speed of light

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Inventor wrote: [quote] The larger view is the clocks were correct in all cases, they were just moving out of the gravity well where time slows. Quartz time keeping is based on the movement of a wave, and that changes as it moves out of the gravity well. [/quote]


A strong gravity source like a black hole consumes most of the energy from a photon (light), this effects it's velocity. A black hole has a strong gravity source, since the velocity of light is reduced so must the rate of entropy on it's surface.

So

Time slows down near a stonger gravity source, and since gravity is an inverse square law (it strength decreases from the centre). Then the rate of entropy must increase near the surface of a gravity source, or time dilation must increase nearer to a gravity source and not away.
The frequncy of the quartz crystal would be effected but with very subtle results, so would it's velocity through space.

A Black Hole is an exceptional gravity well, strong enough to capture light. Even our sun has been shown to bend it, and considering the local speed of light, that must be a strong force.

Hence light leaving the sun must be moving slower than what we observe on earth. Newton's inverse square was making the math fit what could be seen. We have nothing to measure time with but clocks, and the Mars missions did fail, and the outer planet mission did get behind time.

Neither gravity or speed would account for this. Time is the slippery part of this. We know nothing about it. Gravity we can see. We cannot block it or increase it. That it has in common with time.

That light can be captured by a black hole, bent by our sun, shows that light coming out of a gravity well is speeding up. First slowed by the gravity, the speed we know passing earth, and I would like to do the same experiments on Mars.

If the speed of light is not a universal constant, we have some math to redo.

Then there are the bad clocks that seem to follow the inverse square in some ways. They did not drop off as quickly as gravity, but the same pattern. They were earth made, so might only show part.

Gravity does show that it drops off to a null point between the stars. It seems light would reach it's highest speed there. Then of course, if it was heading to a black hole, even faster.

In that background I do not see time remaining a constant.

Local measurement does not seem a universal constant for anything.

A black hole "captures" light because the escape velocity from the event horizon of the singularity is greater than the speed of light - the path of the light is bent back upon itself. (Technically, some of the photons do manage to escape, but in the process, energy loss causes the wavelength of the light to stretch out until it's very nearly undetectable - the long-wavelength radiation gets swamped out by the radio-frequency flux of our galaxy itself.)

The pathways of photons can be bent by nearly any mass - the greater the mass, the greater the bend. This can be used in deep-space observations, through a process known as "gravitational lensing" (the only problem with it is that it requires one to have a galactic mass in just the right spot, and obviously we can't put those there at will).

This has nothing to do with light's speed - just the path it can follow through space/time (which is distorted by mass). The speed is still a constant in a given medium. (The most popular figure for lightspeed is that in a vacuum - it is lower in an atmosphere, or in water, but it is still the only speed that a massless particle can exist at.)

Incidentally, the timepieces used to confirm Einstein's speculation about gravitational/acceleration equivalence and its effect on the passage of time did not use anything so crude as quartz - they used atomic decay to measure time. You don't check for tiny variances in space/time with a Rolex, after all...

In today's news, Ring around the Solar System.

It seems that out at the edge of the gravity well where light meets dark, there is a pileup of energy.

Somehow the light of the Sun becomes a sticky mess that just hangs there. The article called for some new Physics.

This stuff seems to be made of incoming from the stars, and outgoing sun light.

The ring is also crooked, being affected by the gravity of the universe, at least the local part, rather than the sun.

It came as a surprise for no one has ever predicted that there was an edge to the gravity well, and conditions beyond were very different.

For light to stop, which is what they are seeing, then time would also have to stop.

They tried to explain it as light being charged, hitting netural particles of deep space, and forming Ions, which then just hang out.

For earth science the void is not supposed to be made of Void Particles.

Some very interesting results from the edge.

Outgoing light hits incoming light and forms high energy gunk that just hangs there?

They did mention it is two billion miles away, so there is the edge of the Physics we know.

Beyond this line there is no gravity or time.

Correction, it is ten billion miles out.

I have been listening to science nonsense all my life, which is updated to the latest non sense.

One was, there is nothing out there.

The article says the Voyager probes hit some kind of a shock wave there.

Now they want to plant a NASA flag there, and claim they always knew.

I will go with the guy who said if an idea does not sound impossible, it has little chance of being true.

Science changes it's story as often as the church did, each time claiming new instructions from above.

It is all still Earth Centric, what is measured here must be true for all time, in all time, in all parts of the universe, black holes excepted.

We can see that gravity is a curve, and where it ends it scrapes against nothing, and makes sparks.

Both Voyagers hit a shock wave, never mentioned till now? It did not fit the program, so it was ignored?

I am also a fan of the E=MC2 guy's best friend, Immanuel Velikovsky. He brought up a lot of evidence that did not fit the then view of the facts.

When his book came out Continental Drift was denied, the gradual school controlled Geology, and his evidence of sudden changes were compared to the Communist Revolution. Science claimed the world was just like god made it in 4004 BC, and nothing would change.

He may not have gotten it all right, but his questions did lead to change.

We know the speed of light in a controlled lab on earth, it would not be that hard to check it by running the same experiment out around Pluto, and beyond the shock wave.

I would expect the Voyager clocks slowed down and then almost stopped, and it was blamed on the batteries. They almost stopped just as they hit the shock wave?

The speed of light is a constant as energy and gravity travel at the same speed, it may well be the highest speed that can be reached in the universe, but it is measured in time, and we have no way of knowing. Gravity ends.

So maybe it is not a sticky gooey mass of congealed light, but it is a ribbon of high energy, and where there was supposed to be nothing. It is just where we could use a boost getting out of here.

It is also right where I said time would end, if it was like gravity. It is where true space begins, that stuff that fills most of the universe. Two probes that missed the ribbon reported a shock wave at the same distance.

With our earth bound current state of knowledge it is impossible to cross between the stars, energy needed, time, the speed of light, which measures the distance. I doubt the universe runs on earth time. Hence I doubt the speed of light, and the distance to the stars.

Every thing I have said about the Mars Probes, outer planet, and now Voyager, were minor reports of malfunction, where I think they are the result worth knowing.

When you are out to prove what you know to be true, everything else is a malfunction.

Inventor, the heliopause is not a place where time "pauses". It is the location at which the pressure of the solar wind is balanced by the "light pressure" from the rest of the galaxy. It's sometimes (inaccurately) referred to as the "solar bow shock". Space/time continues at its usual rate on both sides of the heliopause.

Pioneer 10 did cross the heliopause a few years back; Voyager I crossed it last year, IIRC, and since its velocity is greater than that of Pioneer 10, it's now the furthest manmade object from Earth.

It is the edge. One thing ends, another starts, and "Light pressure" from the nearest stars, which are light years away, confine the Heliosphere. So there is a shock wave when something passes from the Heilosphere into light from light years away. But the Sun, only 10 billion miles away, stops here.

Termination shock, an interstellar medium, where the energy of the Sun stops, due to striking the interstellar medium, which brings back the Either, which fills the void.

This is worse than my congealed light.

Interstellar space is not supposed to have a medium, but to be a void, and light pressure from light years away is a minor force.

A shock wave caused by striking an intersteller medium would say it was thicker than what it was leaving, denser than the Solar System Or that the edge has formed a rind, part of the Heliosphere, where it is denser.

Do you have any idea how much medium it would take to fill intersteller space?

Anything times a few billion cubic light years of space would exceed the mass of the Universe.

There is an edge to the gravity well, we know a ribbon of energy has piled up there.

Particles from the Solar Wind should break free of gravity there, and enter a less dense Interstellar space.

The ribbon of energy is under the control of the Galactic gravity. So perhaps a shock wave caused by gravity shear? This would not involve "light pressure" or "Interstellar medium"

Gravity shear like the movement of two air bodies will impart energy to the medium between them, such as tornados are produced.

While this could explain the ribbon, the energy at the edge, it does not follow that time is the same on both sides of the line.

At least Pioneer 10 and Voyager I did cross and continue, there is space, but it's nature is yet to be defined.

Actually the interstellar medium is not that dense. It mostly consists of gas and dust that exists between the stars and is less dense than even the best vacuums that we can create in vacuum chambers on Earth. Additionally, Some regions in the Milky Way Galaxy are more dense than others. Also, space-time is the same on both sides of the heliopause. The termination shock has nothing to do with that. See the following for more information on the interstellar medium:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_medium.

Inventor, you seem to misunderstand relativity. According to relativity theory all speed are relatives, except for the speed of light who is the only absolute. The bending of the light near the sun also had been one of the prediction of the relativity and had been the first thing tested about it. I'm pretty sure the scientists take that in account in their calculations. And their calculations ARE GOOD. Sending probes on others planets is like trying to shot a fliyng golf ball hundred of yards away with a sling shot. The fact that most missions are succesfull show that the theory are pretty solids.

A gravity well don't just STOP. Gravity is expanding infinitely. If the gravity stop to a short distance of the stars, how do they hold together in the form of galaxy? And if time time stop outside what you consider the range of the gravity, how the light of the stars is reaching us? According to what you say their lights should stop when they reach the frontier of their gravity well. Without time nothing can move!! !

Gravity is not endless, and I think it should reach farther than 10 billion miles. But there it is being reported that galatic gravity takes over, and shapes the energy ribbon.

I would expect the interstellar medium to be very thin, and not account for a shock wave, but smooth sailing.

I would expect the gravity well to decline over vast distances, so disagree about Galitic Gravity, Light Pressure, Interstellar Medium, as a boundry.

Everything else is light years away, the Sun is 10 billion miles, so who swings the larger inverse square?
Why would there be a heliopause as a strong local force enters a much thinner interstaller medium?

From Galieo to Newton Earth Gravity was taken as a universal standard, which Newton changes to an inverse square.

As for the great science that sent probes to Mars, they knew where it would be, they hit it, but they hit it hard, as their time calculations were off. American and Russian, same results. ten or twelve failed missions combined. Not until they switched to earth based control did they get something to the surface in one piece.

Then comes an outer planet fly by that showed the on board clocks were running slow.

These experiments, or malfunctions, are what got me thinking that Time/Gravity are two things we can not block, nor has the mystic Gravatron been produced, or a Timeatron. So they share no waves or particles, and we do know something of the behavior of gravity over distance.

I do not think the Universe runs on Earth Time. Time does not create space, distance, motion, they can work well without it.

All we know about time is it is a way of calibrating earth clocks. Locally, that works well.

i think particles are bound packets of pure energy that have found a resonant frequency that is related to the probabilities of their existence, and these concentrations of "pure" energy "gravitate" around the most likely probabilities of their universal locii.

it is like a universal "feedback" incited by an outpouring of indefinably pure energy at a rate which tripped over itself (as it were), because a universal resistance caused the energy to compress into pockets of "likelyhoods" that became so inevitable due to the arrival of so much energy, that fixed orbits of bound pure energy were formed, and that is what i imagine to be "particles".

what most people refer to as "energy" is second generation energy because it is particulate migrations. like solar energy is a shower of particles, and it is the particles which contain the bound cosmic or pure energy that gives rise to all manifestation. that energy is never seen in the manifested universe because it is all bound in indestructible particles (indestructible in all but end state scenarios).

i think the orbital resonances and inevitable probability matrices (which have not been discovered) are the windows to see where matter becomes energy.
"probabilities" are discovered and not invented so they are in existence without the human mind. therefore they are another dimension of the universal existence and are fundamental to the actuation of events.

whatever. someone is at my door. they will not be well received but i will try.