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Nightsun
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05 Oct 2009, 4:40 pm

Aspie here.
I was very logical by young and very very intelligent (first time I did IQ test was at 7 y-old and scored 125). And my mum had the same problem as you. Basically she thinked that because I was able to read physics book, and actually go to school for "sport" i was "really" an adult. Well intelligence/logic and wisdom are 2 different things. I crushed on cars 4 times in my life (without any real problem) and I did things that If I see my daughter do that I'll go nuts.

A things that worked to me was the following (obviosly not instantly):

- I must care of you by law, If you don't look at the road before going on, I must infer that you are unable to care so from now I'll take your hands like mums do with young children.

It was a so much a chess-mate for me that I simply started to watch for cars (after a while that I have understood that my parents said that for true).

As for lurking alone, my mother let me do it when I was 7 so I don't know.


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irishwhistle
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05 Oct 2009, 5:24 pm

Nightsun wrote:
Aspie here.
A things that worked to me was the following (obviosly not instantly):

- I must care of you by law, If you don't look at the road before going on, I must infer that you are unable to care so from now I'll take your hands like mums do with young children.


This illustrates the methods we've been learning. Logic is very important in modifying behavior, but not in the sense that you have to give your kid a logical and lengthy reason for everything. That was my mistake too often... I need reasons so I figured they did. Well, they like 'em, but they are not always interested. And the more you talk, the less they hear. So you keep it short and to the point. "If you walk out in front of a car, it'll hurt. Neither of us would like that." Once that message has been conveyed, however, you don't need to go into it anymore. Now they know why. What you need now is to know how to correct the behavior.

And that part is fairly simple. If they behave in an unacceptable manner, you impose logical consequences. Some of these take care of themselves, and you just have to pull back and let them happen, but in the case of safety, sometimes you have to create consequences for their protection. If the kid is engaging in dangerous behavior, they are removed from the situation with a brief, calm explanation that makes it clear that they, not you, made the choice, "Since you don't want to play safely, you'll have to come in," and are told they can try again next time.

I find that sometimes my kids suggest dangerous actions and wait to see if they get a reaction. If your response is calm and somewhat detached, you can avoid helping them to persist in the behavior. It's often an unconscious way of getting attention. "If mom thinks I'm going to run into the street, she'll give me her attention and talk to me for a long time." They don't even realize it, but they do it. So you don't point it out to them, what they're doing, you just don't make a fuss when they do. "If you don't want to act safely around traffic, then I'll have to hold your hand until you decide to be careful." Your feelings, his feelings, what will happen if he gets hit, all basically unnecessary and excessive. Just plain stuff... you choose wisely or you lose the privilege of choosing until next time.

That it is their choice is essential.


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05 Oct 2009, 10:44 pm

When I was little, I kept running out in parking lots and streets and mom kept telling me I would get hit by a car. That must have been a challenge for her because I wasn't listening. Yeah I knew what she was saying but I didn't comprehend it. I can remember her yelling after me and to look both ways and claiming I get hit by a car. Then she told me this story one day about when I was little we were in the car and a bug hit the windshield and it went SPLAT and my mom pointed to it and said this is what happened to me when I get hit by a car. The bug hit the windshield and turned into that bug and that's what happens to me. My eyes went wide. That showed me.



makuranososhi
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05 Oct 2009, 11:29 pm

When logic failed, consequences worked best for me. My reasoning worked differently than my parents and other family, but I grew to understand that there were rules - even if I didn't understand or agree - that affected these consequences on me. How to implement that can vary, but just wanted to share my experience.


M.


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MommyJones
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06 Oct 2009, 9:26 am

Thank you Everyone for your information! I always knew Logan cared about things, but it confuses me when it seems that he doesn't. He is so smart, and sometimes I just don't understand why he doesn't get some things, but is so good about others. I have a little bit better idea why that is. He is young...isn't he?

As always, I have more insight into this problem and I feel better about being able to deal with it. The car thing he is pretty good now. I still don't trust him, but I always praise him for looking. He has actually stopped me before so I know he gets that....he just forgets once in a while and I can understand that.

The running away is so much harder. I have worked on that longer and more often than the car, and he just won't stick with me. I think I understand a little more now why I have such a hard time with that one, and I have some ideas and insight to work with. I don't think I praise him as much for staying with me, and I think I need to do that more, and I'm just going to have to apply consequences and not worry about what he understands. I feel bad about getting lost in the corn maze, I've never used a scare tactic before, but I do know now it doesn't work. With your insight I can see why.

Thank you so much for helping me with this. Wish me luck!



DenvrDave
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06 Oct 2009, 10:04 am

makuranososhi thanks for sharing. What you described is very consistent with the backpressure I get from my son. I feel like a broken record* when I say over and over again: "Yes I agree that the rules are stupid, and no you don't have to agree with the rules, but you do have to follow them anyway." :D



*For those readers under 35, a record is an old-fashioned iPod prone to repeating a phrase or section over and over again due to mechanical failure.



MommyJones
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06 Oct 2009, 10:51 am

DenvrDave wrote:
makuranososhi thanks for sharing. What you described is very consistent with the backpressure I get from my son. I feel like a broken record* when I say over and over again: "Yes I agree that the rules are stupid, and no you don't have to agree with the rules, but you do have to follow them anyway." :D

*For those readers under 35, a record is an old-fashioned iPod prone to repeating a phrase or section over and over again due to mechanical failure.


Sometimes I think this is my mantra. That and, "everywhere you go you have rules, and you have no choice but to follow them" The nice thing is, if he understands why the rule is in place, he's totally compliant. Some things are really easy and that's nice.

BTW: I actually had a friend of a friend ask me what a 45 was. I felt ancient



DW_a_mom
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06 Oct 2009, 12:58 pm

DenvrDave wrote:
makuranososhi thanks for sharing. What you described is very consistent with the backpressure I get from my son. I feel like a broken record* when I say over and over again: "Yes I agree that the rules are stupid, and no you don't have to agree with the rules, but you do have to follow them anyway." :D



*For those readers under 35, a record is an old-fashioned iPod prone to repeating a phrase or section over and over again due to mechanical failure.


OMG, I can SOOOO relate, to BOTH parts, I truly am LOL!! !!

PS - I really, really enjoy having you on this forum. I hope you'll stick around a long, long time. I'm kind of committed to this place, myself - the fact they gave me mod tools may have something to do with that.


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Last edited by DW_a_mom on 06 Oct 2009, 1:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

DW_a_mom
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06 Oct 2009, 12:59 pm

MommyJones wrote:

BTW: I actually had a friend of a friend ask me what a 45 was. I felt ancient


Aren't we all? ;)

We grew up .... into .... THEM, lol!


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irishwhistle
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06 Oct 2009, 3:39 pm

MommyJones wrote:

Sometimes I think this is my mantra. That and, "everywhere you go you have rules, and you have no choice but to follow them" The nice thing is, if he understands why the rule is in place, he's totally compliant. Some things are really easy and that's nice.


The phrase "you have no choice but to follow them" is all it takes to call out my son. I have no choice, do I? That's what he's thinking. And then he proceeds to show you that he does. This is why we've been working with the offering of choices. It's a matter of survival! If he made the choice, he has nothing on us. Mind you, it doesn't always work. But then, we're new at it.

When I was younger (shoot, even now) the match to the kindling was anything along the lines of "you have to" or "you need to" or similar. Oh, I do, do I? I try to be mature about it but I still fail sometimes.



DenvrDave
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06 Oct 2009, 4:13 pm

DW, thanks, I've really enjoyed participating and I've learned so much in such a short time. This has been super rewarding, and I intend to give back to the community more than I have taken, so I don't expect to be leaving anytime soon. I may go dormant from time to time, but I'm in this for the long haul.

By the way, what do the five squares, bird-references, and other words underneath the screen-name on posts mean?



06 Oct 2009, 5:29 pm

When I have a kid and if he or she has issues of following rules he or she doesn't agree with. I would be telling him or her about consequences of not following a rule, rather it's an aspie or not. Like the rule about wearing hats in class. Lot of kids think it's a stupid rule so some of them disobey it and I am sure teachers don't follow that rule either in their class because they also agree it's a silly pointless rule. But if my kid's teacher had a policy about wearing hats in class and my child didn't agree with that rule because it's silly and doesn't make any sense. I would tell my child about what will happen if he kept wearing his hat in class, the teacher can take it from him and keep it and not give it back till the end of the school year. Does he want to not have his hat for the rest of the year?

Another example would be driving and there are hardly cars on the road. My child thinks it's illogical to go the speed limit if there are no cars and the road is straight so I can go as fast as I want. I would tell him there may be no other cars on the road but I still have to go the speed limit because there could be a cop hiding and if he catches me going past the speed limit, he will pull me over and give me a ticket and we have less spending money for fun. We wouldn't rent videos for a while or buy dessert or go out for ice cream or go to places because I had to pay for the ticket and it costs a lot, almost my entire paycheck and I need the money to pay for our home and electric and cable and internet. If I can't pay those, then we be living without electricity and no more internet. My kid might not like the idea without electricity if he is used to TV and video games and computer and listening to his stereo.

My teen could think following pointless rules at work is illogical so I would tell him if he doesn't follow rules at work and do what his boss says, he can lose his job and it can make it harder for him to get another job because he have to put down references and work history and the work place calls his old workplace to see what kind of worker he was. When they hear how he doesn't listen, they won't want to hire him so they would never bother calling him for an interview and I do not want him living with me without a job when he out of high school and isn't in college.


I think this teaches aspies to follow rules and it makes them learn to follow illogical rules because of consequences. Parents be screwed if the child didn't care about consequences like getting a ticket, no electricity, being kicked out for not being able to work due to refusing to follow rules, not caring if their hat gets taken by teacher.
I would be teaching my aspie or normal child about if they want to face a consequence or not and the only way to avoid them is following rules. As a kid, this was logical enough for me. Once I knew what would happen if I did X, I wouldn't do it knowing what punishment I'd get and I didn't want that to happen so I followed directions.



DW_a_mom
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06 Oct 2009, 5:34 pm

DenvrDave wrote:
By the way, what do the five squares, bird-references, and other words underneath the screen-name on posts mean?


Those are set to reflect how long / how much you've been posting. I believe it fills out at 500 posts when you become a phoenix. The ranks were set long before my time.

I think its at 1000 posts that it becomes customizable but I've never been able to come up with anything good to put there instead.


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Last edited by DW_a_mom on 06 Oct 2009, 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CRD
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06 Oct 2009, 5:35 pm

Spokane_Girl wrote:
When I have a kid and if he or she has issues of following rules he or she doesn't agree with. I would be telling him or her about consequences of not following a rule, rather it's an aspie or not. Like the rule about wearing hats in class. Lot of kids think it's a stupid rule so some of them disobey it and I am sure teachers don't follow that rule either in their class because they also agree it's a silly pointless rule. But if my kid's teacher had a policy about wearing hats in class and my child didn't agree with that rule because it's silly and doesn't make any sense. I would tell my child about what will happen if he kept wearing his hat in class, the teacher can take it from him and keep it and not give it back till the end of the school year. Does he want to not have his hat for the rest of the year?

Another example would be driving and there are hardly cars on the road. My child thinks it's illogical to go the speed limit if there are no cars and the road is straight so I can go as fast as I want. I would tell him there may be no other cars on the road but I still have to go the speed limit because there could be a cop hiding and if he catches me going past the speed limit, he will pull me over and give me a ticket and we have less spending money for fun. We wouldn't rent videos for a while or buy dessert or go out for ice cream or go to places because I had to pay for the ticket and it costs a lot, almost my entire paycheck and I need the money to pay for our home and electric and cable and internet. If I can't pay those, then we be living without electricity and no more internet. My kid might not like the idea without electricity if he is used to TV and video games and computer and listening to his stereo.

My teen could think following pointless rules at work is illogical so I would tell him if he doesn't follow rules at work and do what his boss says, he can lose his job and it can make it harder for him to get another job because he have to put down references and work history and the work place calls his old workplace to see what kind of worker he was. When they hear how he doesn't listen, they won't want to hire him so they would never bother calling him for an interview and I do not want him living with me without a job when he out of high school and isn't in college.


I think this teaches aspies to follow rules and it makes them learn to follow illogical rules because of consequences. Parents be screwed if the child didn't care about consequences like getting a ticket, no electricity, being kicked out for not being able to work due to refusing to follow rules, not caring if their hat gets taken by teacher.
I would be teaching my aspie or normal child about if they want to face a consequence or not and the only way to avoid them is following rules. As a kid, this was logical enough for me. Once I knew what would happen if I did X, I wouldn't do it knowing what punishment I'd get and I didn't want that to happen so I followed directions.

sounds right to me :).



gramirez
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06 Oct 2009, 5:59 pm

DenvrDave wrote:
*For those readers under 35, a record is an old-fashioned iPod prone to repeating a phrase or section over and over again due to mechanical failure.

Actually, most of the younger generation DOES know what records are, what with vinyl supposedly making a comeback.


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