Spirituality and autism?

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tech wrote:

Plants contain spirit too, but I wouldn't call them spiritual. All people contain spirit, but some just aren't spiritual. Go ahead and ask around if you don't believe me. It's not a badge of honor to call oneself spiritual as much as it is a conscious recognition of it or longing to understanding it better.

Saying that one is spiritual is like saying one is musical. Spiritual people spend lots of time reading about spiritual matters, reflecting on spiritual matters, and feeling the agony and ecstasy of spirituality which brings them closer to something that is described as being divine in some nature. This may be delusional, maybe not. People once thought that Louis Pasteur was delusional for thinking that germs exist. Who cares if it's delusional anyway? If the delusion doesn't hurt anyone but brings more meaning to life, why is that so bad?

Mmmm...indifferent. I think we just are what we are because of who we are, you can describe spirituality as a personal trait but, I agree with mgram - its not something to be on a high horse about. As you said - if plants have it, if getting to humans Lady Gaga and Souljah Bwoy have it - its irrelevant in a status chase kind of sense. You can describe yourself as more attuned, if it helps you know yourself better, just that its more definitive of how we were sent here (for whatever reasons we likely chose outside this realm that we don't have many clues to here - likely a deliberate choice made by all); more construct of our experience than being any kind of specific bragging right.

To any sensible person, who prefers reason and logic to word salads and fuzz-ball confusion.

ruveyn

From your take on things, Merriam Webster's dictionary is absolutely filled with amorphous adjectives and nouns that need to be flushed out, most having absolutely nothing to do with religion.

I'd agree with the people who've pointed out that we're all 'spiritual', none of us more so than any other. To put it in terms that don't involve anything supernatural or woo-woo at all, we all need to feel connected to something greater than ourselves, and we all need to find a sense that life has a meaning. How you put that doesn't really have much relevance. How it makes you treat your fellow beings definitely does. (Clue: if your 'spirituality' makes you crap on the heads of anyone who believes different, it may be time to step back and take another look at it.)

My own personal spirituality - and I call it that because it's eclectic enough that it doesn't fit under the umbrella of any organized religion - is private to me, not something I make a big deal of, and certainly not something I think would work for anyone else, let alone everyone. I think it may be AS that's led me to shy away from organized religion, for the simple reason that me and group dynamics don't tend to go together well. I've also always had a keen interest - not specifically an Aspie thing, but certainly a special interest for me from a fairly early age - in what you might call the 'backstage' stuff - the reasons why people believe what they believe, the thinking behind mythology and so forth - which has tended to make me unpopular with people who were happy to simply believe in a particular system. And yet, I still have a gut feeling that 'there's more to life than this'. Gut feelings can, of course, be wrong, but going with mine has proven to be more useful to me than following someone else's path.

Nay, ruveyn - that is your perspective, and that you presume to speak for others from your assumptions... I find that rather astounding.


M.

Im Spiritual I guess, when I will start to learn Baranta (Hungarian Martial Arts) I guess that is a spiritual thing being Magyar and all

I guess it is spiritual when you look at somethings in life as The Yin Yang, or even The Yin Yang Yuan Like I do sometimes

I sure Spiritual means basically all religions but no religion/s in particular, I have my own/shared philosophy with the Yin Yang, I believe in Karma, I believe in more than 1 god, I wear a Mary pendant but am not Catholic etc

I guess it means to take pieces of all religion and mix them together to suit you own unique beliefs

Im also Neo-Pagan and Polytheistic

Why is being spiritual like being on a high horse? It's not. I'm in the process of being diagnosed with schizophrenia or temporal lobe epilespy because of my beliefs. Nobody envies that and I don't think schizophrenics or epileptics are better than the normal people. The quesion was, does spirituality present itself differntly in autistics. It's an intersting question and I think it may show up differently. For example, the need to prove things as non-delusional presents a problem for spiritual autistics who would more likely believe their spiritual beliefs as being literal or struggle with the social consequences of their beliefs in a differnt way than normal NT's who don't find a need to prove the facts, but rather find validation through social acceptance via religion.

A person who is obsessed with music and describes himself as musical isn't necessarily on a high horse. It's just a human characteristic which somewhat defines the individual. You saying that spiritual people are narcisstic and on a high horse shows some sort of self contempt or some unknown defiance of an unknown source. I hope you get over it and stop being so judgmental.

I had my own thoughts on the OP as separate. I had simply quoted a member and reacted to their comments.



I don't. I only think its a problem if people try to use it as status-fodder.



Nothing here that I disagree with you on, though I don't know where I ever took the step in calling all 'spiritual' people narcissistic. If that's the case I just called myself a narcissist as well.

I like your reference to being musical though, that and artistry can easily go part in parcel, but I have to say the same thing on being musical - its fine, its an attribute and characteristic, but it would be and is just as tacky if I or someone else sees themselves as qualitatively superior to someone who isn't musical. Like with spirituality though, someone elses perception that you think your better doesn't mean its necessarily the case. If someone really does however think they're better and they know this themselves - that's when its a problem.

From my experience, it seems as though it is the atheists who claim to have special access powers to logic and reason and who seem to think that they are superior.

I still don't think everyone is spiritual. Is spirituality a matter of perception? Maybe we all have the same experiences but some of us interpret them differently. I'd guess that people who reject spiritualism may not have the same experiences that spiritual people have especially in cases where emotions come into play. Some people are non-emotional and see things practically. They are guilty of rational delusions just as the emotional types are guilty of their own wishful thinking delusions.

Here's a thread that comes to mind on that one:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt99395.html



I'd really suspect that - given there is spirituality in an eternal sense (at least by our best figuring) and that we all have souls, it suggests that we're here for different reasons and given different proclivities - likely completely independent of any sort of 'salvation' issues. I tend to believe in a God but with something of a Buddhist lesson to life if that makes any sense, or at least that we're here to learn things that we couldn't possibly learn if we were in a painless environment - that would of course be book smarts without the reality. This is exactly why though, then again, while I see myself as emotionally oriented in a way - on a lot of levels - that's not of this earth and if anything seems more transcendental, I say that with the understanding that if we're all from the realm of magnificence, beauty, and eternally ascending gothic architecture of light and bright brass/gold machinery with angels flying around (all metaphorical of course, I have no clue what it is) - its great and beautiful but it means that this experience, on earth, is what its supposed to be for good reason. That said, I think those who would need to look at it too much as identity are wittingly or unwittingly engaging in escapism - in some instances more than what's healthy and in others, if they do get really stuck on themselves, they're really to the point of living inside their own head and missing reality - likely blowing the mission unless perhaps every fiber of their being makes it inescapable.




Right, Voltaire's Bastards was all about exactly that - how cognitive, epistemic, and of course self-preservation issues made the Enlightenment more horizontal in terms of human progress than most people seem to think.

BTW, I haven't been one to see emotionality as weak (maybe in my early 20's due to what other people did to me but that was temporary). Mainly my struggle with emotions was always this - I looked different, people always had a proclivity to pound on and bully me, and my natural flow of emotions threw it right in their laps; hence I had to stop that. Because I'm me I had to handle myself in a more controlled sense if I wanted to ever be anything more than an S&M slave to the bullies around me, and as it was I hated...I mean *hated*..having my identity dominated down, being told that I was someone that I wasn't, and being at other people's mercies. Not everyone has that problem so, I look at it in a much more relative light now than what I used to.

People who lack a belief in a godthing seem to claim having special acces to powers of logic and reasons and who seem to think they are superior?

I understand it's based on your experience, however, the atheist bit does not provide any useful content to describe them beyond something which really does not matter overall. Do you have any examples?

When someone says that another's point of view is as valid as believing in a leprachaun in a sock drawer, or believing in a higher realm is akin to believing in the tooth fairy, that is where he proves that he thinks that his belief is so much above yours that it does't warrant a reply. That type of thinking seems to me, to be the type of thinking, which ascribes itself as superior as if it had special powers of logic and reasoning. I can cite numerous examples, but maybe if you read Dawkins or Hitchens, or read the cattle herd of replies from those faithful "scientific" followers here on WP, then you'll understand the sort of superiority complex which I describe as belonging to the Atheist.

How is the belief in Christianity or Islam's god any more valid than believing in a leprechaun in a sock drawer? There is as much evidence and plausibility.



I've read every book from RD except for his newest release and The Extended Phenotype. Nothing in his writings carry some air of superiority.
When The God Delusion was released there was a lot of rather curious rattling to the disrespectful or rude title. If you look up what delusion means and read the book, to not use delusion would seem rather odd or highly suggest a fear of being honest to what nearly every single believer in the Abrahamic religions are in fact proving with what is available to make their beliefs have no validity beyond "I am scared - I need absolutes no matter the cost - I can't handle reality - blah blah blah."

Now, I know you stated on WP. So, now I need to try and find some examples, since none have sounded as such.

I've read the last 4 or so books from Hitchens. If you read them, I am curious to where superiority really would fit, except that he is aggressive, disgusted with dishonesty and repulsed by defenders of immorality that if not for their beliefs (or the strange minds who feel all should be respected equally, even if they are world and life destroyers based on delusion and myth, etc) they too would see evil unmasked from which is hidden in plain sight to their warped minds.

I have read many communications on the RichardDawkins forum and none of the atheist types on there have ever showed signs of using faith towards science. Perhaps you use faith in a way that is not reflective to that of religious faith, which is potent enough to still believe even in spite of empirical/objective evidence which again would not be ignored or cast away if it was not for our self deception mechanism damaging our ability to handle contradictions to our belief system.
Just to note, I have to my dismay found quite a few times where atheists can be just as silly in other realms that show their own delusional state in some respect. This is more to their societal conditioning, propaganda and so on.

There's another example that comes to mind at first, however, look at Sam Harris and his works. I read his books and listened to his lectures/presentations, which are superior to RD/Hitchens in regard to his clarity and seeing more to the core of what is true problem.
Near the end of The End of Faith, he provides coherent and empirical use of spirituality/mysticism; in other words he took the raped and utterly defiled non metaphysical portions and displayed them in a way that SHOULD have been comprehensible for atheists (hmm more to US citizens I suppose) among others as well.

The result coming out that so many could only see this as new age or injection of Buddhism, even though everything he provided was again empirical and completely stripped of metaphysics. This had me questioning if they could even understand what was being said.

If you've never read The End of Faith: he never even needs to use atheist or has to say there is no theistic god. As I said, he hits the core of the issue and shatters the foundation which is generally more difficult for atheists (although I would have to explain the reasons, as those who came from Christianity for example would not have as much difficulty) to grasp.

There are other views he has expressed that were reflective of seeking truth and knowledge, yet again attacked by those who failed to see they did not have warrant --other than personal opinion.

P.S.
Anyone who reads The End of Faith, A Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris and FreeThinkers: A History of American Secularism by Susan Jacoby should feel embarrassed and angery for Christian's who continue their religion that is a mental disorder and world destroyer.

That last part takes boldly telling the majority that they don't exist. When the argument's frame is like that - what person in their right mind would want to talk to you about what theism means to them? The answer is already out of the gate the second they even identify themselves as theists.

psycointeregator seems pretty angry so yeah, I am very hesitant to open up at this point. But, I'll do it anyway...

If a person has a vision and this hallucination changes one for the better, how is this a bad thing? Perhaps humans have a spiritual mechanism in them for survival purposes. Why should anyone be allowed to shut that off if it can save people's lives in times of despair and offer them hope in a cruel world? Why do you, psychointeregator, find these "delusional" people so dispicable that you make fun of them for being weak? Do you think that you are better because you don't need any emotional crutches?

Do you believe that those who do need emotional crutches should be put on medication with all the possible complications that meds carry rather than be allowed the freedom to believe what they feel offers real help for themselves? Because if you are allowed to follow your logic to completion, then the outcome will be mandatory medicine for the spiritual people to make them stop believing in whatever spiritual things they believe in.

Governments have already tried every other method to abolish forms of spiritual thinking that poses a threat to them, so the way I see it, mandatory meds will be the best way to rid society from such lunatics as spiritual people. Christians and Muslims, etc will be spared meds as long as they belong to a big enough institution, keep their mouths shut, and follow the rules laid out by their religion. But it sounds like if you had it your way, all the religious people should stop worshipping because all of it is delusional.

There are a lot of delusional beliefs circulating all over the world, and the most egotistical pseudo intellectuals are less likely to think that they could be wrong about anything so they are the worst offenders.

Many people who believe in God or the possiblity of a higher realm, question their beliefs all the time. How often do you question your belief that it is impossibe for a God/Creator to exist?