My Brother is calling me a racist for being Anti Zionist

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Chronos
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24 Sep 2010, 12:11 am

protest_the_hero wrote:
Zionism is completely based on racial nationalism. The idea of "God's chosen people" is racism disguised in religion. Without the religious claims behind it, zionism would have no moral justification at all. As far as I'm concerned, zionism has no moral justification at all. I blame the media for all these irrational views imposed on us.


"God's chosen people" is a concept which is misunderstood not only by the majority of people in the world but even the majority of jews in the world.

It is not a proclaimation that jews in any sense of the word are somehow above everyone else in the eyes of God. It is to be taken in the sense that the Israelites were chosen to follow a bunch of rules, while everyone else only had to follow a few.

That being said, the Israelites, and modern jews, were not and are not a race. In fact, the Israelites out of Egypt were a heterogeneous group and "aliens" amongst them were required to follow the same laws as natural born Israelites, and it's likely that these aliens were absorbed into the group.

Modern day zionists may feel more justified in their battle by the promise in the Torah, but that takes a back seat to the current conflict between Israel and Palestine today.

Your average young Israeli is secular, likes going to the movies, going to the beach, hanging out with friends, and shopping. They also hate being blown up and bombed.

Your average young Palestinian would like to go to the movies, would like to go to the beach, and would like to hang out with friends, and also hates being blown up and bombed.

You see in this context the past, and who started what, is actually irrelevant. Most Israelis were born in Israel and Israel is all they know. It's their home. Most Palestinians were born in the same region, it's all they know, and it's also their home. Most of them, Israeli and Palestinian are just unwitting pawns stuck on a battle field having to fight a battle neither of them really would rather not have to fight.



Benny123
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24 Sep 2010, 4:35 am

protest_the_hero wrote:
Zionism is completely based on racial nationalism. The idea of "God's chosen people" is racism disguised in religion. Without the religious claims behind it, zionism would have no moral justification at all. As far as I'm concerned, zionism has no moral justification at all. I blame the media for all these irrational views imposed on us.


The Zionist movement was largely irreligious and didn't look for religion to give it a moral justification-the major moral justification it had was the current status of Jews in Europe which soon went downhill culminating in the Holocaust.

The idea of "God's chosen people" is something that all religious people have. They all believe they're following the "correct," or "chosen" religion. There have always been converts to Judaism, too.

And for anyone saying Jewish people can't be anti-Semitic, run a Google search for Dan Burros and Bobby Fischer.



LKL
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24 Sep 2010, 2:03 pm

Jacoby wrote:
I was with you until you said you support Ahmedinejad.

QFT

Ahmedinejad is a nutjob.



puddingmouse
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24 Sep 2010, 8:06 pm

Benny123 wrote:

And for anyone saying Jewish people can't be anti-Semitic, run a Google search for Dan Burros and Bobby Fischer.


Wasn't Bobby Fischer thought to have psychological problems during his antisemitic period (other than just probably having AS)?

A lot of Jew-hatred seems to be very paranoid. The worst Jew-haters play the victim card as much as Jews are alleged to do. They're like,
'Why won't anyone believe me when I SAY JEWS CONTROL THE MEDIA AND THE WORLD?'

I think the Anti-Zionist movement doesn't do itself any favours by keeping such people in its ranks. I can honestly say I haven't got strongly-felt opinions on the Arab-Israeli conflict, although I did study it quite a long time ago. I do theoretically disagree with the State of Israel, but I'm too pragmatic to argue that it should not exist now. I don't like what is done in the name of Zionism, but I won't support the anti-Zionist movement because, honestly, the more bug-eyed element of that movement puts me off. The bug-eyed element is pretty large, from what I saw on campus when I was at uni.



Chronos
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24 Sep 2010, 10:05 pm

Bobby Fischer had paranoid schizophrenia.



Werecrocodile
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25 Sep 2010, 8:05 am

A world filled with hate is empowering.



oliver93
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27 Sep 2010, 5:00 pm

wait wait wait wait... hold up... Zionist's are a race?



ruveyn
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27 Sep 2010, 6:12 pm

oliver93 wrote:
wait wait wait wait... hold up... Zionist's are a race?


Zionism is a religious and political thing. It is not racial.

ruveyn



quiet_dove
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27 Sep 2010, 6:21 pm

Zionism, is, in my opinion, dangerous. Israelis are just as capable of being terrorists as Palestinians are, and to ignore that is to let thousands of innocent Palestinians die for no reason at all, other than blind allegiance to Israel. Anyone with a heart would not (and should not) be okay with that.