Page 1 of 2 [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

jimmister
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 4 Oct 2008
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 104

11 Nov 2009, 9:10 pm

Okay, I am talking about the Christian God here.

Sometimes I don't think God is very tolerant of those who wish to socialize and be normal (aspies). I am even convinced he is kind of full of bigotry and hates all ASD people because of the people he placed around us, our traits, how we can't fit in to mainstream society, etc. There are more issues, which don't have anything at all to do with ASDs.

I think I should become an atheist. I am tired of it. Why should I believe in God if he won't let me drive, make it hard for me to get married, etc.? Remind me again why I should keep faith in God and the bible. I am now to convinced the the some stuff in the bible is full of BS. All I want is help coming in terms with my Catholic faith.



DW_a_mom
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,687
Location: Northern California

12 Nov 2009, 12:10 am

Perhaps God has a role for you that you haven't seen yet. Yes, he's made certain things more difficult, but he's also given you gifts. And I think the world NEEDS people who are different, in part to challenge people to reconsider their assumptions and priorities. Jesus didn't have it that easy himself, did he? And, yet, His life was crucial.

I once read an article that speculated AS used to fill religious orders creating things books and printing presses. A quiet life of routine and invention. Appealing, isn't it? Times have changed, and the road may be less clear, but it must still be there.


_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).


DentArthurDent
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,884
Location: Victoria, Australia

12 Nov 2009, 3:12 am

I think you need to break this down in order to get a handle on it

Firstly you need to ask yourself if you belief in a god/creator independent of religious dogma or the psychological profile of said god.

If you no longer have this belief then by definition you are an atheist, if on the other hand you do believe in a god, gods or creator then you need to look at the type psychological profile you believe this entity to have.

From what I know of the various religions they all seem to have an explanation for gods seemingly uncaring nature, either as Dawkins says "The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully." (this would fully explain your confusion regarding god and your ASD)

If you believe this to be a good representation of the god you believe in then you need to look at the more fundemental extremist cadres within religions, you mentioned The RCC well they have Opus Dei which tends to focus on the need to punish oneself to please god.

Or as DW has said you need to look at why a benevolent god would seemingly cause or ignore suffering

I think it is important for you to realise that religious dogma is nothing but philosophy, my views aside faith is something that a person has regardless of any writings.

Good luck, enjoy the exploration


_________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance anyday"
Douglas Adams

"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx


Eggman
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,676

12 Nov 2009, 3:26 am

jimmister wrote:
Okay, I am talking about the Christian God here.

Sometimes I don't think God is very tolerant of those who wish to socialize and be normal (aspies). I am even convinced he is kind of full of bigotry and hates all ASD people because of the people he placed around us, our traits, how we can't fit in to mainstream society, etc. There are more issues, which don't have anything at all to do with ASDs.

I think I should become an atheist. I am tired of it. Why should I believe in God if he won't let me drive, make it hard for me to get married, etc.? Remind me again why I should keep faith in God and the bible. I am now to convinced the the some stuff in the bible is full of BS. All I want is help coming in terms with my Catholic faith.

Wasn't Jesus about accepting those that others didn't?


_________________
Pwning the threads with my mad 1337 skillz.


TheOddGoat
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 516

12 Nov 2009, 6:44 am

Eggman wrote:
jimmister wrote:
Okay, I am talking about the Christian God here.

Sometimes I don't think God is very tolerant of those who wish to socialize and be normal (aspies). I am even convinced he is kind of full of bigotry and hates all ASD people because of the people he placed around us, our traits, how we can't fit in to mainstream society, etc. There are more issues, which don't have anything at all to do with ASDs.

I think I should become an atheist. I am tired of it. Why should I believe in God if he won't let me drive, make it hard for me to get married, etc.? Remind me again why I should keep faith in God and the bible. I am now to convinced the the some stuff in the bible is full of BS. All I want is help coming in terms with my Catholic faith.

Wasn't Jesus about accepting those that others didn't?


god isn't about accepting those that others don't. jesus is god made finite, therefore jesus' points on this were an accident in terms of christianity because he is god made human and therefore could make mistakes in what he means unlike his infinite form as god.



Oregon
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 361
Location: Salem, OR

12 Nov 2009, 9:11 am

I agree with DentArthurDent, you need to examine your core beliefs.

Is life and the universe caused by random mutations or is there an order to it? Are there natural laws that even science must follow? All that we know has structure, it is not random chaos.. you need to ask yourself "why?"

As for what religious belief to follow, examine your core values and principles. Try to find a group of people that share those ideals. I no longer follow the teachings Judo/Christian books because they go against some of my core beliefs.

No mater what, keep your own personal responsibility. Do not blame some supernatural being for how you react to life.. Most religions teach that you have a free will and God helps those who help themselves.


_________________
The bigotry of the nonbeliever is for me nearly as funny as the bigotry of the believer.
~Albert Einstein


zer0netgain
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Mar 2009
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,613

12 Nov 2009, 12:01 pm

Rejoyce in that you are much like 99% of NT people. 8)

So many have no clue about how and why God "allows" the things He does. They want to blame God for things He either didn't do or for the fact that He does not miraculously intervene in daily life.

To keep it simple, I'll stick to the high points....

1. God gives man "free will" (or at least the appearance of it). For this to work, God must "respect" the choices men make, even if they are poorly made, evil, etc. God CAN intervene, but He either only goes where He is invited and/or operates in ways that do not prove his existence (see point below.)

2. God wants man to fellowship with him as a choice of his own "free will" (see point above). For this to be possible, men must exercise "faith" to believe in something they can not conclusively prove exists. Hence, God must not act in ways that would clearly proves He exists lest it deprive men of their "free will."

3. God created mankind to be perfect. Not like God, but free of defect or abnormality. So long as man fellowshiped with God, this status was preserved. Adam and Eve sinned, and death, disease and disorder enters the picture. Your having AS, someone having a bad leg, someone else being blind, etc. is not the product of God hating you, but the happenstance of sin in our world.

4. God is able to take broken situations (and people) and make something positive come out of it if the parties involved are willing. When Jesus healed a cripple, He asked if the man had sinned or if his parents had sinned, but then revealed that the cripple was the way he was so that God could be glorified through him...then the cripple was healed. In that time, people were inclined to blame someone for the bad things that happen rather than see those situations as opportunities for God to do incredible things with humanity.

5. Why are some people so hindered in life that they are dependent on others? Why doesn't God fix them even if they profess to be His followers? I wish I knew the answer to that one. I've seen such people, and they are the model of Christan love and God's Grace at work IN SPITE OF their disabilities. Other Christians struggle to not be angry and bitter about how God has "let them down." I don't know why things happen one way for one and another way for another.

6. In spite of all that, I don't allow what I feel God has not done for my life to justify my walking away from God.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 87
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

12 Nov 2009, 12:45 pm

To Original Poster:

Why do you need any human's help? You have your God, right?

ruveyn



DentArthurDent
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,884
Location: Victoria, Australia

12 Nov 2009, 2:52 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
Rejoyce in that you are much like 99% of NT people. 8)

So many have no clue about how and why God "allows" the things He does. They want to blame God for things He either didn't do or for the fact that He does not miraculously intervene in daily life.



Really ?????? I did not realise that 99% of 'NT' people were religious. WTF do you bring such a stupid and banal generalisation into this topic. Your characterisation of those who present as neurotypical really pisses me off, why? because it is as dumb and ridiculous as saying 'all muslims are terrorists' or 'all blacks are pimps'


_________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance anyday"
Douglas Adams

"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx


zer0netgain
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Mar 2009
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,613

12 Nov 2009, 3:02 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
Rejoyce in that you are much like 99% of NT people. 8)

So many have no clue about how and why God "allows" the things He does. They want to blame God for things He either didn't do or for the fact that He does not miraculously intervene in daily life.



Really ?????? I did not realise that 99% of 'NT' people were religious. WTF do you bring such a stupid and banal generalisation into this topic. Your characterisation of those who present as neurotypical really pisses me off, why? because it is as dumb and ridiculous as saying 'all muslims are terrorists' or 'all blacks are pimps'


It isn't generalization. I hear the same line of reasoning from NTs who want to be angry at God over perceived failures when the truth is they are arguing from a lack on knowledge about what God reveals about His nature.

My comment was not about NTs being religious, but how NORMAL the OP's line of reasoning in this matter was.



DentArthurDent
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,884
Location: Victoria, Australia

12 Nov 2009, 3:09 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
DentArthurDent wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
Rejoyce in that you are much like 99% of NT people. 8)

So many have no clue about how and why God "allows" the things He does. They want to blame God for things He either didn't do or for the fact that He does not miraculously intervene in daily life.



Really ?????? I did not realise that 99% of 'NT' people were religious. WTF do you bring such a stupid and banal generalisation into this topic. Your characterisation of those who present as neurotypical really pisses me off, why? because it is as dumb and ridiculous as saying 'all muslims are terrorists' or 'all blacks are pimps'


It isn't generalization. I hear the same line of reasoning from NTs who want to be angry at God over perceived failures when the truth is they are arguing from a lack on knowledge about what God reveals about His nature.

My comment was not about NTs being religious, but how NORMAL the OP's line of reasoning in this matter was.


All this talk of 'nt this' and 'nt that' is a gross generalisation. Neurotypical is just that, have a typical neurology does not mean that everyone presenting as such thinks the same, acts the same etc if you really think that you can define someone based upon their neurology then you are a complete and utter fool


_________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance anyday"
Douglas Adams

"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx


John_Browning
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,456
Location: The shooting range

12 Nov 2009, 6:47 pm

Jimmister,
It seems that this is a matter for a pastor/priest and a therapist. First the therapist to talk about your feelings about people around you to check for any distorted views about them and how to deal with them better, and then a pastor/priest to discuss your faith as it relates to dealing with people.


_________________
"Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."
- Unknown

"A fear of weapons is a sign of ret*d sexual and emotional maturity."
-Sigmund Freud


TheOddGoat
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 516

12 Nov 2009, 6:53 pm

Quote:
if you really think that you can define someone based upon their neurology then you are a complete and utter fool


So -all- people who think that they can define someone based upon their neurology are fools?

What about people who...

Nevermind, I can't do it.

Its too droll.



techstepgenr8tion
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,195
Location: 28th Path of Tzaddi

12 Nov 2009, 8:40 pm

There are a lot of other people he hates as well who well outnumber us:

- the dull witted
- pedants
- schizophrenics
- people with bipolar
- people with MPD
- dyslexics
- epileptics
- para/quadriplegics
- diabetics
- people with severe peanut allergies
- people with Chrone's disease
- anyone who lives under a tyrant
- people starting in tribal shell states
- anyone raised by abusive parents
- anyone who ended up in and out of the system
- anyone who ended up pregnant at 16 or 17 with no place to go

I guess what I'm getting at here - its not likely that this life is going to be all that great for most people, we having AS/autism have our own esoteric sets of problems and its easy to then separate 'us' in one stack and 'the rest of the universe' in another stack - but its just not like that and there are myriad ways, likely many more that I couldn't think of above, where life could be as bad if not worse than having AS.

That said, I don't think he has it in for us.



DentArthurDent
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,884
Location: Victoria, Australia

13 Nov 2009, 12:19 am

TheOddGoat wrote:
Quote:
if you really think that you can define someone based upon their neurology then you are a complete and utter fool


So -all- people who think that they can define someone based upon their neurology are fools?

What about people who...

Nevermind, I can't do it.

Its too droll.


I should have worded that better, naturally a persons unique neurology does to a great extent define who they are, what I am getting at are general neurological groupings


_________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance anyday"
Douglas Adams

"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx


DentArthurDent
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,884
Location: Victoria, Australia

13 Nov 2009, 12:28 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
There are a lot of other people he hates as well who well outnumber us:



See I think this goes right to the heart of the problem, the fire and brimstone conception of god has been replaced by many faiths with a compassionate and kind god. This newer concept is riddled with contradictory evidence.


_________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance anyday"
Douglas Adams

"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx