Illustrator or Writer ??

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I'm in process of writing a cracking good story for a graphic novel. I mentioned this to an artist friend and offered him 30% of future profits from the series to draw it. He turned me down ! !! !
He said people read comic books for the art, not the story ! !!
He said I should take the back seat, and give the lion's portion of the profits to him for his superb ability to bring my characters to life ! !! !!
Is the story secondary ????
Should we call Alan Moore for his opinion ???

I’ve actually done a graphic novel with a small team for educational purposes. As far as I know it has not been published yet, but I wasn’t in charge of the publishing. I was in charge of everything else, unless someone else decided they wanted to be in charge for a day, but I was the one doing most of the work. I hate team projects. ><

Anyway, rant aside, I’d have to say that it’s about fifty-fifty. If the art is horrid but the story is fantastic then people will read it. If the art is fantastic and the story is horrid than people will read it. It goes either way. If both are good then it’s more likely to be read. If neither are good, then…good luck?

But as far as it’s concerned, the artist has to do more work, so it would make logical sense that they would get slightly more money in the scheme of things. Unless of course the writer literally laid everything out for them, and all they had to do was draw the images. Graphic novels are a lot of work.

I would like to hear Alan Moore's opinion though.
Go ahead and call him.

I'd say you were lucky you didn't actually create a comic with someone like that. I have no idea how the money works but I do know that it would be miserable working with someone who thinks they're bloody superior.

As a writer turned publisher, and printer, the big money is in shipping and handeling.

Talent is worthless without marketing, and that falls on the writer.

My historical novel has reached the point where customers are needed. Artists were such flakes that I stole from the past, pre 1924 steel engravings.

I have been trying to get a dust cover designed for years, it is the hook that gets people to take a look, which could lead to buying.

Our highly talented computer generation comes up a bit short when doing something is involved.

Altogether it is easier to fake art, as some know how to spell, which makes writing harder to fake. Artists are also unable to understand a story line, they doddle.

It is up to the writer to block out the visuals, artists copy the latest fads, and will give you characters from an ad they saw on a bus.

I too hate team projects, they all seem to be playing for the opposing team.

It can involve different people with skills, but it better have a unity of presentation to sell enough to cover production costs.

Talent gets 5% of the sale price, printers 20%, retailers 50%, and publishers 25% for funding the venture. Shipping and handeling gets $5.95 for $0.90 media mail stappled in a cardboard sleeve. S&H gets ten times what talent does.

I have been looking for artists, I think I will try Chinese Prisons next.

Art has a place, after they are dead. This is marketing, which takes a knowledge of what people are buying, and getting ahead of the market. Being an artist comes with an anti business attitude. Marketing is where the product meets the money.

Art can only enhance the product, I have never seen a comic book without a storyline, and only great graphics, but I have seen books with only words, which sold millions. Visuals are created in words, then destroyed in the film version.

I say the writer has to have the lead in all things, keeping the whole one construct. Mostly writers don't, publishers do, and the problem is the same with finding Editors, proof readers, text layout, artists, finding people who understand that they are only worth something if the product sells.

I would suggest doing your own art, it gets closer to a finished product, and after several do overs, it can be fixed, but will remain a whole.

Style is very personal, and why few are writers. Great works do not come from the team at the Great Works Book Factory in New YorK. They may have the talent to produce text layout, edit, graphics, and market, but it always starts with the work of one writer. The closer you get to printer ready, the better the work.

I find drawing my characters gives me new insight into who they are, which changes the text, words, and the two blend. My art will win no awards, but it does educate me.

I am still in need of a dust jacket.

I have been looking for artists, I think I will try Chinese Prisons next.

Depending on how much you want it, the first step might be to go where the artists are.

It sounds like you have a pretty definite idea what you want. There's several routes you could use:

1) License the art. It can be done. If you find what you want, you can approach the copyright holder, and see if they'll permit it. The worst they can do is say no.

2) Go to where artists are; there are some very good 3d artists out there (alas, I'm not one of them), at sights like Runtime DNA, Daz3d, Renderosity, CG Talk, the list goes on and on. You can approach the artists there, the magic word 'commission' tends to get their interest.

3) There's art sites for many a major an minor artists; I used to have a site with over 1,000 URLs for Sci-Fi art (slawico, I think was in the name), varying from nonames, to Roger Dean and top-notch people. Of course, the better-known the artist, the higher the price.

4) Do it yourself. There's a lot of people out there who do their own stuff, either just for fun, or actually to get paid. Bryce 5.5, Daz Studio, Truespace, the GIMP, etc., are all 3d art programs that are fairly functional, and are also free.

In fact, PM me, I may have someone who could do a dust jacket for you.

My only experience has been with two artists. This bloke who did a Logo for a business I wanted to start. He was so thorough and detailed it was a pain to e-mail him. The other guy I found on Guru.com and he was a total let down. Never again will I send money first. At least it wasn't a lot of money to learn that lesson.

I'm looking for someone to partner with ...

You obviously haven't had many good experiences with artists, neither of you. Artists can be difficult people to work with. I'll agree. But so can writers (I had a terrible time with the writers of the graphic novel we did) and publishers, and everyone else.

Yeah, you never send money first and if someone asks you to then that’s a big red flag. Never trust the other side, even if you’ve been working with them for years. At work, we suspected out biggest client of stealing artwork from us, but since the company was having so many other troubles we decided not to try to fight too many battles at the same time.

If you can, try to get to know an artist a little more than just by their work. I know artists (and have worked with them) who are simply fantastic, but require constant shoving in order to get anything done. If you find honest, hardworking people with a good work ethic than you shouldn’t have too many troubles. Perhaps you can even ask around on here. Most of us have AS which makes us a rather honest bunch.

I’d love to help you, but I’m still a bit wary of graphic novels from my last experience, and my life is going through a gigantic change right now so that makes it hard for me to really focus on anything aside from what I have to do. I wish you luck though, both of you, with the graphic novel and the dust jacket.

It works for me, pre 1924, all is copyright free, and back then artists engraved on steel for bread and water. They were really very good, and as full color comes in about 1900, the supply of books, magazines, prints, does cover a lot.

I work ebay, easy search, and find stuff I can use. Even when it is only close, it was still laid out by a good eye, I scan, enlarge, cut and paste, and get something that looks like the final product I want. I use Photoshop and whiteout.

Artists do need something, words do not work as well as images. Once it is scaled, it can be traced with a clear acetate sheet, and it is a new image. This is a useful way of lifting recent art. After 1924, I have no idea who did it, the publication no longer exists, use it.

Artists are very good at pulling a final skin over such an image. It speeds up the whole process, and artists are very bad at pricing their work. Give them something they can fix up in a half hour, do not have the creative ego involved, and the price gets reasonable.

Comics used quick sketchs, then gave that to an inker, then someone else did fill color.

Manga is often black only, sometimes two color, red, they are bloody, and leave out backgrounds where they do not add to the story.

Aspie animators are sold as slaves in Japan, much like coders in Redmond. 90 hour weeks keep them docile.

They do have artist's egos, they can draw better than you can, and will almost pay you for the chance to show off.

The second issue is we are not doing fine art, graphic novel is a fast read, and less detail lets the reader fill in the character. In detective pulp, the hot babe sitting on the desk straightening her stocking was in high detail, the detective was in shadow under a fedora. Leave room for character identity with the reader.

For other things detail works, "Only Alice was close to his heart, as she hung in the shoulder holster, her silky smooth butt rubbing on his chest, from the sharp checkering of her firm grips to the gleaming blue of her well oiled perfection, he knew she could always be trusted, She was a factory girl, COLT Model 1911 .45 ACP, she had been around, and always brought him home."

I like stories with lots of pictures of the same people in different poses, they are easy to lift, rearrange, and give a new life.

It is a quick way to finish, and beats the cost of an artist trying to understand words. It also defines ownership, your rough work does give you character rights, even if you do send them to the beauty parlor. Printing out several sets, you can have several artists put on a finish layer, then pick, chose, and do it over. Anything worth doing is worth doing several times.

In the old days some did hands, some cloth, some hair, some faces. Use the skills you can find.

Go to local art shows, praise the work, be a hunter, look for weak prey. When you find a style that you like, say I wish my work came out as well. Recognition is worth a lot to artists. Paying in praise works.

As Kurt Vonnegut said, I am not a writer, I stuff a lot of rough work in an envelope, mail it to this woman, and a few days later it comes back all neatly typed, with proper spelling and puncuation.

Not even spell check can keep me in order. Paying for a few services does help.

Looking at the whole book market, I started printing and binding my own. I can afford to give them away. It is not just a gift, for the feedback is great. Readers have no incentive to do other than tell the truth. Of those who read it, their replies group, and I can see where I have a universal appeal, and where more work is needed. This costs a few dollars a copy, and is worth much more.

I was told I over illustrated the early versions, and I was told where they did want more illustration.

All the while I was discovering better ways to produce. Learning the process and the marketing chain helped. Small production is expensive, unless you do it yourself, then it is cheap. I am a laserjet publisher, and use a tape binding machine. It works, and when I can order 3,000, it gets cheaper.

I print books on demand that will sell less than 1,000, and if they hit 1,000, they will pay for for the next 3,000. That is not a lot in the book world.

Books are sold, it takes ads, personal appearance, just like being a rock band, play a hundred little clubs, give away the demo CD, until people have heard your name. You can have a big name publisher who will send out advance copies, get it in bookstores, and it will not sell. Speaking at bookstores, clubs, schools, getting clippings from the papers, sending out your own press release, is what it takes.

Building a name as a writer is more important than sales. Once they have heard your name they will buy the book.

Some read books, others want to write one, they will all come to look at a writer. Good reviews come from giving away signed copies.

In America, I think it is all uphill till 8,764 copies of your book are out there, then word of mouth takes over. Get busted for skinny dipping with Paris Hilton, speak of yourself as The Writer Prof, when people hear you speak they will say this writer spoke, brainwash them!

We are naturals, people expect writers to be different.

Inventor, you're bloody creative ! !!

I'm presently thinking of using photos taken by the WPA back in the thirties in the US.

An exception to the Copyright Law, everything paid for by governnment is Public Domain.

WPA did hire some great artists and it is all free to use.

Try a Library of Congress on line search.