your teaching style, the ADA won't matter. You can't make students attend your class or give you good reviews as an instructor, and that is what determines if you have a job in that capacity.

If you want to get into more than just grading papers, get an official DX for AS and use that to (1) get vocational coaching to learn to better control the negative effects of AS on your teaching and interpersonal skills. Then (2) confront your employer for a chance to move into what you are trained for. They could give you a "supervised" teaching position where you are more closely monitored to see if you can carry yourself professionally when dealing with a class and then move on to letting you go solo.

I'd like to think some of the incidents you wrote about happened because you never knew these issues were a problem.

For what it's worth, I've had some ugly job interviews and after that I know the people who considered me for the job went about badmouthing me so that others would not hire me. It's hard to imagine that one bad experience can color what happens over the next 10-20 years, but we never realize how far some events carry forth into the future.



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30 Aug 2009, 3:22 pm

Roman wrote:
Severity of my Asperger is something I was puzzled over ever since 1997 when I went to Brina Siegel and then my mom told me that she told her that I am one of the MILDER cases; in fact, I am milder than 99.5% of other aspies. But if I am so mild, then how come everyone have friends and I don't? And ESPECIALLY how come so many ppl say Aspies shouldn't be discriminated against, and yet I am ALWAYS an exception to that rule? It almost seems like I am so severe that no one met another aspie as severe as me, which is why I have the symptoms you guys never saw before, so you don't even consider putting it in the same category as the symptoms YOU posess when you try to defend the rights of aspies.


Bryna Seigal is notably weird about severity. She has an extremely conservative view, i.e. if someone has ever had a friend she considers that a rule-out for AS. Same for marriage. She also makes it a point of pride to "undiagnose" people she doesn't think are severe enough. I think she considers 'rainman' to be very high functioning.

Honestly, if you've managed a PhD it's surprising she'd dx you at all. I'd bet by normal standards you're probably pretty obviously/moderately AS, not slightly like she was saying. Years ago I called UCSF about an evaluation, and the response I got was that if you can dial the phone and ask about it, then you're not AS.

My unprofessional opinion is that she it outside the mainstream in her views.


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Last edited by Apple_in_my_Eye on 30 Aug 2009, 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

2ukenkerl
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30 Aug 2009, 3:23 pm

Roman wrote:
Woodpecker wrote:

If you do want to get into teaching my advice is as follows. Try to do a postdoc in physics, seek and follow expert advice on teaching. You might want to go on a public speaking and teaching course.


I AM doing postdoc right now, and it does not require teaching.


Who said it did? Did you see the REST of the advice?

Roman wrote:
Callista wrote:
Mmm... I would say, go into research, and try to dodge the teaching as much as possible. It's probably not your thing.


I AM into research -- that is my main passion. But this doesn't change the fact that them not having allowed me to teach have really screwed me over financially.


SO WHAT!?!?!? The money is supposed to be COMPENSATION, NOT something to help you financially. And do you even have a work permit?

Roman wrote:
Skilpadde wrote:
Losing your temper is one of the biggest no-nos a teacher can commit. .


I didn't lose my temper. I was TIHNKING I was patiently explaining Newton's second law; but my voice HAPPENED to be lowd as I did that. I didn't even know my voice was lowd -- which is in fact one of my problems. When I talk in general my voice is twice lowder than other's, but I am not aware of it because I am too used to hearing my own voice. Well, when I try to explain something I perceive as VERY EASY, that problem magnifies and my voice is EVEN lowder; and again I am not aware of that!

Now the same goes for interrupting. I don't do that on purpose either. It is NATURAL for me to interrupt, it happens without thinking; and I only realize I did that after I had interrupted.


AGAIN, if it affects THEM then, welll...

Roman wrote:
This being said, don't you see that not letting me teach is the same as discriminating against Asperger. Because that is what Asperger is, when you do something without meaning to. Now, I know most of you on tihs board are NOT in favor of discriminating against Asperger. So are you saying that my Asperger is more severe than most people's, so in most cases Asperger should not be discriminated against, but in a rare case when Asperger is as severe as mine, it should be?


YOU are discriminating against THEM because you expect the students in your class to SUFFER! ALSO, AS does NOT affect EVERYTHING that way! MAYBE voice attributes, but NOT everything. PLEASE don't even try to go there.

Still, for several reasons, I think you were brought up in india. RIGHT!? If so, you probably should NOT teach at this time. There are a LOT of things in the english language that indians just do WRONG, and students have ENOUGH to worry about.
ALSO, if you do not have a work permit/visa and you are not a US citizen, it is ILLEGAL for you to work in the US.

Roman wrote:
Severity of my Asperger is something I was puzzled over ever since 1997 when I went to Brina Siegel and then my mom told me that she told her that I am one of the MILDER cases; in fact, I am milder than 99.5% of other aspies. But if I am so mild, then how come everyone have friends and I don't? And ESPECIALLY how come so many ppl say Aspies shouldn't be discriminated against, and yet I am ALWAYS an exception to that rule? It almost seems like I am so severe that no one met another aspie as severe as me, which is why I have the symptoms you guys never saw before, so you don't even consider putting it in the same category as the symptoms YOU posess when you try to defend the rights of aspies.


It IS interesting, as most Indian cultures seem to do things like prearrange marriages. As for your being milder? NOBODY can tell you that since it is impossible to say since so many are misdiagnosed. Still, having few, if any, friends is common. The voice problem is apparently common. To this day, I have it to a degree. the interrupting thing is common. To this day I have it to a degree. You have some other problems some here said were somewhat common, but I don't have them.

Still, your biggest problems appear to be attitude, possibly dialect, and hygeine. and YEAH, EXPECT information to follow you. Even when you are WORKING, they will call references.



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30 Aug 2009, 3:35 pm

Callista wrote:
The key? Your MOM told you you were a "mild case". An uninvolved observer may have a different opinion.


My mom doesn't think I am mild. She probably thinks I am even MORE severe than I really am, given how she is overprotective. But, back in 1997 she LIED to me she thought I was mild because she didn't want me to be upset. But now she quoted some professional telling her I was mild. And that makes me wonder: she can lie about her own opinion, but would she really lie about what she was told?

Callista wrote:
From what I can tell, you are probably somewhere in the moderate range as far as socializing is concerned, as I've seen about equally many people with more problems and people with less.


If I am in the middle range, how come other aspies can do things I can not. I mean most of you would defend the rights of other aspies; but in my case somehow it is not okay to teach. So this tells me that I am way BELOW the middle.

Callista wrote:
And you are making mistakes that NT teachers make, too; for example, I once had a physics professor who didn't know how to explain things anywhere below a doctoral level; he was teaching sophomore physics classes and the average score on his tests was something like a 65%... he is, as far as physics profs go anyway, NT... and he does not belong in a classroom; he belongs in a laboratory. They make him teach anyway, and he and his students all get frustrated for it..


So how come they let HIM teach but not me? So it is some extra thing such as I LOOK weird and he doesn't, and that is plain unfair.

dadsgotas wrote:
Having a disability doesn't entitle us to do whatever we want to, whether we're capable or not. Rejecting someone who's wheelchair-bound, who applies for a job as a hod-carrier, isn't discrimination: they can't do the job.


But in case of Asperger a lot of it is self-fulfilling prophecy. For example, the reason people with Asperger "can not" socialize is that others judge them too fast and don't let them. On the other hand, people on a wheelchair can not walk regarldess of other people's attitude or criteria. If on another planet most people were aspies and NT were to wonder in, then the NT will be "disabled" one since he would be the one judged for the differences. On the other hand, in the case of wheelchair the disabled one can not walk regardless of the planet. I didn't have problem with temper, my voice simply HAPPENED to be lowd. So if others were not JUDGING this as temper, but instead tried to understand that I am "different" then everything would have been fine.

dadsgotas wrote:
It looks like the other teacher shouldn't be teaching, either. If the same individuals allowed her to work and not you, that could be seen as discriminatory; but expecting that someone owes you a job you can't do properly just because someone else somewhere has a job she doesn't do well isn't reasonable.


True, it is not the same job that hires; but still it is the same STATISTICS. Statistically speaking, NT-s who happened to be jerks do better than aspies. That can be verified by a number of tihngs, from dating where "nice guys finish last" to jobs where ppl like that other teacher can keep a job since she is "part of a flock". Aspies, on the other hand, have to suffer since they are "outsiders".

dadsgotas wrote:
There might be things you can do to help yourself. It might be too late to overcompensate, as I have since I was young, by becoming obsessive about timekeeping - so get a REALLY LOUD alarm clock.


Actually it might only be two or three times A YEAR when I wouldn't hear an alarm clock. So it was just a really bad luck it happened on the day of the midterm.

dadsgotas wrote:
instead of explaining how you couldn't help swearing inappropriately, accept that you had a choice.


I never said I couldn't help swearing. The only thing I was talking about was lowd voice. The swearing incident WAS my choice; but that was only ONE insident. On the other hand, the dozens incidents when my voice happened to be lowd was NOT my choice.

dadsgotas wrote:
If you really want to be a teacher, make it your obsession.


I want to be a researcher, not a teacher. On the other hand, of course, teaching usually "goes in the package" since professors in most schools are supposed to teach. There are ways around it, such as working in Research Institute. But that would cut down options quite a bit, since the competition for professorship is very high as it is, so I should be applying everywhere I see an opening, and not limit myself to FEW places where I don't have to teach.

But then again, that is not something I have to worry about for the next few years. I just started postdoc in India (no teaching involved) and I have 2-3 years to be here; then I have to do another postdoc before becomming a professor, so I probably have plenty of time before I have to worry about teaching.

However, even if it didn't affect my career, I am upset AT THE PRINCIPLE that they won't let me teach, while they DID let that woman teach. That woman did something really malicious ON PURPOSE, while I didn't do anything on purpose. Yet she can teach and I can not. That pattern goes way beyond teaching: in general, jerks are accepted as "part of the flock" no matter how mean they are, while aspies are rejected for their differences, even though their differences are neutral.

zer0netgain wrote:
If you are formally diagnosed with AS, they can try and make some accommodations


I AM formally diagnosed, and they know it. But it seems like the fact that they know I am diagnosed is what stood in my way. They decided that since this is part of my Asperger, I can't fix it, so they shouldn't give me a chance to fix. And that was very unfair. For example, their assumption that my looking at blackboard and not at the class was due to problems with eye contact is plain wrong. I was simply too lazy to turn around and that is it; but they kept asking me if it is "painful" for me to look at student's eyes.

zer0netgain wrote:
For what it's worth, I've had some ugly job interviews and after that I know the people who considered me for the job went about badmouthing me so that others would not hire me. It's hard to imagine that one bad experience can color what happens over the next 10-20 years, but we never realize how far some events carry forth into the future.


Well, don't you think it is shallow that people talk about you behind your back. As they say "great minds and hearts talk about ideas and feelings, average minds and hearts talk about weather and events, small minds and hearts talk about other people and criticize them behind their backs".

And also, how come that teacher who actually *DID* something wrong, has to only wait half a year suspension, while you have to suffer SEVERAL years, when you didn't even DO anything other than making a bad IMPRESSION. So subjective "impression" superceeds actions!

And also think of this. Interview can have two outcomes: good or bad. So yours happened to be bad, so what? Why is it so amaizing that they have to go and tell the world about it? On the other hand, what that teacher did IS amaizing, but no one told the world about what SHE did.