What I hope comes out of the Copenhagen climate meeting

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ruennsheng
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13 Dec 2009, 8:44 am

Should we move to another planet just to make ourselves blind from seeing the detrimental effects of carbon? If we can't, ACT now! We should support governmental solutions to the problems and pressure them to provide less talk and more solution for us - the people!


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Cactus_Man
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16 Dec 2009, 2:54 am

Eh... you didn't directly address much.

First off, how do "regulations penalize everyone?" For one thing, we need to be clear on what is meant by "regulations," since I'm getting the feeling that we're talking about two different things. As I said, I'm in favor of regulation within reason- meaning, you know, common sense things, like "it's illegal to hire convicted child molesters if you're running a preschool." (Fun fact: in certain states, you can LEGALLY hire convicted child molesters to work in youth care facilities.) If you're referring to things like affirmative action, then no, I don't think that's very "common sense." (If somebody is a dick and doesn't want to hire you because of your race/gender/orientation, then do you really want to work for this guy anyway?)

Secondly, when did I imply that I have anything against the rich? On the contrary, I think that the income tax rate should be flat across the board. (Now, having said that, I also think it's time to force the CEO's to pay their fair share of taxes in the first place... I'm talking to you, Jobs!) Barring some unforeseen incident, I'll probably end up at least somewhat wealthy myself, so I certainly don't want them to be punished in any way.

All I'm saying is that everybody should have the opportunity to be successful if they're willing to work for it, but the reality is that there are many people who have the potential to be big but can't get out of their rut. If you're an idiot, but your parents are rich, guess what? Your mommy and daddy are going to slip USC (or almost any other private university) some extra tuition money, and you'll get in despite your B average. From there, you'll get the nice job that your dad hooks you up with, and you'll barely hold onto it until your parents die and leave you a million dollars, at which point you can retire early. But if you're smart and poor? Well, you'll go to the crappy, underfunded school in the poor neighborhood, and you won't get much help in preparing for university. After getting rejected from every university you apply to, you'll struggle in vain to make something of yourself, and though you may succeed eventually, the statistics aren't in your favor.

I just think that everybody should have access to the basics: a decent education, healthcare, and the obvious ones, like food and shelter and all that. This country spends more money on the military and, in some states, PRISONS, than on education and childcare. These documents support the prison claim; the military one should be self-evident, especially given the war:

http://www.pewcenteronthestates.org/upl ... %20100.pdf
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/02/29/prisons

The irony is that education has been demonstrated to be an extremely effective deterrent against increased crime (and therefore, incarceration) rates.

Anyway, regarding the Copenhagen thing- did anybody else see how they imported hundreds (or was it thousands?) of limousines to the thing? They literally had to drive them in from neighboring countries because there simply weren't enough limousines within Denmark's borders. Each limousine carried only one person at a time to the climate meeting. Does it sound like these people believe what they're preaching? Should we restrict ourselves to ugly Priuses while they're being driven to these things in imported limousines?

If Al Gore gives up his private jet and these other hypocrites stop doing EXACTLY what they're telling us not to do, then MAYBE I'll give them another listen. Until then, I have a very difficult time believing that this isn't motivated by the $$$.



TheDoctor82
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16 Dec 2009, 3:20 am

Cactus_Man wrote:
Eh... you didn't directly address much.

First off, how do "regulations penalize everyone?" For one thing, we need to be clear on what is meant by "regulations," since I'm getting the feeling that we're talking about two different things. As I said, I'm in favor of regulation within reason- meaning, you know, common sense things, like "it's illegal to hire convicted child molesters if you're running a preschool." (Fun fact: in certain states, you can LEGALLY hire convicted child molesters to work in youth care facilities.) If you're referring to things like affirmative action, then no, I don't think that's very "common sense." (If somebody is a dick and doesn't want to hire you because of your race/gender/orientation, then do you really want to work for this guy anyway?)

Secondly, when did I imply that I have anything against the rich? On the contrary, I think that the income tax rate should be flat across the board. (Now, having said that, I also think it's time to force the CEO's to pay their fair share of taxes in the first place... I'm talking to you, Jobs!) Barring some unforeseen incident, I'll probably end up at least somewhat wealthy myself, so I certainly don't want them to be punished in any way.

All I'm saying is that everybody should have the opportunity to be successful if they're willing to work for it, but the reality is that there are many people who have the potential to be big but can't get out of their rut. If you're an idiot, but your parents are rich, guess what? Your mommy and daddy are going to slip USC (or almost any other private university) some extra tuition money, and you'll get in despite your B average. From there, you'll get the nice job that your dad hooks you up with, and you'll barely hold onto it until your parents die and leave you a million dollars, at which point you can retire early. But if you're smart and poor? Well, you'll go to the crappy, underfunded school in the poor neighborhood, and you won't get much help in preparing for university. After getting rejected from every university you apply to, you'll struggle in vain to make something of yourself, and though you may succeed eventually, the statistics aren't in your favor.

I just think that everybody should have access to the basics: a decent education, healthcare, and the obvious ones, like food and shelter and all that. This country spends more money on the military and, in some states, PRISONS, than on education and childcare. These documents support the prison claim; the military one should be self-evident, especially given the war:

http://www.pewcenteronthestates.org/upl ... %20100.pdf
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/02/29/prisons

The irony is that education has been demonstrated to be an extremely effective deterrent against increased crime (and therefore, incarceration) rates.

Anyway, regarding the Copenhagen thing- did anybody else see how they imported hundreds (or was it thousands?) of limousines to the thing? They literally had to drive them in from neighboring countries because there simply weren't enough limousines within Denmark's borders. Each limousine carried only one person at a time to the climate meeting. Does it sound like these people believe what they're preaching? Should we restrict ourselves to ugly Priuses while they're being driven to these things in imported limousines?

If Al Gore gives up his private jet and these other hypocrites stop doing EXACTLY what they're telling us not to do, then MAYBE I'll give them another listen. Until then, I have a very difficult time believing that this isn't motivated by the $$$.



Tell me...you mentioned about some kid being stupid with his parents being rich, and paying the way to his success. How long do you think that success really lasts if the kid is a dumbass?

As for those who are smart with unsuccessful parents, if you're really good at what you do--and ambitious enough--you'll find a way to get where you want to be. Technically, it seems as though you're blaming everyone else for when some "smart" people can't figure out for themselves how to succeed in life.

I dropped out of college, and now own my own business that is slowly becoming more and more successful. My parents were broke, and my partner and I barely invested any money in our business...cause we could only invest what we had; we're still doing really well all things considered.

Oh, those CEOs do pay that "fair share" of taxes that you're insisting. Y'see, no matter how much they pay though, you'll just want them to pay more...y'know, 'stick it to the rich guy"...for whatever reason. Oh...so now you don't want to be too heavily taxed because you plan to be that successful too. I see....

Actually, last I heard our country spends more on social programs than the military...and those social programs are failing miserably, as they always do, and have everywhere else. The only reason it's difficult to tell with other countries is because the USA is rich enough to keep other countries prosperous....also we Americans are somehow under the belief that everyone else in the world lives with the same basic rights and freedoms that we do; so naive...welcome to humanity.

And please don't start me on the military...the most successful military operation we ever pulled off was on ourselves, during the Civil War. I don't think we should be in Afghanistan or Iraq either..but there is a particular city we should be in......not like you'd really care to know, though....

Getting back to your original question: how do regulations 'penalize" everyone. Simple, when regulations are imposed, they get imposed on all companies. All companies must follow the same regulations, whether they're good Capitalists, or Pseudo-Capitalists.

In fact here's a fun one:

a regulation was approved just last year stating that no open or handmade items could be sold in stores/given to charity. The only way around this is to mention that the merchandise is not for children.

this regulation was brought on by the whole lead paint toy scare. the thing is...this regulation has absolutely nothing to do with lead paint toys being imported from China...at all.

Yet, my partner was busy for hours on end updating all the items on our website with a new warning label, in regards for this; that was time we could've spent coming up with new strategies, or something else truly proactive.


And btw...please don't talk to me like I'm some Pseudo-Capitalist Right-Wing Republican; I find it considerably insulting.

I'm not. I'm not even political anymore. You wanted answers, I gave them to you. Are they the answers you want to hear? I highly doubt it, but that's beyond my control.



ruennsheng
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16 Dec 2009, 4:17 am

Invest on solar energy NOW! :)


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