The TRUE definition of Alpha Males

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CelticGoddess
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13 Sep 2009, 7:27 am

^ Quiet nerdy guys can be alpha's too, they just don't have to be loud and aggressive about it. It doesn't mean that because they're shy and quiet that they lack strength. :wink:



ToadOfSteel
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13 Sep 2009, 1:25 pm

CelticGoddess wrote:
^ Quiet nerdy guys can be alpha's too, they just don't have to be loud and aggressive about it. It doesn't mean that because they're shy and quiet that they lack strength. :wink:


I get the idea that a true "alpha" is less likely to be loud and aggressive (that tends to be the territory of wannabe alphas), in keeping with the whole "speak softly and carry a big stick" philosophy...

Anyway, I think the way that the concept of "alpha" would manifest itself in today's society tends to be in the one fantasy that is almost universally shared among men: the knight in shining armor fantasy. The whole idea of coming in to rescue the damsel in distress had been repeated ad nauseam over the eons in the works of countless civilizations up to and including present day. It doesn't have to necessarily be the hero rushing in to defeat the dragon and climb the tower where said damsel in distress is being locked away, though... it could be something simple like driving some woman that cant drive or doesn't have a car to work or somewhere else she needs to be (part of the reason men without cars are at a disadvantage), or a man who steps in to protect a woman from an abusive ex-boyfriend, or my personal favorite: the nerd who comes in and fixes her computer...



CelticGoddess
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13 Sep 2009, 2:49 pm

^ I would consider that a gentleman quality, not an alpha quality. Alpha's can be gentleman as well though.



0_equals_true
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13 Sep 2009, 6:27 pm

I think both definitions the in the OP are not correct.

Alpha male is a concept used by biologists. It is much easier to apply that lable to animals with clear case alpha behaviour like wolves, where there is a single dominant male, that controls all the breading to the extent that the other males are unlikely to breed, and if they try it on they will pay the consequences.

With chimps biologists do refer to alpha, and the alpha can have quite a bit of control but not to the extent of wolves. In bonobos there is a matriarch (different from alpha female really) but it is more egalitarian. Humans share behaviour with both as well as unique behaviour.

In humans it is much, much more ambiguous, and relative. The power play is dynamic. This is because we tend to live in large numbers, and have multiple overlapping groups. There a many ways to have an edge but no clear leader. Even where there is not high numbers, we still rely on a various different skill sets in order survive collectively.

I would say forget about the whole alpha male thing. Think about what you want, and consider whether you have a realistic chance.



0_equals_true
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13 Sep 2009, 6:35 pm

About aggression vs. dominance. It depends on the animal but with dogs and wolves there is not necessarily a need for ‘red zone’ aggression, that is usually a sign that there is something wrong with the animal. Instead the alpha is calm but assertive and dominating, using aggression where necessary and to remind the other members of the pack. The dominance/submissive behaviour can be exercises that are more symbolic with the dominant pinning and mouthing rather than biting hard on the submissive, and with the submissive turning on its back and ears back.



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08 Oct 2009, 4:14 pm

Less than a week ago i stood naked in front of my mirror, roaring, all muscles tensed, heavy breathing, strongly closing my hands and then letting them loose again and again. It felt so good. I think that's it. That's the end of the spectrum. That moment. That's alpha maleness in it's purest form. I've now seen the light at the end of the tunnel. It should be less than a year before i will be able to provide a definition of what a human alpha male is.


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08 Oct 2009, 4:36 pm

MountZion wrote:
I have often seen the name of the Alpha Male besmerched a lot, and it is quite funny, as I have a completely different view on Alpha males altogether. (not from the wolf point of view, but the human one)

I see many being referred to as as*holes and aggressive dominant characters, when actually, the Alpha is often a lot nicer than you think. I think everyone knows or has known/met an Alpha.

He is the guy that most people like, boys and girls alike. He has influence over people because he is self-confident, and kind-hearted, generous and wise. An angry Beta male who tells people he is an Alpha male, or wants people to think he is, asserts himself by force, and dominance, rather than compassion, intelligence, and strength beyond means. Those are who people are really talking about when they say "Alpha male-assholes".

Alpha Males do not need to be aggressive, and in fact are often the most passive, simply because they are sure of themselves and their surroundings. They are a man in every true sense. And they do not revel in being smarter than anyone, rather they surround themselves with people who are just as clever, or indeed people who are just as clever.


Now the angry Betas, who pose as Alpha Males, are as*holes (sometimes). They are just as insecure as the many other men who aren't.

I think a lot of men who are like us (whether they have AS or not) have the potential to at least be a Gamma Male (I'll get into that one later :lol:) and also elevate to being an Alpha Male. It can be done if we can fine tune our own being to our strengths while ironing out our weaknesses.

Just my opinion, but I don't think it is right when a lot of good men get lambasted for things they haven't even done or aren't at fault for.


Great post, MountZion. I agree completely.



AceOfSpades
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09 Oct 2009, 5:44 am

I want to know what definition of alpha has an actual biological basis. Is it the knight in shining armour, or some sociopath who leaves you with scraps of food and blue balls?



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09 Oct 2009, 6:53 am

deadeyexx wrote:
I think the biggest problem for us in achieving alpha-male status is gathering followers. Our bad people skills makes that very difficult. Being cool & confident alone isn't enough. Other people must recognize your status.


In my honest opinion, a REAL alpha male is strong enough and confident enough that he does not need followers.

Just my opinion though.


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Janissy
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09 Oct 2009, 7:57 am

Kezzstar wrote:
deadeyexx wrote:
I think the biggest problem for us in achieving alpha-male status is gathering followers. Our bad people skills makes that very difficult. Being cool & confident alone isn't enough. Other people must recognize your status.


In my honest opinion, a REAL alpha male is strong enough and confident enough that he does not need followers.

Just my opinion though.


He doesn't need them but if he's actually an alpha male, he has leadership qualities that will attract followers to him. Using the animal model, the alpha male is the leader of the pack. If the pack does not follow because he does not lead- he's not an alpha. He's a strong, confident man who either fits in with the group or is a loner, but if he doesn't lead- he's not alpha. Followers can be strong and confident too. In fact, an awful lot of them would have to be or battle would be impossible. A leader can't achieve anything leading the weak and fearful. He isn't separated from them by strength and confidence. He's separated from the followers by his take-charge attitude that lets them know they will succeed in whatever the endeavor is if they follow his lead.



deadeyexx
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09 Oct 2009, 11:57 am

Kezzstar wrote:
deadeyexx wrote:
I think the biggest problem for us in achieving alpha-male status is gathering followers. Our bad people skills makes that very difficult. Being cool & confident alone isn't enough. Other people must recognize your status.


In my honest opinion, a REAL alpha male is strong enough and confident enough that he does not need followers.

Just my opinion though.


Can't agree with this. Being an alpha male is about status; not attitude. I see alpha status as a kind of sovereignty.

An alpha male is often strong an confident, but being strong & confident doesn't necessarily make you an alpha male.

Just like a king will often sit in a throne & wear a crown, but not every guy who sits in a throne & has a crown is a king.



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09 Oct 2009, 6:21 pm

deadeyexx wrote:
Kezzstar wrote:
deadeyexx wrote:
I think the biggest problem for us in achieving alpha-male status is gathering followers. Our bad people skills makes that very difficult. Being cool & confident alone isn't enough. Other people must recognize your status.


In my honest opinion, a REAL alpha male is strong enough and confident enough that he does not need followers.

Just my opinion though.


Can't agree with this. Being an alpha male is about status; not attitude. I see alpha status as a kind of sovereignty.

An alpha male is often strong an confident, but being strong & confident doesn't necessarily make you an alpha male.

Just like a king will often sit in a throne & wear a crown, but not every guy who sits in a throne & has a crown is a king.


Status is for wimps LOL.

Maybe I should rephrase:

REAL men don't need to be alphas. They are strong enough and confident enough not to need followers.

:)


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techstepgenr8tion
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09 Oct 2009, 8:33 pm

Its really this simple - genetics. An alpha isn't loved because their calm, nice to people, try to build them up, all while wearing it like they have so much going for themselves that they have no other reason to help out - its not an act, its legitimate reality most of the time. If you do have bad genetics you can get the best job, bulk up on weights, get good at martial arts, be the most world-wise and down to earth person you can possibly be (past what other people predicted was your potential) - for some reason it still shows and sadly, you can't out-achieve your genes; the opposite sex (if your a man - women, if your a woman - men) will still smell it out and yes, you'll do a little better with the opposite sex for your achievements but, only so significantly.

You can mend your life but, if you're not alpha you have little or no hope of making yourself that. The very thing that shows alpha is grace and grace comes from not having to try hard at things which means, in a nutshell, that your showing a vast reservoir of neurological power and strength - enough that things really are that effortless (even with work, some people have the capacity - most it seems don't). This is also why I think a lot of times the opposite sex pays little attention to an overachiever as well - yes, its accomplishment, you feel great *for* them as a human being but that's it, they're little more attractive than they would have been otherwise.



AngryJessman
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09 Oct 2009, 9:29 pm

deadeyexx wrote:
I think the biggest problem for us in achieving alpha-male status is gathering followers. Our bad people skills makes that very difficult. Being cool & confident alone isn't enough. Other people must recognize your status.


I remember being an as*hole alpha male in year 7,
im guessing the reason alot of people followed me and
walked in my steps and wanting to always sit next to me is because i bagged on the teachers
quite alot and they thought it was funny, which is understandable,
it's funny cos EVERY person in my class wanted to be a friend of me or get with me (i was a damn fool not to see the signs the girls were giving me) except a couple of people, it's really funny cos im sure they didnt really like me,
they was scared into liking me, but i think the girls liked my assh*le and wild additude,
but i don't believe being an assh*le alpha was close to being a man at all,
as i was immature and mean, funny but crazy and very unpredictable, exactly what i wanted,
whats even funnier is i only became an assh*le because I was bullied at the end of primary school,
and my will and ego would not let it happen again, so when i became an assh*le i secretly wanted people to hate but fear me
although I was in charge i couldn't help but think "am i their personal clown or something?"...."f*k that" i would think,
so i tried to focus i what i REALLY wanted and that was to be nice, instead of shouting and cursing at the teacher,
I tried to quiet myself down and act mature (bad mistake ha ha guess the girls liked it when i was bad), guess what a "friend" said? "whats wrong?" he said,
as I was more quiet and mature, I said "nothings wrong" and people quickly started to say "You've changed", and my
comment was "I just didn't like the way i was acting" and people didn't understand what was happening,
what was happening to their "wild clown", I believe back then and now I was and am truely more developed mentally than other
people, not all people but I acted very mature at such young age and it made people "prolly" think of their parents and
prolly how they hate their "maturity" (and strictness)
well the clown in me was hiding his tears and not acting out of stupidity or fear
I guess people were afraid of change, but personally it was never about them,
i wasn't being a clown to please them, i wasn't being an assh*le alpha out of real stupidity or immaturity
I was doing what the f*k i wanted, and in the rest of the years people quickly stopped,
trying to get a seat next to me, stopped trying to be my friend, stopped giving a sh*t about someone who obviously had
hidden problems, It makes very confused and angry nowadays as I realise the only way I am going to be liked
is if i try and please THEM and not MYSELF, I only hope people will give me a f*kin chance

another funny thing about me being more nicer was that I WAS acting like a Man, the few who didn't like me when I was
"somebody" ended up becoming my good friends as I admired that they, or "he" I should say, had enough guts or wasn't afraid to act out against the envy he felt for me

now that the clown AKA the trickster AKA ME is out of school, i hardly hang around with anyone, most of
the so called friends fell off, and the long time friends and more true friends just hangs around now with a different group,
I really am trying to become my own man, and not having to rely on others to give me comfort etc
All I believe I need is a gf by my side and some true friends I occasionaly hang out with simple, I already have
conquered alot of my demons and have gotten my confidence (like a kids) back, but Im sure the medication helped ha ha, either way im strong willed enough to not dabble in hard drugs, and strong minded to not become an alcoholic or addict of any substance (except for maybe food ha ha)

what I also want to say is I DON't believe anyone should try to be an alpha male
(shiet George Bush is and he's a f*kin dog!),
my definition of a male (and I dont have my dad to look up to or copy off)
is just like in the Rocky movies, its not about being powerful and to dish out punches and attacks,
but more about how much punches and things you can take and still GO FORWARD!
a career is also needed, not a job, a career, something you love doing so it is not
eating away at your soul and running your life, it's about you being in control of your destiny,
about YOU becoming your own self image of what it means to be a man without alot of help,
you doing whats necessary to survive, you supporting your family and giving all your
positive energy to you kids, it's up to YOU, and don't expect a free ride or plenty of hand outs or leg ups
use your advantages of your situation to the fullest and make the most out of your life
don't just think, do! and don't just do, Think! use your "sober" brain to help you to greatness



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10 Oct 2009, 9:43 pm

An alpha male is someone who's tough and smells like sweat and aftershave. Idk where u all are getting this skewed view of alpha males. An alpha male is whatever u want it to be. An alpha male for me is a sweaty arrogant NFL player who beats up people. mmmmm



26 Sep 2012, 12:39 am

The true essence of alpha male cannot be judge on its look but also on his attitude, traits and manner..