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i_wanna_blue
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14 Oct 2009, 10:48 am

I'm just wondering. Creating a false impression seems to be something my family are rather good at, and I suspect many others too. I know this is a tactic my family uses because they say certain unpleasant things about someone and then, when in the company of that person, they carry on in a totally different way to which you would expect.

I'm not saying they should be absolutely rude and horrible to the person, but if you have so much against them, why behave like you actually like the person, when deep down you don't?

A fake courtesy is what I call it. I guess being two faced is one the things you need to be good at, in order to survive in the outside world. My problem is that I am no good at being fake. If I don't like someone, I won't be rude to them, but i won't act as if I'm their friend. It's just too much of an act. Despite this behaviour seemingly being an asset, I'm glad I don't use it as much, if at all as others do.

What do you guys think?



DaWalker
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14 Oct 2009, 10:51 am

No & Yes



Venger
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14 Oct 2009, 10:56 am

Being "fake" and "two-faced" are sociopathic traits.



Ruchard
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14 Oct 2009, 10:56 am

yes it is a skill to be fake



Jaydee
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14 Oct 2009, 11:03 am

Yep, being fake is among the social skills we NTs ought to master. :)



Blindspot149
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14 Oct 2009, 11:06 am

'Fake it until you can make it': Alcoholics Anonymous

A former colleague 'in recovery' once told me that; 'life is all about going through the motons, and sometimes that means dissembling'?



CerebralDreamer
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14 Oct 2009, 11:46 am

I would have to say that it is. And, I don't mean fake as in pretending to like someone when you don't, but assuming a whole variety of patterns in body language, speech, etc. Sometimes I think it's a bit like running across a bloody shapeshifter...



CanadianRose
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14 Oct 2009, 12:05 pm

There are people that I don't care for very much. I don't make a habit of talking behind their backs to the point where it is a hobby. In the privacy of my home and to my family, I might voice the odd frustration I have with a less-than-liked person, but that's about it.

As for being "fake" when I am with said person. I will always be cordial. There is no sense alienating people.

I'll give a more concrete example...

Let's say I am with a large group at church or something. I don't like "mary jane" very much, but she is a part of this social circle. I think that "mary jane" is a bit judgmental and shallow. She is sometimes catty to me or others. I may voice some frustration to my husband, in my home. However, in church, I remember that mary jane has family, friends and acquaintances in this group. I genuinely like some of the group members, but mary jane is annoying. If mary jane is at a function, I will not be rude to mary jane. I will not purposely exclude her. I will not be "catty" to her. I will be cordial (although I certainly won't share a much information about myself). I will not send her a Christmas card, but I will smile politely and say "hello" when she enters the room. The problem with being completely rude is that I will alienate other people in the group. Also, I don't like it when people are rude to me - why would I go out of my way to be rude to others.

I don't consider my attitude or behavior to be two faced - it is merely civil.



TheHaywire
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14 Oct 2009, 12:07 pm

It's a skill and a part of survival. I don't always know what being "real" or "fake" mean though. The lines blur. I don't believe in a concept of singular identity.



Willard
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14 Oct 2009, 12:14 pm

Being fake is THE social skill. A-number one, top 'o' the heap. Without that skill, everyone would be open, honest and up front. Lying and cheating would become a lost art. Society would crumble and anarchy would rule.

The world economy would come to a grinding halt. How would you ever sell anything without misrepresentation? If world leaders didn't falsify their true intentions, global war would be constant and never ending.

Most humans are dumbfounded by blunt honesty. They simply can't wrap their minds around it. In fact, repeated exposure to it generally causes them to react with hostility, probably because they're looking for a hidden agenda that isn't there, and that develops into paranoia.



anxiety25
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14 Oct 2009, 12:15 pm

I think to us it appears that it is fake, but really a lot of the things people do feel/seem very real to them, or are just automatic things they do-instinct. So I don't think they really think it through as "I don't like this person but I'm going to be nice anyway because I don't want to make an enemy"... I think that they just automatically go to comfort people or be nice to them, and later might vent about how they really didn't want to do that, or realize that they didn't like that person that much.


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DonkeyBuster
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14 Oct 2009, 1:42 pm

CanadianRose wrote:
There are people that I don't care for very much. I don't make a habit of talking behind their backs to the point where it is a hobby. In the privacy of my home and to my family, I might voice the odd frustration I have with a less-than-liked person, but that's about it.

As for being "fake" when I am with said person. I will always be cordial. There is no sense alienating people.

I'll give a more concrete example...

Let's say I am with a large group at church or something. I don't like "mary jane" very much, but she is a part of this social circle. I think that "mary jane" is a bit judgmental and shallow. She is sometimes catty to me or others. I may voice some frustration to my husband, in my home. However, in church, I remember that mary jane has family, friends and acquaintances in this group. I genuinely like some of the group members, but mary jane is annoying. If mary jane is at a function, I will not be rude to mary jane. I will not purposely exclude her. I will not be "catty" to her. I will be cordial (although I certainly won't share a much information about myself). I will not send her a Christmas card, but I will smile politely and say "hello" when she enters the room. The problem with being completely rude is that I will alienate other people in the group. Also, I don't like it when people are rude to me - why would I go out of my way to be rude to others.

I don't consider my attitude or behavior to be two faced - it is merely civil.


^^QFT^^

Going one step further...
An NT will know she's not your favorite person, but civility makes being in each others company bearable... and you never know when you might need a hand and she'll be the only one around. I live out in a rural area, where it's just plain good sense to get along with your neighbors if at all possible... they're the first ones handy to help with fires and sick livestock, and can cause you the most trouble if they don't like you.

So if the choice is between Blunt Honesty and Civil Fakery... yes, it's a necessary skill. Especially if you ever need anyone's help.



anxiety25
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14 Oct 2009, 1:50 pm

CanadianRose wrote:
I'll give a more concrete example...

Let's say I am with a large group at church or something. I don't like "mary jane" very much, but she is a part of this social circle. I think that "mary jane" is a bit judgmental and shallow. She is sometimes catty to me or others. I may voice some frustration to my husband, in my home. However, in church, I remember that mary jane has family, friends and acquaintances in this group. I genuinely like some of the group members, but mary jane is annoying. If mary jane is at a function, I will not be rude to mary jane. I will not purposely exclude her. I will not be "catty" to her. I will be cordial (although I certainly won't share a much information about myself). I will not send her a Christmas card, but I will smile politely and say "hello" when she enters the room. The problem with being completely rude is that I will alienate other people in the group. Also, I don't like it when people are rude to me - why would I go out of my way to be rude to others.

I don't consider my attitude or behavior to be two faced - it is merely civil.


Hmmm-thank you very much for that example. That put things into a better perspective for me, as I really thought it was just instinct rather than thought out and acted upon.

I'm curious as to how I come across now... I just don't say anything to that person, lol. I'm not mean or anything to them, but I don't really acknowledge them a whole lot either in most cases... unless something is needed from me or from them-as DonkeyBuster stated.

I guess I figure, even if someone doesn't like me, if they actually seek me out for something, then they really need help... and I like to help people with things as long as I know what to do. Helping people makes me really really really happy and proud of myself for doing a good thing, lol... so I guess it's a selfish reason, but it really wouldn't change how someone else would see me as long as they don't know I'm doing it fully for my own happiness.


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DonkeyBuster
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14 Oct 2009, 2:00 pm

anxiety25 wrote:
Hmmm-thank you very much for that example. That put things into a better perspective for me, as I really thought it was just instinct rather than thought out and acted upon.


I suspect it's largely instinct for NTs... thought out for us. Whatever works.

anxiety25 wrote:
I'm curious as to how I come across now... I just don't say anything to that person, lol. I'm not mean or anything to them, but I don't really acknowledge them a whole lot either in most cases... unless something is needed from me or from them-as DonkeyBuster stated.


I always say 'Hi, howya doin'?' when I see a neighbor around. That script. And that's usually as far as it goes... keeps things friendly, they don't get the feeling I've snubbed them.

anxiety25 wrote:
I guess I figure, even if someone doesn't like me, if they actually seek me out for something, then they really need help... and I like to help people with things as long as I know what to do. Helping people makes me really really really happy and proud of myself for doing a good thing, lol... so I guess it's a selfish reason, but it really wouldn't change how someone else would see me as long as they don't know I'm doing it fully for my own happiness.


I'm like that too. :) As the Dalai Lama says, "It's OK to be selfish, just be selfish wisely." Helping others for that good feeling is wise selfishness... other's will think better of you for it. :D



i_wanna_blue
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14 Oct 2009, 4:02 pm

CanadianRose wrote:

I don't consider my attitude or behavior to be two faced - it is merely civil.


I agree, your behaviour is not fake. That's the response I would hope most people would adopt. The behaviour I am speaking of, is over the top. It's almost as if the more you dislike someone, the more you try and act as a friend. Your behaviour is not motivated by doing the right thing, instead it is motivated by showing the right act. I just don't understand why people do this.



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14 Oct 2009, 4:13 pm

Willard wrote:
If world leaders didn't falsify their true intentions, global war would be constant and never ending.


Why?


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