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Are you
Poll ended at 31 Oct 2009, 7:27 am
spiritual 50%  50%  [ 5 ]
religious 10%  10%  [ 1 ]
not breathing at all 40%  40%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 10

leejosepho
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26 Oct 2009, 7:27 am

DentArthurDent wrote:
Orwell wrote:
I'm just saying, sometimes it would be nice to talk to other ASD Christians about autism and spirituality without having to contend with an argument over whether God exists at all. This sure as hell can't happen here in PPR, and I don't think there are any other autistics at my church.


Now that is a little different. I certainly do not think such an area should be set aside for christians, but maybe a 'spirituality' thread. Perhaps with a request for civility, understanding and acceptance posted at the door.


Rule #1: No mention of whether or not God exists at all.
Rule #2: No talking about each other or anyone else.

Religion requires people to have certain beliefs to fit in -- spirituality does not.
Religion is not a point of discussion here.
This discussion is about autism and spirituality, not each other and religion.

Who would like to begin?


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Vyn
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26 Oct 2009, 9:47 am

I'm actually pagan myself, but I put down spiritual as that's the only option.


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leejosepho
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26 Oct 2009, 10:47 am

Vyn wrote:
I'm actually pagan myself, but I put down spiritual as that's the only option.


I considered that kind of question when setting up the poll, and the poll will actually disappear in a few days.

I believe the question of whether or not "God" exists and the question of whether or not there is a spiritual realm or dimension are essentially the same question ... but either way, this discussion is about autism and spirituality whether or not the existence of spirituality or even the existence of autism can be proved. In other words, we need some kind of reasonable assumption as a beginning point, and for now we are simply assuming autism and spirituality are real and we are thereby intentionally setting those particular questions aside.

With that considered, the options in the poll are intended to distinguish between religion and spirituality, and on the understanding that anyone's particular "religion" is simply his or her personal manner of approaching or dealing with spirituality and/or the spiritual realm. Once again in other words, each of us might have a different lense (religion) for considering spiritual matters or questions, but we are not here to discuss the values of those lenses or "religions". Rather, we are here to discuss autism in relation to spirituality and/or spirituality in relation to autism.

Personally, I believe the two are inseparable.


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david_42
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26 Oct 2009, 10:53 am

The poll lacks meaningful options.



leejosepho
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26 Oct 2009, 11:00 am

david_42 wrote:
The poll lacks meaningful options.


The poll is specifically intended to help set the stage for what is initially quoted from Orwell and DentArthurDent. This discussion is not about identifying and debating personal religious beliefs, philosophies, positions or stands.

If spirituality exists, this discussion is about it and us and/or or about us and it, and among anyone who is still breathing and interested.


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ruveyn
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26 Oct 2009, 11:31 am

I suppose I am spiritual, because I do not live by bread alone. But I do not like the term.

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26 Oct 2009, 11:35 am

I sense there is a tenuous link between spirituality and autism. I think that people with Aspergers, particularly those with a more highly developed sense of logic and analysis than the typical NT are more likely to question the status quo. We are more likely to say "hang on a minute... Why...?".

Maybe the more analytical mind is consequently less likely to lean towards belief systems (religious, political etc).

Like you I draw a clear distinction between spirituality and religion. To me the two words mean:

Religion = believe what is thrust upon you by your peers regarding God or gods or what is written in ancient books. It tends to be a set of rules followed by particular communities - a form of social control.

Spirituality = looking for oneself into the philosophical questions of life. Not accepting what others thrust upon you as things to be believed. It is about finding answers, not just in a dry scientific way but also as a human being - a thinking feeling conscious entity.

If the distinction between religion and spirituality is not clear a trivial example would be the colour "blue". Scientists can specify the particular range of frequencies of electromagnetic radiation designated as blue and also how the eye functions physically and chemically in response to the colour. What science cannot do is show me what blue "looks like". Similarly if I bite an apple, science can list the various chemicals and their interactions with the nerves of the tongue etc but it cannot give me the "taste" of an apple. To me spirituality is asking the deep questions and how they relate to me personally rather than impersonally.


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b9
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26 Oct 2009, 11:43 am

i do not know what "spirituality" really is so i can not answer.
i can not sense concepts which have no substance and so i can not understand what a "spirit" is.
sometimes i think the world is insane when they talk about "spirits" yet they can not say what they are.
i know someone (indirectly) who says he is very "spiritual", and he struts about in togas and silken oriental gowns and other religious regalia, and he said that i am the least "spiritual" person he had ever seen.
he said he was a clairvoyant and he could also see auras and he was a .....something or other i can not remember but if i do i will edit this post.
he read tarot cards and was a complete lunatic and he did not like me.
he said my "spirit" was very feeble and my "aura" was almost non existent.
he said that i was spiritually blind and still in an embryonic stage.

well there you go huh?

i can sleep soundly and untroubled by that "revelation".
i can feel lots although i do not feel connected to consensual "spiritual" realities which i have never seen because i am blind to them.

i have always been this way and i am quite complacent and i know i see and live just as vividly as they who are "harking the herald angels".


edit: i remember now......he said he was an "empath"



Last edited by b9 on 26 Oct 2009, 11:48 am, edited 3 times in total.

leejosepho
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26 Oct 2009, 11:44 am

ruveyn wrote:
I suppose I am spiritual, because I do not live by bread alone. But I do not like the term.


Understood, and neither do I really like it ... and I now realize my error in imposing a self-label choice in the poll. But, at least we have arrived here ...

TallyMan: Were you choices of "blue" and "apple" merely coincidental?

Those are the kinds of questions I ponder.


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leejosepho
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26 Oct 2009, 11:54 am

b9 wrote:
i do not know what "spirituality" really is so i can not answer.


Personally, I do not see a need for everyone to even be interested in the first place, and neither does it matter to me as to who might happen to know more or less than anyone else. And when someone suggested you might be less spiritual than he, I would say the man had spirituality and religion confused.


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TallyMan
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26 Oct 2009, 12:02 pm

leejosepho wrote:
b9 wrote:
i do not know what "spirituality" really is so i can not answer.


Personally, I do not see a need for everyone to even be interested in the first place, and neither does it matter to me as to who might happen to know more or less than anyone else. And when someone suggested you might be less spiritual than he, I would say the man had spirituality and religion confused.


I think the words "spirit" and "spiritual" are so over-abused as to be almost meaningless. I don't consider a self proclaimed Tarot card turning, costumed clown / clairvoyant to be in the least bit spiritual - buy hey - it is sometimes how the word is used.

It is so easy to get into discussion with people about such things and be talking at completely crossed purposes. Don't even get me started on the word "God" :lol:


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leejosepho
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26 Oct 2009, 12:23 pm

Okay, I will stick my neck out a bit here ...

I see myself as being spiritually-minded, and on the assumption I am, these questions of my own emerge:

Is that because of some kind of predisposition?
To what extent might that simply be a matter of my upbringing?
How might my self-diagnosed AS or HFA be related?

My maternal grandparents were Christian missionaries, and my grandfather died from some kind of fast- and hard-hitting illness “out on the field” when my mother was twelve years old. I have pictures of him as a young man with a bible in his hand, a few years later on a motorcycle with my grandmother in a sidecar while traveling from one village to another, and of the tombstone now sitting over his body. Throughout my childhood and even into my early 20s, my grandfather and his “ministry” were to me “bigger than life” ... and I have spent my entire life to this very moment continually pondering “spiritual stuff”.

Would anything really be different for me today if my ancestry had been any different?

Note: I believe there is some Hebrew way back somewhere in my maternal grandmother’s lineage.


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TallyMan
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26 Oct 2009, 12:34 pm

leejosepho wrote:
I see myself as being spiritually-minded, and on the assumption I am, these questions of my own emerge:

Is that because of some kind of predisposition?
To what extent might that simply be a matter of my upbringing?
How might my self-diagnosed AS or HFA be related?


There is likely no single cause, but several in combination.

It sounds from your personal history that you were exposed to concepts of spirituality and religion from an early age. You may also be predisposed biologically / neurally to ask such questions.

One way to look at it is this: Typical NT's fit into society more or less seamlessly (with obvious ups and downs) but those of us with neural differences do not fit in so well and are more disposed to feel like outsiders and to ask questions. Maybe some just grab religious beliefs because it gives them a sense of belonging; whereas other Aspies are more independently minded and spend their lives asking deep unsettling questions. I know I have. My earliest childhood memories are a sense of wonderment and intrigue into life / nature / the universe / and something called "God" that some people talked about.

My parents were ordinary hard working people with no time for religion or spirituality in their lives. They could not understand my juvenile questions along the lines "But surely it is important to know WHY we are alive before knowing what to do with one's life or how to live it?".


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26 Oct 2009, 1:14 pm

Because the word 'spiritual' is beyond the term 'abused' these days I cannot use it. It just brings up images of liberal Christians who ignore large tracts of filth in the bible. Knowing that essentially all matter in the present is from the destruction of stars over billions of years and that I will eventually become one with the earth after my death is about as 'spiritual' as I get.



leejosepho
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26 Oct 2009, 1:25 pm

MussoliniBismarck wrote:
Because the word 'spiritual' is beyond the term 'abused' these days I cannot use it. It just brings up images of ...


Understood.

MussoliniBismarck wrote:
Knowing that essentially all matter in the present is from the destruction of stars over billions of years and that I will eventually become one with the earth after my death is about as 'spiritual' as I get.


That would be what I call the "temporal", and I suspect many of us would agree there ... and as viewable in part of what TallyMan has mentioned:

TallyMan wrote:
My parents were ordinary hard working people with no time for religion or spirituality in their lives ...


But then there is still this:

TallyMan wrote:
They could not understand my juvenile questions along the lines "But surely it is important to know WHY we are alive ...?".


From where does that kind of question come?

Surely not from mere rocks.


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