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i_wanna_blue
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28 Oct 2009, 6:51 am

I've been told that "people around me put up with my faults". So I asked: "what fault is that?" Answer: My inability to be a normal person who socialises and isn't afraid to do everyday things. I have always been this way, and don't know any other way of incorporating into society. So it's a transgression, a shortcoming to be socially inept? I know I avoid a lot of circumstances due to the above and other people do take on the responsibility which I usually avoid because of my fear, inabilities. But is it that bad that I am labeled pretty much on par as a sinner?

I don't really know how others view your lack of social abilities. But in my world, most people (and I emphasize most, not all) see me as being 'bad'. I never really cause any harm to anyone, but usually after seeing my ineptness, they regard me as someone who doesn't deserve their respect. I struggled everyday of my life in trying to be sociable. Now I am an adult, and I haven't changed much people usually think that I am using this as an excuse, almost as if they think I want to be this way. It's regarded as unacceptable for an adult like me to still be battling with confidence issues and phobias.

I have relatives who basically despise me. And for what? Considering that I have not harmed them in any way, what possible reason should they feel this way about me? I'm pretty sure it's the fact that I am still quiet and socially challenged.



Aimless
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28 Oct 2009, 7:00 am

i_wanna_blue wrote:
I've been told that "people around me put up with my faults". So I asked: "what fault is that?" Answer: My inability to be a normal person who socialises and isn't afraid to do everyday things. I have always been this way, and don't know any other way of incorporating into society. So it's a transgression, a shortcoming to be socially inept? I know I avoid a lot of circumstances due to the above and other people do take on the responsibility which I usually avoid because of my fear, inabilities. But is it that bad that I am labeled pretty much on par as a sinner?

I don't really know how others view your lack of social abilities. But in my world, most people (and I emphasize most, not all) see me as being 'bad'. I never really cause any harm to anyone, but usually after seeing my ineptness, they regard me as someone who doesn't deserve their respect. I struggled everyday of my life in trying to be sociable. Now I am an adult, and I haven't changed much people usually think that I am using this as an excuse, almost as if they think I want to be this way. It's regarded as unacceptable for an adult like me to still be battling with confidence issues and phobias.

I have relatives who basically despise me. And for what? Considering that I have not harmed them in any way, what possible reason should they feel this way about me? I'm pretty sure it's the fact that I am still quiet and socially challenged.


I'm sorry you have to put up with such ignorance. Ask them to imagine a world where everybody was competing with everyone else for social recognition.


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28 Oct 2009, 8:57 am

i_wanna_blue wrote:
I've been told that "people around me put up with my faults". So I asked: "what fault is that?" Answer: My inability to be a normal person who socialises and isn't afraid to do everyday things. I have always been this way, and don't know any other way of incorporating into society. So it's a transgression, a shortcoming to be socially inept? I know I avoid a lot of circumstances due to the above and other people do take on the responsibility which I usually avoid because of my fear, inabilities. But is it that bad that I am labeled pretty much on par as a sinner?

I don't really know how others view your lack of social abilities. But in my world, most people (and I emphasize most, not all) see me as being 'bad'. I never really cause any harm to anyone, but usually after seeing my ineptness, they regard me as someone who doesn't deserve their respect. I struggled everyday of my life in trying to be sociable. Now I am an adult, and I haven't changed much people usually think that I am using this as an excuse, almost as if they think I want to be this way. It's regarded as unacceptable for an adult like me to still be battling with confidence issues and phobias.

I have relatives who basically despise me. And for what? Considering that I have not harmed them in any way, what possible reason should they feel this way about me? I'm pretty sure it's the fact that I am still quiet and socially challenged.



The person who made that comment didn't call you a sinner. All they were saying was that people put up with your idiosyncracies. Big deal. Everyone puts up with everyone elses' faults. I bet you whoever made that comment has several irritating things about them too (including making rude comments). The people around you put up with your faults (as opposed to actively avoiding you) because you have enough good points going for you for them to still enjoy your company, even if you are a little more hard work than normal.

I'll be honest with you, if other people are shouldering your responsibilities, then regardless of your excuse, they may come to resent you for it. Especially if after years, you do not appear to be making progress with your issues (they can't see your internal struggle).

Loads of people have relatives they hate and vice versa. The reasons behind the fallouts are often trivial in extreme, so don't take it overly personal.



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28 Oct 2009, 9:42 am

I've known an elementary school teacher who never never NEVER :) used the word "fault" in class.
Always: "mistakes".

He knew where his pupils were coming from (a hard part of the city) and he knew the load implied by that word: "fault".
Especially when it's repeated at the infinite (those pupils were not, for a lot of them, what we could call "good pupils").

He thought they were having enough rough time at home and in the streets and everywhere to not put anymore on their shoulders - or in their heads when they were in class.

Since he explained us that and a few other things, I do the same: "fault" has become rather rare in my vocabulary.

Mistake is usually quite enough.


And for the inner struggle against fears and anxiety, I see it as a part of the invisible (yes, I can see the invisible!) thing that prevents someone to "function" well in society: when all or most of all your energy is taken away by that struggle, what's left to live and do... whatever you like or would like or even what someone else would like you to do?



Last edited by zena4 on 28 Oct 2009, 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

dossa
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28 Oct 2009, 9:48 am

People put up with me as well. I do not think they see me as bad... more likely broken. I know I piss them off, confuse, frustrate, worry, annoy... them. Sometimes they try to tell me things to do to fix myself. Sometime they tell me all about all that I am not and all that they wish I would be. Heaven help me though if I try to tell them what I would like them to be or how they could do things to help me in situations. They might as well sew their eye lids shut and fold their ears if I start to say something like that. People confuse me. I confuse people. It's a lovely cycle :roll: Luckily, this is only a small part of my family and it is not a daily occurrence. The biggest offender is my mother and I only have to see her once a year or so. And the thing is, I really think she means well, she is just ignorant and selfish. My husband is pretty good about being patient with me, but sometimes he gets fed up and tired and blows up at me. I try to not take it personally. I know I can be a pain, I know it wears on him sometimes. No one is perfect. I piss him off, he pisses me off... but hey, we both value the other enough to not get hung up on our imperfections. It is easy for me to say that now as currently neither he or I are mad at the other. Ask me about this statement when he and I are fighting. I bet you ten dollars I will be singing a different tune... and it will likely be a song that involves hitting people in the feet with hammers or running them down with a car. Heh.

I am sorry that your family is not being understanding and supportive. I think some people neglect to understand how important a what... comfortable/encouraging/understanding environment is. I know when my household is tense, I can barely maintain. It adds so much stress and frustration to an already difficult situation... How is one supposed to maintain in that environment when maintaining on its own is a challenge? I am sorry that they are behaving the way that they are. That goes beyond counterproductive into the realm of destructive, me thinks. Family is supposed to support you. Yeah, we will all have our moments where we do things that are less than supportive, but to be regarded as unacceptable is unacceptable.


Can you distance yourself from them? If I am recalling correctly, and I know I am, your father is like my mother. The only thing that keeps me sane in dealing with her is knowing that it is only so often she and I need to put up with each other. Distance gave her and I a relationship...kind of... even if it is only seeing each other once a year... at least now there is not constant tension and misunderstanding and resentment from all sides on a regular basis. It is generally easier to distance yourself from non parent relatives... just stop talking to them. I know it sounds awful, but people weigh you down and sometimes they gotta go. If they are not willing to accept you as a whole... the great to good to not so good to awful, then to hell with them. If you feel obligated to be a decent relative, make your obligatory Christmas card send out or send a monthly email or do an annual visit or whatnot. If you are dealing with phobias and self confidence issues the last thing you need is your family making you feel bad. There is nothing wrong with not dealing with your family. Sometimes it is the best thing to do.


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SINsister
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28 Oct 2009, 9:54 am

i_wanna_blue wrote:
I've been told that "people around me put up with my faults". So I asked: "what fault is that?" Answer: My inability to be a normal person who socialises and isn't afraid to do everyday things. I have always been this way, and don't know any other way of incorporating into society. So it's a transgression, a shortcoming to be socially inept? I know I avoid a lot of circumstances due to the above and other people do take on the responsibility which I usually avoid because of my fear, inabilities. But is it that bad that I am labeled pretty much on par as a sinner?

I don't really know how others view your lack of social abilities. But in my world, most people (and I emphasize most, not all) see me as being 'bad'. I never really cause any harm to anyone, but usually after seeing my ineptness, they regard me as someone who doesn't deserve their respect. I struggled everyday of my life in trying to be sociable. Now I am an adult, and I haven't changed much people usually think that I am using this as an excuse, almost as if they think I want to be this way. It's regarded as unacceptable for an adult like me to still be battling with confidence issues and phobias.

I have relatives who basically despise me. And for what? Considering that I have not harmed them in any way, what possible reason should they feel this way about me? I'm pretty sure it's the fact that I am still quiet and socially challenged.


Project your current hell into the future, and you'll be where I am. At 41, I'm still disabled by phobias and social deficits. Ignoranuses (yes, I did that on purpose ;)) can't fathom an invisible disability; at work, I get, "What do you MEAN, you hate talking on the phone?!" "What do you MEAN, you hate driving?!" Etc. My dad despises me for these difficulties, and always has. Decades ago, during my numerous (phobia-triggered) meltdowns, he suggested that I be institutionalized, so he wouldn't have to deal with having a "mental, lazy, useless piece of snot" for a daughter. I know where you're coming from, man. The folks you're dealing with are incapable (through ignorance or stupidity) of comprehending your needs or your anguish. It's not your fault.


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28 Oct 2009, 10:20 am

Even though I am inclined to be critical of myself and to sometimes even ask the "sin" question all on my own, I have your same kind of dilemma. Individually or together, I have family members who seem to think I am doing something wrong or even "sinful" when I do not join in with them and do the things they do in the ways they do them. For example, and right in my own home: I do not get up and give a hug and say "Hi!" or "Bye!" every time somebody who lives in the same home (there are seven of us) passes through the front door. And of course, I could give many more examples.

I do not know the ultimate solution or resolution here, but I do know it is not automatically my "fault" or even the result of some "mistake" or "sin" on my part if somebody else is upset or troubled by something I either do or do not say or do. And, I have let everyone around me know I will no longer tolerate being automatically blamed for their discomfort. That does not mean I do not care about them or how they feel and so on, but it does mean they are going to have to come to terms with their own expectations of me just like I must do with mine and them. They know they do not have to treat me with kid gloves, and they know they can approach me and discuss things quietly if/when they truly believe I have committed an actual offense of some kind.

I can sleep at night not because I am sure everybody else likes me, but because I know I have done my very best to at least be somewhat likeable!


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i_wanna_blue
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28 Oct 2009, 10:53 am

Quote:
The person who made that comment didn't call you a sinner.


No he didn't, but I'm detecting a change in attitude towards me especially from those who as you say are putting up with my idiosyncrasies. Still there are those who see it more as a serious character flaw, one which breeds a lot of animosity in them. I have experienced this first hand, and I'm pretty sure I'm not overreacting. Maybe it shouldn't be a big deal for me, but it is. The relatives I mentioned don't have to put up with these idiosyncrasies. I'm not perfect or faultless, (of course no one is), but in the game of family politics and discontent my social abilities seems to be the reason for my dislike.

I mean if was some backstabbing, rumour emitting jerk, then fine. Dislike me all you want. But I'm not. I guess you're right. They can't see the internal struggle. Maybe I shouldn't take it too personally.

Quote:
And for the inner struggle against fears and anxiety, I see it as a part of the invisible (yes, I can see the invisible!)


Yes, zena it is invisible. I guess people can't see it, so they think there's nothing there and that you want to be the way you are.

Anyway thanks for the input everyone.



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28 Oct 2009, 11:25 am

SinSister wrote:
Project your current hell into the future, and you'll be where I am.


Amen, Sin! (You better get used to it. This is no social crisis, just another tricky day for you)


I_wanna_blue wrote:
can't see it, so they think there's nothing there and that you want to be the way you are.


And there, the crux of the biscuit. Invisibility. AS is the invisible handicap. Even the people who were with you on the day you were diagnosed will forever treat you as though you're doing it on purpose. If your legs ain't broke, you don't have a problem. No pastor, no nurse, no politician, no employer nor teacher nor even your own parents will ever protect you, defend you or make any serious effort to understand you. You are an alien in their world. That's why we gather here.



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28 Oct 2009, 11:51 am

People who go about their daily lives deliberatly unable to accept a person for existing are the ones who are sinning, because they judge others and expect them to be what they want them to be as if they were in charge themselves. The majority of human kinds does that, in my oppinion. Not a good natural trait, I admit.



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28 Oct 2009, 11:58 am

LiendaBalla wrote:
People who go about their daily lives deliberately unable [or unwilling] to accept a person for existing are the ones who are sinning, because they judge others and expect them to be what they want them to be as if they were in charge themselves.


Well said, and may we not do likewise!


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28 Oct 2009, 12:01 pm

Willard wrote:
SinSister wrote:
Project your current hell into the future, and you'll be where I am.


Amen, Sin! (You better get used to it. This is no social crisis, just another tricky day for you)


You can't always get it when you really want it...you can't always get it at all.


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Willard
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28 Oct 2009, 12:29 pm

SINsister wrote:
Willard wrote:
SinSister wrote:
Project your current hell into the future, and you'll be where I am.


Amen, Sin! (You better get used to it. This is no social crisis, just another tricky day for you)


You can't always get it when you really want it...you can't always get it at all.



True dat. You can't always get what you want. But - if you try sometimes, you just might find - you get what you need.

Small consolation. A well-balanced diet is no substitute for a Ferrari. :wink:








(pardon my switching bands, but I didn't want anyone to think this was a Jerry Bruckheimer joint)



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28 Oct 2009, 12:38 pm

Willard wrote:
You can't always get what you want. But - if you try sometimes, you just might find - you get what you need.


...or not, as the case may be. :(

Willard wrote:
Small consolation. A well-balanced diet is no substitute for a Ferrari. :wink:


Agreed. But one might be able to *borrow* a Ferrari, or at least snag a ride in one at some point, if one's lucky, knows the "right" people, etc...


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28 Oct 2009, 12:40 pm

Willard wrote:
(pardon my switching bands, but I didn't want anyone to think this was a Jerry Bruckheimer joint)


Hmmm. I'm willing to bet that very few folks knew what you were on about, anyway. I don't get the Bruckheimer reference, though..?


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28 Oct 2009, 3:05 pm

I think you need to boost your self confidence and get rid of this self-debasement that you seem to have. I know it is easier said than done. However your attitude towards yourself can become "self fulfilling". The more you put yourself down the more you feel like that is where you belong. The more you do things to boost your confidence the more confident, successful and happier you become.

You can start in little ways like not having a custom rank of "Naturally Inferior". If you feel something more positive would be trying to con yourself then at least go for something more neutral.

I still have problems with social phobia aged 49! However I don't let people put me down verbally any more. Some people think I'm idle (maybe I am to a certain extent) but they simply don't understand that motivation can be difficult for Aspies (unless it is in relation to a special interest); dislike of working and socialising with others doesn't help either. I've made my own life, my own way. Bugger what anyone else thinks.

Above all I'm self confident now. I'm intelligent and insightful.

What are you good at? What are your strong points? Focus on them, not what other people try to pull you down with.


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