Aspie Girls vs. NT Guys

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I wanted to place this under Social Skills and Making Friends, but it seemed to be a forum for younger people, so because this one also can deal with interaction between opposite genders, I decided to just go ahead and post it here.



It's getting more noticeable as I progress in age that everyone else seems to be psychologically maturing, emotionally maturing. At first I was viewing it as if mentally I was stunted in age-appropriate social interaction, often referring to myself as having the mind of a 12 year old. Recently, however, I've come to realize that it isn't a childlike mind, but rather possessing logic without expressed emotion, which has me appearing "innocent." I handle things rationally and deal with guys as if they were my buddies rather than considering their sex drive. This often has me misunderstood by both NT males and females.

I know that as I get older, it becomes more dangerous to attempt to innocently befriend guys, because apparently, they don't actually want to be "friends" with girls; they have underlying motivations for interaction. I think to myself that even after they had hit puberty but where still my classmates in school, many of them were my buddies, which means their hormones weren't impeding our friendship. Of course, that wasn't ALWAYS the case in my experience, but most of the time, where as I can consider it the majority/usual.

I am 27. When I do socialize, it tends to be with people around my age. Usually it's with males, because I've always gotten on well with them as opposed to females, who have never been nice to me. I feel like the little sister-type but NT females do not take the time to see that I'm not like them. I'm very good at mimicking, but the one thing I have never been able to do is mimic young adult females. There is this dark complexity of their mind. I can comprehend how they think, but I find it illogical and extremely emotion-based.

People often regard males as the most possessive, but I disagree; the female likes to dominate the male, his time and attention. I was corresponding with this one guy today who has been messaging me on and off for a couple years and lives near me. We have never met, but the way he pops up out of the blue and asks how I've been doing and stays diligent in this, it occurred to me that maybe we should hangout some time. I just talk to him like a human being, not using word foreplay. He is just a person, an individual, like I am.

He told me that he had been working out and wanted me to view a picture he had in his MySpace album and tell him what I thought. I suppose he was proud of his new physique, so I went to look. I playfully commented how he was scary big and that he could snap me like a twig, and it makes me want to hide, because I'd be worried to push the wrong button, but that according to the other comments I was seeing, he looks like "da playa" (i.e., "da man") who attracts all the pretty ladies. I didn't see this as offensive, and apparently, he didn't either. He already knows that I think he is a super nice guy with an award-winning personality.

One of the girls who had responded on his comments stating how "hot" he looked or whatever, immediately posted a slash at me that he is the nicest guy I could ever have the pleasure to meet, and that I better watch what I say. She was obviously offended. I retorted that my comment was apparently playful, and if she knew me, she wouldn't think otherwise; and that I couldn't see how it could be taken negatively. (The initial comment that I did post about his picture was, in fact, extremely playful, unlike how it may have sounded summarizing it in the previous paragraph, which seemed to have lost it's charm)

Before I had commented on his picture, in the message he sent concerning taking a look at his physique, he let me know he was at work and it was a quick response but we should meet, and he invited me out to some bar that he and his friends would be hanging at tonight. Well, the fact that I don't have transportation paired with not being an admirer of clubs or bars, had my immediate response as in, "ha ha...try again." Then after being verbally attacked by one of his female friends online, I feel that being around his friends would be a big mistake, because I would rub them the wrong way.

I still don't know if he understands that I'm not like them. I looked at his profile and saw his 127 friends, most of which were young, attractive, busty females with big smiles and shiny faces; many of them were trying to appear "sexy" in their profile pictures (avatars). I'm not a sorority-chick type. I don't dress slinky. I don't even have boobs. I don't hang all over guys trying to pull them into my seductive trance, because I don't have that trance. I'm blunt and ... I don't even know what word to place after the and. I am silly and friendly and good-natured, I suppose.

It does worry me now about possibly hanging out with him, in case it never sunk in that I'm not like them. He is used to "them." He seems like the "frat boy" type. He is ex-Navy, but I am acquainted online with someone else who is currently serving in the Navy, and he is the quiet and nice sort, who spends his free-time by himself reading, so I'm not trying to stereotype those in the military. This guy seems nice, too, but I know that I have to be cautious nowadays, and as I did post in my comment to him, being totally blunt, his size is intimidating. It does make me fearful being around people who are "ripped."

I've started to feel a divide between myself and friends that I've had (online) since my early teen years. They all did the partying thing at some point...some of them still do hang out with drinking buddies and keep hot girls in their company. I just never entered that world. I don't use my sexuality as a tool. It's one of those things about me that I think is as important as my feet. I know that I use my feet to walk, but I don't show them off or think about them regularly. They are there and serve a purpose.

Females are combative towards me. I make them hostile, because they think that I am trying to pose as competition. What the hell would I be competing to win? I don't treat the people in my life as if they are some movie star, placing them on a pedestal, always trying to impress. I don't think I could even be star-struck, actually. I understand that every individual is "just another person." The thing is. I know this is atypical, and I guess it makes it difficult to get along in the world, because everyone is fueled by some sexual passion which makes them act and react in certain ways, even manipulative and devious.

I don't know why anyone would feel the need to attack me, because I don't constitute a threat. I'm a pacifist. I just find it fun to make friends and have people with which to converse and hang out with, doing cool stuff like watching movies or playing video games and telling jokes and anecdotes. Does it always have to be a sexual thing between people to stimulate the motivation to interact?

Last edited by neopsytox on 05 Sep 2009, 5:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

It doesn't have to be anything sexual. Common interests is the #1 motivation for interacting, at least for me it is.

I'm sorry for how much I write, but I only come to this forum when something is eating away at me, and I need to let loose some of those thoughts and possibly seek advice. I am not good at this forum thing, and even after 15 years of using the internet, I've only rarely ever used them. Lately I've been trying to, though, when I have something that I want to talk about, so that it won't just remain as introspective thoughts in my head, so that I can share them in an interactive way and in an attempt to be more social.


...as for my post. I know that I am atypical, which would constitute me as "weird;" however, the way that I am doesn't seem bad (IMO), just different. It may be misunderstood by most, even some Aspies, but I would think that some people could understand. I mean, I don't have a third eyeball or second nose on my face. I just actually seek friends, as opposed to potential lovers.


You see my avatar? It's somewhat representative of me. Anyone who has seen Chobits would know that Sumomo isn't some sexual object type; she is like a kid-sister. If you blend her with Chi, I suppose that would create a more similar "me," as Chi is very innocent and aloof. I would be the average of the two. Playful at times but lost in a dream-like state of curiosity to understand the world around me.

It seems unsafe, that I shouldn't interface (heh) with regular guys, as I am older. I've actually been retreating, now befriending a completely different type of person in the past 5 or so years, because I worry about getting caught in a mess. But with this "different type of guy," who usually is very passive, thin, quiet, and shy or awkward (to be translated into "low self-esteem"), I cannot form as strong a bond or connection, because we seem so dissimilar. I am a strong, confident girl. I am assertive when I care to be. I am straight-forward and precise. I'm kinda like a guy, in a sense. Maybe when guys look at me in a sexual way, it's awkward, because it feels like "gay love," which would be okay, if they were to view me as a guy and not as a girl, but that's not the case.

And it always seems like they want me to fit a certain role. At first they are drawn to me because I'm different, because I'm a novelty, but then they eventually expect me to act like a "normal" girl, as if what they were attracted to before was some sort of act -- foreplay. Maybe it embarrasses them as men to be around girls who aren't trying to jump them, in turn, making these confident males insecure, and maybe they only ever wanted me around to be a show-piece, in the first place, but if I don't work to get other guys to desire me, which attracts attention to him in the process, I'm a dud. Why does it have to be so complicated? or rather...so emotionally-based? I want to be liked for ME, not my genitalia, and I don't want to be paraded around like a trophy.

Last edited by neopsytox on 05 Sep 2009, 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Maybe if I could find the kind of people that I'm seeking, I would be more open to actually having sincere romantic relationships, if I could find people that view me as a human being. Not to say that just because someone like this crosses my path, I will be attracted to him as more than a friend, but I think that perhaps I could only ever seriously be attracted to someone who does fit this description. It would make me feel comfortable with them, because the relationship would be about "us" and not how others perceive us.

I'm not saying that I want people in my life who can fool me and pretend they aren't interested in me, because that is still playing a stupid little game. I wouldn't mind, and do appreciate, being found attractive and intelligent and funny and all those other compliments that are so hard to take. It also doesn't mean it should be a person that is attracted to me and would love to be with me, but feels so insecure in their ability to accomplish this that they keep me around as a friend, because it's better than nothing. It should be a person that can easily be friends with me or any other girl, and be attracted, but be self-assured enough not to have the desire to date just anyone who brings about that reaction. My point, they should be able to be friends with people they find attractive and not be strategizing as to how to get them into bed.

I make friends with attractive guys all the time. I speak to attractive guys, who, on top of being physically appealing, have a sense of humour and are intelligent, but that doesn't make me want to chase after them or obtain them. I like them for who they are and respect them as a person. I don't swoon or stammer or blush, indicating that I am unworthy of their presence. Now, the crappy thing is when someone doesn't know me, but knows how girls respond to them, knows they are attractive, and when I do talk to them, they assume I am in awe or chasing their tail.

The important thing would be that you connect with them, IMHO. Try to find common interests, etc.

u hv expressed some very interesting views / perspectives... i too m a female aspie, who has little idea abt what romance is, but ppl mistake my sensitive creativity for being romantic... and i hv got into heaps of trouble trusting too easily and having a completely different idea of what friendship is... i read ur views and some of them do make perfect sense to me...

spunkykitty

I understand neopsytox, I tend to get into similar situations. I think the girls see you as a threat (this is my theory anyway) because you interact with the guys on a sort of equal level that they don't understand, and when they see the guys like how you interact with them, they feel threatened. You are fundamentally breaking the invisible laws of female to male interaction. As aspie girls we can't really help this because we don't think like females, the best thing you can do is try to be really calm, open, and friendly towards the other girls and after a time they will stop seeing you as a threat and at worst ignore you (which isn't necessarily such a bad thing hahaha).

It can be hard, I see the body as a functional tool to do things with too, and the whole female sexuality thing is very alien to me but seems to complicate all areas of my life at this age. Good thing is this probably won't last forever; once we're older and less attractive, people won't feel threatened by us being un-female-like.

I find being a pacifist is a good way to go. Worst thing you can probably do is attack them/be threatening, because that will send the situation into overdrive.

I know what you mean about guy friends, it can be very confusing because I tend to interact in a very guy like manner and I'm always wary now about the whole sexual maturity thing because it can influence all your supposedly innocent friendships in unforseen ways. I try to just keep things on a friendship level, and am as clear as I can be about just being friends. I find a technique that works really well is to join in with their "girl talk" - like when they're checking out girls/talking about girls they like, like "yeah, she's totally hot/hahaha you're dreaming" and this will put you onside as "one of the guys", and they tend to forget you're an available member of the opposite sex.

FYI the first quote isn't consistent with the second quote... it's not logic without expressed emotion which makes you look innocent. It's because you are 27 and aren't quite understanding why other women are jealous of you when you are interacting with cute guys (e.g. you look like you are leading the guy on even though you are oblivious to that), and guys see you as interacting with them without significant sex drive as though you were prepubescent, i.e. childlike. What makes you look innocent is that in a way you are hoping that guys and girls can still interact without any sexual component in the interaction, as though they're all prepubescent kids playing tag with each other... when in fact the guys and girls have grown up.

Anyway, as a guy I had the opposite side while growing up; it was a lot easier for me to befriend girls than guys, and it's still largely that way. But in my late teens/early 20s I realized that I can no longer treat guys and girls on identical footing, like prepubescent kids. The hormones and sexuality change everything socially. Now that you're in your 20's, you do have to realize that there is always a potential for a nonplatonic element to exist between you and any member of the opposite sex (or even same sex if you have any homosexual leanings at all), and there can oftentimes be the question of whether someone's actions in the relationship are just platonic in nature, or intended to mean something deeper. This complexity simply didn't exist when you're younger, but the situation's now different and you unfortunately don't really have much choice other than to get used to it. You will need much more discretion and emotional and physical distance from now on when you interact with guys, especially ones who already have girlfriends or are married, otherwise the girlfriend or wife is going to think you're trying to steal the guy. You will need to be more careful of what you say, because your words could be construed as leading the guy on, even though you don't intend to do so.

Is it possible for you to have a platonic relationship with a guy now or in the future? Yes, but it'll be a lot harder to find such a guy compared to if you were still a kid, and it'll be a lot easier for that platonic relationship to switch to a nonplatonic one. Welcome to adult life! It's rough.

^ What Stinkypuppy said.

I wonder the percentage of Aspie females who are also artistic, the artistic autistic...heh. I've found that many I have met are very creative individuals, as the guys seem to lean more towards be technologically savvy.

My mother constantly calls me naive for thinking that a guy and a girl can actually be friends. I still rationalize that if males were capable of being "just friends" with females shortly after entering puberty, what would make it so different now, except society's view on the matter, the instilled expectations of others? It just makes me idealistic. She says by being friends with a guy, I'm leading him on, telling him to rape me, and that it is my fault, and I deserve it because of my ignorance. And in a way, I am at fault, because I'm treating every person individually, rather than as a collective and "learning from my mistakes" and keeping away from males, unless I want to be physically intimate.

And I really am lost, because with my guy friends, unless they are very directly, deliberately, and seriously flirting with me, I don't think anything of our interactions past friendship. Only when they get verbally bold or other suggestive notions, do I have the instinct to pull away and distance myself before it is too late. A lot of time, I am caught off guard, because I don't see it coming. They are subtle, and usually it's not until they act that anything seemed atypical.

I'm not ignorant in that I do understand that guys think about sex. I don't fault them for that. Many of them have even told me that they think about it at one point or another with most females in which they have contact, but there is a division between imagination and action. In the fact that their statement includes such a large base of imagined sexual objects, it shows that they have control and choice. But like mother said, I guess being nice to a guy, hanging out, and enjoying his company is leading him on.

Haha...yeah, I always comment on chicks, whether good or bad. I guess from the perspective of onlookers, I sometimes sound like a butch lez, but at those times, I'm in total "guy-mode"...I mean, when I'm around guys, I feel like I'm one of them. They don't treat me delicately or anything. They talk about anything. They aren't trying to impress me. They are just natural. I guess I look at my guy friends as brothers. I always wanted brothers. I treat them as brothers. They don't seem to treat me as a possible sex object. We act like buddies, but maybe they just fall in love with that. And seriously, even though I'm being dishonest when I say it to them, I try to guard myself by having discussions concerning my disinterest in romantic relationships or sex or marriage, and that these aspects have eventually caused strains on my previous friendships with guys who decided they wanted more from me than "buddyship." I warn them not to go there unless they are looking to ruin things. Honestly, sometimes it's years and years before they do, though... No one ever tries anything for quite a while. I guess each of them figures that they will be the one to "change everything." A lot of time, even though it sounds harsh, if I hear something like a statement of how comfortable they feel around me, this is my warning sign of caution -- I let them know that it may be odd for them to be so comfortable around someone, but most people feel "unbelievably comfortable" around me. Basically, I may be special to them, but they aren't that special to me. I try to put it delicately, though. They tell me their secrets; they share with me what they've never shared with another; they let me see them at their absolute worst. Maybe it's the fact that I don't judge them and accept them anyway. It makes them weak how relaxed I am. I look at that as friendship, though. I am very devoted and loyal to my friends. They are my family by choice, not obligation. I don't want to have to change. I like the way I am, but I don't want to be alone. I feel like an orphan.

And I'm always nice to girls. I would prefer it if I could connect to them. I've always wanted to be friends with girls more than guys, but they just don't want me around. They are usually very mean to me. I still try to make friends with girls to this very day. I want to be accepted and form strong bonds, but we are so different. They find me strange. I'm not a novelty to them (as I am with guys) nudging their curiosity, just activating their fear (fight) receptors. It actually surprises me that girls can be friends with each other, period. They seem so competitive for attention and control. The one thing that I have found in the Asperger's community, is that I absolutely adore aspie females!! ! They may be reluctant to have a friendship with me because I am a girl, but I tend to get along so well with them and share so much in common. It makes me extremely happy. Still, I haven't formed actual friendships with any of them, yet.

haha...they could probably turn me lesbian, but then I'd just be doing myself. ^_^ and I could do that alone *snicker*

#1. The contradiction of the two statements... chobits are machines. they are programmed logically, but have to relate to those who have authentic emotion. Each have different personalities that develop through their AI, but they will never be human. It's a pinocchio story. I am a machine, staring at those of flesh and blood, observing, interacting, learning...But my personality may seem innocent, because I perhaps appear untainted by what I experience in the world. I am less moved by emotion. I do process the information that I receive, but it is never exactly clear to me the irrationality in how people act, when people don't HAVE TO be that way. I do not deny being idealistic, but I also grasp the reality I live in...to a point. I just don't like it *shrugs* And no, I can't change it, but I can be irritated by it.

#2. I don't just interact with "cute" guys. I've actually learned from experience that it is better to stay away from them to avoid conflicts. When speaking with "cute" guys, however, if those jealous girls would look past their narrow world and see that I also talk to UGLY guys and in the same manner, maybe there wouldn't be such an issue. I also wish people could understand that just because they find someone physically attractive, doesn't mean that is the shared opinion of all. It is only an opinion, not fact.

#3. Another thing I make sure not to do is befriend dating or married dudes. I try to avoid conflict with females when at all possible. Only once did I break this code, but that was because someone I had been working with had been persistently trying to befriend me for a year. I kept snubbing him and telling him he should go home and have conversations with his wife. I eventually felt bad for being rude and decided to talk to him one day when he looked depressed. We became friends, but then, of course, it developed into a mess once he left his wife and needed to fill his co-dependency issues. Usually, I tend to have problems with existing friends once they start dating a girl, and she aggressively wants us to discontinue contact and blah blah. They are good friends to me, though. They go behind their gf's back to speak with me, which makes things worse because it appears suspicious and fuels their paranoia. But I'm like their priest during these times. I listen to their troubles and give them advice. I am straight with them, though, in asking if they really want someone that forces them into isolation, rather than integrating into their life. Most of my long-time friends have never married, maybe it's my fault (but I don't want to think that I hold such influence over them). Actually, none of my long-time friends have ever married, except for my best friend's "shot-gun wedding" when we were out of contact for about a year back around when I was 20. That only lasted a few weeks, though.

Anyway, I appreciate your realism. I do see how things "work" for the most part, I just don't like it, but THAT IS life...and I am letting off steam. I just wish people would realize that I'm not a threat to anyone. I'm a high-functioning robot of Asimov's laws.

All of this totally describes my life back when I was in a more social situation (when I was childless and tending bar). It's uncanny. I have on occasion been able to maintain a buddy type friendship with a guy although periodically I would have to deal with jealousy from a significant female. Sometimes I've told them the fact is if I was interested in their man in that way I would be too shy to talk to him. Once one of these guy friends told me a another friend (female) told him he needed a girlfriend and was thinking of possibilities. She said 'Oh, but not Aimless, she's an old shoe'.

I remember this girl who came to the house and made it a point to completely blow off everyone (males anyway) who tried to start a conversation with her, she was just drawn into her cell phone. There was a valid reason to not like her, I could picture her laughing about how she could get anything she wanted based off of her looks alone.

That doesn't describe you at all though, you're polite enough to aknowledge people who talk to you. IMO you're a great friend (lots of aspie males just need a female friend). As you've pointed out, they're in this mindset where they feel the need to dominate you in some way. Fishing for compliments or having you aknowledge their masculinity is their way of doing it. You aren't wrong in any way to want to keep your dignity by not giving in. Stinkypuppy is right, you'll just have to move on from them, as long as you were polite and platonic, your reputation is intact, but they will try to take you down a notch the longer you stay in their presence, it's just their mentality.

Neopsytox,

Your posts are incredibly well written. I can relate to them from the opposite side - a guy who gets along with women but rarely other guys. The NT women are typically thinking along the lines of a relationship above friendship, and of course I send mixed signals because I don't easily comprehend that level of nonverbal social communication.

Have you looked for non-dating activity groups? I've joined a local non-dating "Active Singles" group that has provided a social outlet without the pretext of dating. Otherwise I'm not sure what I can add as far as advice goes... I'm dealing with many of the same issues that you are.