A rare and crippling memory impairment AND NVLD?

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I am 40 y/o and I was *diagnosed* with NLD over 12 years ago. I have never lived independently, i'd held nothing aside from menial jobs (as well as spending much of my adult life unemployed) and I only received an AA degree from a community college. It took me 8 years to do that WITH course substitutions for mathematics!! ! As painful as it is for me to be honest about the unspeakably wretched reality of my life, I feel I must if I ever want to find any answers as to why i've been such a colossal loser. I was never diagnosed with AS or any other ASD disorder....just NLD (LD-NOS was my official diagnosis of course since NLD is not yet a formal DX.) All of this would be perfectly understandable if my IQ scores were in the mildly mentally ret*d range/borderline intellectual functioning range. That is not the case though....while my WAIS scores always fit the pattern commonly found among those with NLD, i've never obtained a FSIQ below 112 (high average range) on any of the four neuropsych exams I took. I managed to score (FSIQ) of 116 on another and 143 (! !!) on the last one I took three years ago. All of these tests were administred by credible institutions/individuals. Even my PIQ scores have always been within the average/high average range though my block design and object assembly subtests are "impaired" or "borderline". If I really am of at least high average "G" intelligence, it's the worst case of "imprisoned intelligence" ever.


All of this leads me to believe that these tests and those who administred them have missed something very significant in my case. I feel that NLD may just be the tip of the iceberg in terms of my neuropsychological problems and the hellish circumstances of my life. Many, if not most, other people with NLD manage to obtain college degrees, decent employment and live independently. Many succeed at all other areas of life which have totally eluded me. Many of these people do not have IQ scores (VIQ, PIQ, or FSIQ) any better than my own and quite a few obtain scores significantly lower. I did not receive any early intervention, but neither did many of the *successful* NLD-ers i'm referring to. So I have a million theories and no sound conclusions. Every psychologist who ever tested me told me that while I may have some struggles, they see no reason to believe (based on my results) i'm incapable of learning just about anything. Nonetheless....I haven't learned much of anything in all my 40 years on this Earth!! ! I have absolutely no marketable skills which would allow me to obtain anything but the most menial unskilled employment. I even have had difficulty with many of the unskilled jobs i've had (like convenience store clerk) and have been fired from a number of them due to problems I had with cash registers, demands on my lousy executive functioning, (<often crucial for waiters) etc. I can't type, know virtually nothing about computers, etc... ad infinitum. My profoundly deficient brain (seemingly so to myself at least) is no less a mystery to me today than it was prior to any DX I received.


After a lifetime of self-observation, I believe I may have a rare and extremely debilitating problem with my long-term memory. NONE of this has ever been suggested by any of the neuropsych tests i've taken or any other observations external to my own. Just to give one of an infinite number of examples....I can remember nothing substantial about anything I read irrespective of how well I comprehend the material or how much it interests me. For instance, I have a passion for all things related to WW-II. I have read (and heard about) the Battle of the Bulge countless times, but I can recall only the most basic details about it. Aside from Patton and a few others, I can't even tell you who the major American/German commanders were. To be clear...as many times as i've read/heard about every single minute detail of the Battle, I could never even begin to write a book about it from memory. Thus, I appear to have severe problems with both my semantic and procedural memory.

Semantic memory can be defined as the conscious recollection of factual information and general knowledge about the world. Procedural memory is the memory of skills....the "how to" memory. I do not seem to have serious problems with Episodic memory (autobiographical memory of times, places, associated emotions, etc...) and even if I did, impaired episodic memory would not prevent me from learning the academic, occupational, etc....skills necessary to function on a level far higher than I do. So my latest theory involves developmental amnesia. Based upon everything i've read about it, developmental amnesia can result from early (at birth or not long after) Hypoxic-ischaemic injury which affects the Hippocampus (the part of the brain which plays an important role in long-term memory.) The Hippocampus is particularily vunerable to hypoxia. The problem is, much of the research seems to indicate that EPISODIC memory is often impaired after such an injury while both semantic and procedural memory remain largely, if not entirely, intact. I have read studies which would contradict that notion however, so deficits in semantic and/or procedural memory also seem to be within the realm of possibility in cases of developmental amnesia. As far as I know....both the cerebellum and basal ganglia can play a crucial role in both semantic and procedural memory as well. So let's just say i'm at a loss here *shrugs*


I have told everyone close to me about this. I have also tried to make my concerns in this regard clear to every psychologist i've ever seen. No one save myself seems to believe I have any substantial problems with my memory at all, long-term or otherwise. They either think i'm imagining it or think whatever memory issues I have are perfectly normal or at worst, not anything serious. Indeed, none of my results on any of the Weschler memory scales would indicate a serious memory impairment. ALL those scores were between average and superior. I'm really not sure how accurate the WAS are in determining LONG-TERM memory functioning though.


Needless to say....i'm profoundly depressed and equally perplexed. Some days I can't even muster up the desire to eat. I was employed for the past two years (as a retail salesperson making a paltry $200 per week) by a friend of the family who is aware of my difficulties and reasonably tolerant of them. This person was forced to lay me off four months ago simply because business was poor and he could no longer afford to employ anyone. So now i'm living in a gilded cage with my father and I haven't done anything for the past four months aside from watch TV, surf the web, sleep and read. As much as I dread it, I must get SOMEKIND of income soon. Not only because my father will no longer tolerate my inactivity, but because I wish to preserve an interpersonal situation which has become very important to me. Without going into further detail about it, the preservation of this situation, like just about everything else in life, requires SOME money. I MAY be eligible for SSI, but I am reluctant to apply because even if I received the maximum amount (somewhere around $600.00 per month I believe) it would not be enough. Furthermore, I need an income soon and even if i'm eligible for SSI, the approval process can take months, if not years. I realize you can be employed and still receive benefits, but that doesn't do me any good now due to the aforementioned delay in the approval process.


I am very sorry for this long and probably rather incoherent post. No doubt my entire life has been a desperate situation, but it's rarely, if ever, FELT this desperate before. I'm obviously too afraid of death and pain to commit suicide. Like just about every other human being, I once had countless hopes, dreams, aspirations and passions. At this age, I have absolutely no realistic hopes of attaining even the most meager of them. If I was 15 again and knew then what I know now, then PERHAPS life could've been substantially better for me. Therein lies the crux of the entire matter. I truly don't know if my life could've been any different by dint of extra effort, better choices, etc.....ad infinitum on my part. Obviously I do have some legitimate neuropsychological problems, but so do millions who have fared light years better than myself. I'm not a big believer in "free will" but nevertheless, part of me believes that the inexpressible nightmare that is my existence is largely "my fault". If it isn't.........then I have undiagnosed problems with my brain that are rare, highly idiosyncratic and immeasurably devastating. If a goodly portion was/is somehow within my control, then I must be the biggest masochist who ever walked the face of the earth. Or I just must be the laziest, most unmotivated, etc.....person who ever did. I can't imagine any human being WILLING a life like mine upon themselves. If i'm paying some sort of Karma debt, then I must have been Hitler or some equally monstrous figure in a past life.

Well....enough of the irrational ramblings.....I am not asking anyone to help me fulfill any of my long-dead dreams, ambitions, etc.... What I am looking for is some insight....insight into the absurd riddle which is my brain. I realize that WrongPlanet may not be the most logical and viable resource for said insight, but unfortunately my financial limitations do not allow for more viable and logical resources. The most I could afford is yet another on-paper neuropsych evaluation and i'm certain that wouldn't tell me anything beyond what other four already have. I cannot afford a fMRI scan or any similar diagnostic procedure (and i'm not even sure THAT could tell me much of anything.) I have been lurking around wrongplanet for months and many of you seem pretty knowledgeable in regards to NVLD, AS/ASD and all things pertaining to human psychology in general. That said, WP seemed like as good a source for info as any with respect to my financial limitations.

In sum.....maybe all my problems CAN be explained by the NVLD. If so.....then I appear to be one of Dr. Rourke's absolute worst-case scenarios.

This is from Dr. Rourke's book "Nonverbal Learning Disabilities....the syndrome and the model".


"Adaptability is the raison d' etre of brain-behavior development. Deficiencies in adaptability are, essentially, deficiencies in learning. In this sense, the rather devastating set of learning problems experienced by the person who exhibits NLD are among the very worst that can be imagined from a psychological perspective. The social and vocational incompetence, the withdrawl, and the psychic pain are terminal adaptive manifestions of failures of learning. These are all manifestations of the fact that talk is very cheap when compared to the richness of adaptive learning".


This statement appears tailor-made for me.....this may sound terribly presumptous of me, but it's hard to imagine anyone who has ever suffered psychologically as much as I have all these long years.


So... ummm....yeah...i'm not seeking pity... but I am seeking insight. Is it REALLY possible that NLD ALONE is at the root of all my problems? Do any of you know of any other NLD adults who IQ scores are not substantially lower than my own who function as poorly as I do? Do you think I may have a severe and officially undiagnosed problem with long-term memory (especially semantic and procedural) along with NLD? Does anyone think i've exagerrated (consciously and/or subconsciously) my neuropsych problems to the nth degree for whatever god-awful reason?


Any insight anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks in advance

I have always experienced some similar problems. The only things I have been officially diagnosed with are ones that could be considered co-morbid to AS. I know that when I was tested as a child that my reading speed far surpassed my comprehension level. I read almost preternaturally well and I understand what I'm reading when I'm reading it but I retain almost nothing. Is this what you experience? It's called Hyperlexia. I have difficulty understanding simple instructions. I think this is because I can think of too many interpretations. I remember procedures only if I actually perform an action several times but I lose it if I don't use it. I have always had low level jobs but I'm not sure whether this more a matter of lack of confidence or an intuition of my inability to handle mental stress. Even in low level jobs where I've been required to quickly prioritize things in order of importance, my mind goes blank. I have a poor working memory and problems with executive dysfunction. I personally think you have more insight into all of this than I do. I was interested to learn more about memory from your post. Stick around- I'm sure you will find people here who have some insights to offer. Welcome to Wrong Planet.

I have also been Dx-ed with schizotypal PD, mathematics disorder (which I GUESS is the formal term for Dyscalculia...but I could be wrong) Major depression, (recurrent-moderate-in full remission.) The DSM-IV does not specify disorders co-morbid to AS, but I suppose schizotypal PD and major depression could be among them. My reading speed is quite good and based upon all my test results, I don't appear to have any major troubles with reading comprehension. As far as understanding what i'm reading as i'm reading it......that entirely depends upon the material in question. Advanced science is a mystery to me, but then again, i've never taken any science courses beyond the basics. I did well enough in all my college classes save aside from math. I attempted Algebra I twice in college and dropped it both times. As far as retention, it really depends on how we're defining the term. For example....I took general biology in college. I would study several chapters the night before an exam and I would be able retain enough to pass the test the next day (got a C in the class.) The questions were all multiple choice however, so in that sense, my memory was "cued". Now if someone asked me to EXPLAIN everything I read that very same day, I doubt I could remember much. In other words, if I was forced to write a paper on everything I read in chapters 1-3 in biology strictly from memory, I could never do it. As far as my understanding of simple instructions, again, it depends on how we're defining "simple instructions". I am the same way with any kind of procedures. If you don't mind me asking.....how old are you aimless? I have had a degrading lifetime of low-level jobs and as difficult as it was financially, I have often been happier (relatively speaking) during my periods (which have often encompassed years at a time) of unemployment. I have no confidence whatsoever nor much ability to handle mental stress. I am utterly terrified over the prospect of working again. The last job I had was infinitely less than ideal of course, but all things considered it was the best position I ever held. Keep in mind this WAS a family friend who was employing me and he was both sympathetic and tolerant of my issues for the most part. I am essentially unemployable otherwise and i'm going to have a whale of time even finding a "Mcjob". OVR will either fund a disabled person's education up to BA degree or help find them employment. Since further education is out of the question for me right now, I am going to try and see if OVR can help me find a job. Otherwise, I will be like a sheep among wolves trying to find employment on my own. In this case, you're often damned if you don't tell them about your disability and equally damned if you do. At any rate, i'm pretty sure any remotely savvy employer will know SOMETHING is amiss when a 40 y/o is applying for the busboy position (or whatever) they have open. My working memory seems to be pretty decent actually. It's the long-term semantic/procedural memory issues that concern me regardless of whether i'm exagerrating them (I don't feel I do so CONSCIOUSLY at least) or there really is some defacto neurological problem which impairs my LTM.

The pain and shame involved in revealing my disability to anyone other than those i'm close (or in the clinical setting) to is yet another joy. The prospect of working with a bunch of HS/college students in some menial job is hardly a pleasant one. I'm pretty good at hiding my disability from everyone. But again, all those HS/college students are going to know i'm mentally f**ked-up in some serious way if my 40 y/o hide is joining them in their floor-moping duties.


And yet NT's criticize me for wanting to remain unemployed. I wonder how they would feel if "Mcjobs" were their only employment options in middle-age. I feel like I don't have any insight into anything anymore....all of existence is ultimately mystery to me. I will be sticking around though I can't honestly say how much i'll be able to post. I hope to god I can get some insight into myself here. The insight the "professionals" have given me leaves something to be desired. I'm not saying it would be an unconditional joy to find out i'm *more* disabled than the "professionals" (though I believe I am anyway)....but on the other hand, i'd really like a clearer understanding of what i've been up against all these years.

I'm just not 100% certain whether i've been my own worst enemy all these years or if my problems are strictly neurological/deterministic in origin.

The former would make me "preternaturally" (to steal your apt term) self-abusive and the latter would mean things could've never been much different no matter what.


Oddly enough....I don't know which explanation would be easier to bear.


Would I rather know myself as the laziest, most unmotivated, most "I-give-up" (< i've done quite a bit of "giving up" in my life...often before I even began any given thing) person who has ever lived or a merely mentally inferior one who never stood a snowball's chance?

Neither choice sounds very appealing.

I guess labels just don't explain one's daily functioning. That's not what they are for. Labels like NLD/AS/etc. are just descriptions of symptom categories/problems, or in some cases even just get diagnosed with neuropsych tests that have little validity in the external world.

My own diagnosis is Asperger's and I am blind. Neither of these can truly explain all my issues, but these are just the labels that can be stuck on me. I function way poorer than most with AS and most who are blind, and don't know enough blind/AS people to compar emyself to (but the few I do know, function better than I do), but I don't really care.

Considering my case, if NVLD ALONE is truly the root of ALL my problems, then it would seem labels are totally meaningless. I say this because while I may have some "baseline" commonalities with others who have NVLD, I function at a ridiculously low level while most other NLD-er's do not. Over the past 12 years I have encountered a few other NLD adults who don't seem to function any better than myself, but they are the rare exception rather than the rule. It is possible that these few individuals scored much lower on their IQ tests than I ever have though. If so, then that would most likely account for their *low-functioning*.

So again....the reason this is so mystifying to me is because my own IQ test results are no worse (and sometimes even better) than many NLD-er's i've met who function at an INFINITELY higher level than myself in most, if not all, areas of life.


That said....I think it's perfectly reasonable for me to believe that NVLD is only part of the story in my particular case. Indeed, I think it's very likely that it's an EXTREMELY small part.

Serious long-term memory impairment could be caused by a TBI (Traumatic Brain Injury), a rare form of early dementia...etc.

Is it getting worse? Did you inherit this condition at birth? How was elementary school? Do you have headaches? A foggy brain?

You might have seen the movie named "The Lookout" (2007). Can you relate to the main character Chris Pratt?

Yes... LTM impairment can be caused by TBI or a tumor. I've never had a TBI. Unless early Hypoxic-Ischaemic injury is classified as a TBI and I don't think it is. Since said "injury" occurs at birth or not long after, i'm not sure how it's even a suspected cause for LTM impairment aside from later neuropsychological testing. I personally have reason to believe my LTM has never been normal, but I have NO reason to think it's gotten any worse no matter how bad it was in the first place. Again...unless i'm unconsciously creating this problem or at least exagerrating it (and I really don't know if that's possible or not) then it's never been normal. Keep in mind all of the beliefs about my impaired LTM stem from my own self-observations alone as well as my observations of what appears to be the LTM capabilities of most others. NO ONE, mental health professionals or otherwise, has ever suggested I have a problem with my LTM. Assuming I do have this problem, there's no evidence to suggest I inherited it. The headaches I had (and have) don't seem to be any greater in frequency or severity than the headaches most people deal with. I got through elementary school with few academic difficulties. I was never held back a grade and never had to attend summer school. Most of my significant academic problems arose when I was faced with higher math and science courses from Junior high through college. I never passed Algebra I and never even took it before college. My neuropsych results DO indicate a problem with math. While I scored in the average range in the Arithmetic subtests (which is on the Verbal section of the WAIS) this is a RELATIVE weakness considering all my other VIQ scores are either Superior or Above-average. This in itself is very common for people with NLD, so there is no reason to think my problems are exceptionally severe based upon that alone.

My math achievement scores on all these neuropsych tests have always been significantly below grade-equivalent. I have never obtained math scores beyond 9th grade on any of the psychoeducational batteries on the four neuropsych exams i've taken. Nonetheless, EVERY psychologist who tested me claimed that I possess the CAPABILITY to handle high school level math and most likely beyond. All I know is that I took Algebra twice in college, struggled with it, and dropped it both times because I knew I was going to fail. Now these experiences alone do not PROVE higher math (Algebra and beyond) is totally beyond my capacity no matter how hard I try and/or how it's taught to me. I honestly don't know for certain though it would be nice (for once) to KNOW I possess the capacity to grasp higher mathematics. At this point....it MIGHT be nice to know SOMETHING about my ultimate cognitive/intellectual capabilites beyond what I already know. Yep...it might be nice to know SOMETHING even if that "something" is negative. Living with a neuropsychological mystery has become as unbearable as all the other unbearable circumstances of my life.

I have never seen "The Lookout", but I might have to check it out. Most people, both the *experts* and others, believe all my issues are related to NLD and that I could/should be functioning at a much higher level than I always have. I, on the other hand, believe it's very likely the *experts* have grossly "underdiagnosed" me and therefore, profoundly underestimated my neuropsychological problems.

I personally have known there was SOMETHING wrong with my brain since I was 7 or 8 years old. Nobody ever told me there was, everyone just thought I was lazy, unmotivated, rebellious, emotionally disturbed, etc....I was 28 y/o when I was finally *diagnosed* with NLD at the psychological services center of a major and respected private university. So after all those years, *everyone* was proven wrong and I was proven right. After all, an NLD diagnosis DOES mean there's something at least ABNORMAL about one's brain even if abnormal is not always synonymous with "wrong".

In a sense, I correctly diagnosed myself when I was 14 y/o. Many years ago, some psychologists used to propose a personality disorder known as, "Immature-Inadequate Personality Disorder". To the best of my knowledge, this PD has never been officially recognized by the APA, it's not in the current edition of the DSM and I don't believe it was in any of the older ones. Nevertheless, when I was 14, I read about it in some encyclopedia which was laying around my Grandfather's house. The characteristics of this dubious personality disorder described me better than any other mental disorder I had read about up until that time. Since I had been both mystified and worried by my difficulties since I was 7 or 8, I had read quite a bit about abnormal psychology by the time I happened upon the description of this personality disorder. This was a "Eureka moment" for me, but no one else took me seriously after I insisted I finally discovered the source of my problems. Well...I never could find any further information about this "personality disorder" UNTIL I read Dr. Rourke's "Non-Verbal Learning Disabilities, the syndrome and the model". I read the book immediately after I was diagnosed with NLD at 28. I had never even heard the term "Non-Verbal Learning Disability" before then. Without being able to quote Rourke verbatim, he claimed that psychologists in the past might have viewed those with NLD as, "Immature-Inadquate deliquents". Needless to say, very few people within and without the mental health community knew anything about NLD 1983. Some psychologists once believed there was a specific personality disorder known as "Immature-Inadquate PD" though.

So yes....in this sense....I accurately self-diagnosed myself at 14. Nobody ever gave me the slightest bit of credit for it then. Nor did anyone seem to be too broken-up when I was finally diagnosed with NLD at 28. I was right all along and everyone else (my family and the psychologists I saw before I had my first neuropsych evaluation) was wrong. You would think someone would take my self-insights seriously after all this, but they still don't. Now I firmly believe I have NLD, but after many more years of self-observation, I also firmly believe that NLD may only be part of the story in my case and possibly, not even the most crucial part of it. Still.....no one is listening....my self-insight counts for absolutely nothing even though I was right about myself before and they were all wrong. In one sense I hope i'm wrong. That is...I hope my own *low-functioning* can be attributed less to NLD and more to things which within my power to change. Fair enough....so that would make me not as impaired as I think may be, but what else would it make me? It would make me the laziest, most unmotivated, weak-willed, etc.... person who ever lived. So i'm faced with the choice of believing I might as well be defacto mentally ret*d for as well my brain allows me to function or that i'm largely, if not entirely, to blame for my unspeakably miserable existence.

Perhaps you can see how this state of affairs could result in inexpressible psychological anguish for a person eh?

If I could afford it....I would undergo the most extensive neuropsychological examination possible including fMRI's and whatever else. I have private insurance which is paid for by my father, but it doesn't cover any psychiatric care and he is unwilling to pay extra for a plan that does. It's bad enough that I can't get any satisfaction out of life. I can't live independently, have decent-paying career, a college education, a girlfriend, talents, etc...

You would think all of this would be horrific enough and I can assure you...it is. I guess knowing why... FOR CERTAIN... ONCE AND FOR ALL...I can't/don't have anything approaching a decent life is too much ask as well.

Truth is stranger and far more ugly than fiction. Maybe that's why only a few have responded in this thread. My lifestory and my problems are simply beyond belief. As hard as many people with NLD/AS/ASD have it, I seem to be the absolute bottom of the barrel. I wake up everyday and wonder (not literally of course as i'm not psychotic, sometimes I wish I was. It might be nice escape.) if i'm living inside the nightmare to end all nightmares.

I saw your posts earlier and couldn't respond because it's quite a lot to digest... and I have to admit I did skim through some (not because I don't care, but because of attention issues).

I wanted to say that you are obviously intelligent.

I'm intelligent as well, and score pretty high on most tests, but I lack something that would allow me to grasp higher math and logic constructs, so I'm useless at things like physics and programming, even though I would like to be good at them. I can also remember a lot of information, but I can't remember that I put water on to boil until I smell the smoke from the melting pan on the stove. I have to set a timer or I'll just forget.

I also wanted to ask how you are at art.

I had to join just to respond to you.

I can understand why you got such a negative outlook on this. I have something related to this. I'm not sure what it is but almost certain I have AS. You would be amazed at what a little exercise (be it weight lifting or running) and supplementation can do for the brain. Also eating a diet high in protein. Exercise above all though because you need to get that blood flowing and get oxygen to the brain. There are plenty of supplements you can use too. For example I take Omega 3, lecithin, gingko biloba along with saint johns wart (for depression). You can also try Acetyl L-carnitine, which is just an amino acid that your brain loves to use for energy. A little caffeine a day wouldn't hurt you either. Above all exercise and your memory will improve.

It looks like you can put together sentences and express things very clearly. I have a fog when it comes to self expression. I'm actually very confused on what I am at all because theres too many thoughts. Even as I type this I'm thinking too fast for my typing so sorry if I get off topic. But you do seem to be a good writer so why not try majoring in english and becoming a teacher? Just a thought and ofcourse I don't know if that would be right for you because I'm not you.

Lately I've read that researchers are finding out that the human brain does reproduce brain cells and neurogenesis is a possibility. Feed your brain with learning new things as often as possible. Exercise to give your brain enough oxygen (even if it's only 10 mins a day). Feed your brain with food and vitamins.

No worries I wasn't "lusting for results" when I wrote this post. I just figured I share my story, hope for the best in terms of insight and let the chips fall where they may. I am very sorry for the length of my posts, but the complexity of it all doesn't seem to allow (at least I don't seem able to sum things up in a few words) for something more succinct. At this point, I don't think it's necessary to say anything else about my "obvious intelligence" itself. All I know for certain is what all my tests results said about my IQ. Whether they've somehow been over-inflated is another story.
I don't know how I managed to obtain an FSIQ of 143 on the most recent test I took considering my highest score other than that was 116. So i'll just steer clear of the whole IQ muddle itself for now.

Do you have any insight into your own issues with higher math, physics, etc....? Have you undergone any neuropsychological testing yourself? It sounds like your own memory problems might be limited to working memory. Like I said, my own memory issues (assuming i'm not just imagining them) seem to limited to LTM and specifically, semantic and procedural memory.

I think we both know that IQ and memory are often mutually exculsive. From all that i've read about it, IQ can remain perfectly intact (normal or greater) in cases of developemental amnesia even if semantic and/or procedural memory is seriously impaired. It's one thing to read William Shirer's "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" and comprehend everything you read AS you're reading. It's entirely different matter to retain anything substantial about what you've read minutes, if not seconds, after putting the book down. The latter seems to be my problem insofar as memory issues themselves are concerned. Learning could be defined as both the comprehension and the retention/recall of whatever it is a person has comprehended. I might have some issues comprehending certain things but I don't think i'd be functioning at the level I am if I could retain and recall the many things I do comprehend.

For example, maybe a person could never comprehend physics well enough to become a physics professor no matter how hard they tried. But maybe they could've been a history professor if they could actually retain/recall most of what they studied about history in college and grad school.


I suck at art....there's nobody who could be much worse. I'm lucky if I can pull off a good stick figure. I play a little guitar, but not very well and i've playing on/off (mostly off) for 25 years. I never took more than five lessons though and I don't know how to read music. I played trombone for awhile in elementary school and I learned how to read music JUST well enough to allow me to play the star-spangled banner. Beyond that, it started to get hard, I got frustrated and just gave up. I won't try and pretend I haven't given up very easily countless times in my life, learning to read formal musical notation is just one example of many.

Did you have your hemoglobin level checked? Have you got other symptoms, physical symptoms?

I've had them checked before, they were within normal levels. I don't have any physical symptoms...never did. My physical health has always been pretty good overall. The only problem I have in that area is Acid reflux disorder.

I have no insight right now, but I'm going to see a neurologist in Nov.

I'm just starting to understand the differences in memory, since I had my daughter assessed and found she has really slow processing speed. I think probably do to, for some things. I sometimes have issues with what I read... it may go into long-term storage, it may be indexed properly for a while and then go missing, it may end up as a vague shadow that seems like it should be familiar, or it may just get lost. I can usually remember conversations very well, however, unless I'm really distraught, so there may be something going on between visual and auditory memory processing that I'll become aware of during my assessments.

I hear so many people say that! I'm an artist and I suck at a lot of artsy things. the reason I brought it up is that it engages a different part of my brain, so I think it's good to do some form of visual arts even if you feel like you suck at it... I mean, look at Jackson Pollock I also decided to learn to play the ukulele for the same reason, to see if I could stimulate another unused part of my brain. so far I still suck at it, but slowly I'm learning to detect beat and measure in music, so I think it's been good for me.

I can relate to your feelings of frustration. I once thought I had a promising future, but I keep hitting a ceiling in what I can do functionally. it really bothers me. I was 40 before I could hold a job that challenged my intellect without overwhelming me with stuff and noise and chaos and unpredictabilty, or sheer boredom. I managed to keep it for 2 years because I blended in with the nerds and expectations were for the most part consistent. since then, I've failed at everything and I would really like to find a place where I can fit in and work at something meaningful to me and earn a living.

bhetti wrote:

This is the story of my life. Can I ask what kind of job it was?

software technical support. I'm hoping the skills I learned will help me transition into the law field, because law is an area of special interest.

Hi, Horus. I'm sorry to hear you're struggling so much with your situation. You're clearly in a very bad place right now. I was wondering, what is the main problem that you have in your jobs- i.e., what is the main reason you get fired? It seems unlikely that long term memory deficits would play a part in that, although short term memory deficits certainly might. Many NLDers have trouble keeping jobs, and a lot of times the trouble seems to come from interpersonal difficulties at work, not being able to "play the game" socially at work, difficulty with working or short-term memory, or difficulty learning new tasks (procedural memory). Do you have any of these difficulties? There is a good book out there called "Employment for Individuals with Asperger Syndrome or Nonverbal Learning Disability." You might want to check it out- it is a bunch of personal stories told by people with AS and NLD about their difficulties in the workplace.

Did you have a hypoxic brain injury at birth, and you are hypothesizing that it caused memory problems, or are you guessing about a brain injury based on your memory problems? You should be able to see a brain injury like that on an MRI (not an fMRI in particular, just a regular MRI), so if you could get a brain MRI somehow you could test that theory. Although, maybe a minor injury wouldn't show up.

Also, are you sure that your problem is in long-term memory, and not short-term memory? Reading something and immediately after not recalling the details is actually short-term, not long-term memory. A long-term memory deficit would be forgetting something that you had previously known in the past (more than a few days before). For example, I am a speech therapist, and I have a patient who actually had an anoxic brain injury 5 months ago (oxygen deprivation during a heart attack), and she has severe long-term memory deficits. She is able to build some limited memories about what happens in her day to day life (very limited), but can't even recall the most basic details about her life before the brain injury, such as the names of her children, her age, or her address. Anoxia (and hypoxia also presumably) tends to cause widespread injury in the brain, so she also has language problems, fairly unintelligible speech, and severe physical problems. Do you have any other issues besides memory?