I'm an idiot...

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I now know what I did that really jeopardized my relationship (in fact, in retrospect it's a wonder the relationship is still standing at this point), and why she was worried so much about me pressuring her even though I was trying my hardest not to.

Before I get into that, I need to provide the proper context. See, I'm a very emotional person... emotion is a powerful driving force for me (even if I don't necessarily show it all the time). This holds especially in relationships, where I need to feel the emotion there before I can even think about going through any of the actions involved. Even then, I wasn't planning on even getting anywhere near first base for a good 9-12 months if the relationship even lasted that long, and then only if she was completely comfortable with it (the 9-12 months being how long I would need to feel comfortable enough), and the other bases would take even longer.

So I was talking to a friend of mine about the relationship, and to my pretty much complete shock, I find out that, normally, telling someone you love them is supposed to come somewhere between 2nd and 3rd bases... To me, that sounds backwards: I wouldn't even get into a relationship with someone that I don't love, much less get past two bases. But, apparently, I'm the one who's backwards...

I feel like the world's biggest idiot now... I've just learned that I committed the greatest faux pas ever known to humanity... At least now I can legitimately say that this has been a learning experience... I just wish I had learned this beforehand...

Wait, did you actually say "I love you" to her? I'm unclear on that point. If you did, then I would say yes, your friend is basically right. Although I don't think it has to be in specific ordering with the "bases", saying "I love you" is best kept until some point later in the relationship. I am guessing that you are not one who gets into relationships lightly, and you probably have already decided you love someone at least somewhat before you start up with them (and imo this is something a lot of aspies do). Most people, however, aren't this way. They start relationships to test people out as partners, and only after time do they decide whether or not they actually love the person. This is true even if you already know each other, and particularly true when you are young and most likely have never said it to anyone before (as I'm assuming she hasn't either).

Also, I think it's important to remember how much your emotions probably show without any intent on your part. I am sure you haven't said anything (other than possibly "I love you") that would make her feel you want to push things or make her move faster than her own pace, but if you are this emotionally invested already I have no doubt that she sees it and feels pressured despite your best efforts. It's not something you can control. The only way to reduce it is to actually work on toning down your intense feelings and recognizing that that kind of emotional need from a partner is a very heavy burden to carry for anyone, let alone a very young woman with whom you've been in a relationship for only a short while. And I say this out of experience, as I know I've driven people away by needing them too much too quickly.

I don't get your analogies (could you possibly translate that to some sport that Europeans know? rugby? football? kick boxing? table tennis?) but I don't believe there is an "order". although it might sound a bit weird to say "I love you" to someone in the very beginning of a relationship (I find it hard to imagine that someone might not be freaked out by that) there is no rule when exactly is the time to say it. so don't be beating yourself up.

Pasted from the other thread:

He's talking about juvenile demarcations of sexual activity.

You're not an idiot you are just learning. Don't count this experience as a negative but rather positive in the aspect that you learned something. What makes you less of an idiot is that instead of ranting and blaming her for it, you expressed some dissappointment yet were willing to take into some replies without insult. In other words, you were willing to actually listen and understand it from outside perspective....(at least that's what I saw). In fact, you sound much different from the old Toad in that you were willing to take in some of the suggestions and reitorate the circumstances surrounding your situation....

Try not to think so much in terms of bases but rather timing and the feelings involved. I know that for some of us it's hard because we're a bit blinded by those subtle yet subliminal cues and rules in some of those social games. Yes it isn't such a great idea to tell someone you love them when you're dating. It is like proposing to a stranger that you want to marry them. Dating is not so much love in a sense of experiencing the relationship for what it is but rather what it will be. Although it can depend on the person and like you I've often put too many feelings beforehand. I think much of this has to do with all those intense feelings we lock up when we lack the experience and self esteem to pursue and persist in the dating world. We attach stongly to those who will accept us for our quirky selves and think they are the ones!! ! In reality there are many people out there willing to accept us for who we are but we need to be willing to take that chance and act rather than project and deeply analyze from a distance.

In short, just enjoy the experience and if it doesn't last, take it slowly and one step at a time. Try not to think too much about how that said someone will reject you. I think we're our own worse enemies when it comes to this and it's in our nature to either internalize or externalize our frustrations by blaming the other person or ourselves.

Well said, MissConstrue

I don't want to speak for MissConstrue (hehe), but...

Why in the world would I blame her for a faux pas that I committed? That makes next to no sense at all...

I think your friend was making generalizations about relationships that don't necessarily apply to your specific situation. In your situation, you've known this girl for several years, and clearly have considered her potential gf material for a while. In a situation where people who have been long-time friends begin to date, I don't think it would be unusual for a person to have strong feelings at the very beginning of the romantic relationship.

I think what you probably do understand (at this point), is that because you've developed those strong feelings doesn't mean that the young lady has. She may think you're a great guy, but perhaps she's only beginning to evaluate you as a romantic partner - and that will take as long as it takes. Be patient with her, and remind yourself that her process of transitioning from friend to romance isn't the same as your process. You made the transition before you started dating - she's making it as you date. There's nothing wrong with either approach - they're just different.

I think it's important to realize, however, that when people date, a physical relationship very often precedes any real emotional connection. I'm not endorsing that, I'm just saying it's typically what happens. Most people in relationships kiss before they've fallen in love. It's rather unfortunate, but lots of people are willing to engage in all kinds of sexual activity without being in love or committed to their partner. I think it's actually kind of great that you want to be emotionally committed before you get involved physically...just be aware that because someone is willing to do something sexual with you doesn't translate into feeling love for you. Sad, but true.

^Well now I'm finding all that out... it's just that before yesterday the possibility of being in a relationship with someone you didn't even love didn't even cross my mind, and to be honest the concept still sounds alien to me...

I'm willing to wait as long as it takes... and no, I'm not saying that to be desperate, I'm saying that because, honestly, she's worth waiting a long time for... And seeing as how the relationship is somehow still (miraculously) standing, that possibility still exists...

Well I've talked to her about this, and she forgave me for it... in addition, while she said she was shocked when i first said it, she also mentioned that I hadn't made her feel uncomfortable or pressured at all.

Nevertheless, she said that while she wanted to feel as though she loved me back, she never actually felt that way. Which to me sends up a lot of red flags. I'm still willing to wait this out and see if maybe there's room for such feelings to develop, but the prospect of that happening gets less and less likely each day...

However, on a better note, she is still eager to go out on a date we had arranged before the relationship had started going to s**t, so maybe there is a small hope after all...