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SporadSpontan
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22 Dec 2009, 8:36 pm

Magnus wrote:
Yes, of course...

But, still we need emotions I think. There are lower emotions beneath reason and higher emotions above reason.


But isn't that just another emotional point-of-view that could be obscuring one common fundamental truth? I'm after a truth that surpasses all emotions, all conditioning, and eventually..... all conception!! lol (As much as I love conception and everything! lol)


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22 Dec 2009, 8:38 pm

haha

I was referring to altruism. They are emotional acts that defy reason, not rational...


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22 Dec 2009, 9:03 pm

Magnus wrote:
haha

I was referring to altruism. They are emotional acts that defy reason, not rational...


ah - cool! I love altruism too. I guess it's just a definition thing then because I see altruism as a conception, not an emotion. It's a thought process - wishing to benefit others. Also I don't see it as defying reason, but rather that reason substantiates it. For instance: a person is cold (reason) so you give them a blanket (altruism).


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22 Dec 2009, 9:17 pm

hehe

That is funny that I see that as an emotional response and not a reasonable one. Why do you care if that person is cold? :lol: I guess if there were societal rules we had to follow, it would make sense to act out if altruism that stems from reason alone.


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22 Dec 2009, 9:26 pm

Magnus wrote:
hehe

That is funny that I see that as an emotional response and not a reasonable one. Why do you care if that person is cold? :lol: I guess if there were societal rules we had to follow, it would make sense to act out if altruism that stems from reason alone.


Altruism doesn't have to depend on societal rules (thank goodness!), but rather by observing our own situation we can understand the situation of others. For instance we know what it feels like to be cold, that it can be unpleasant when we're shivering. Then when we see the other person shivering we can assume that it is an unpleasant experience for them. We apply this reasoning to our altruistic action of giving them a blanket. It comes from a shared human experience which I think is born from reason.


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22 Dec 2009, 9:33 pm

That is empathy. But, it is possible for people to perform acts of kindness without empathizing. It would be ideal if we could be non-emotional yet altruistic, like the star trek people.


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22 Dec 2009, 9:45 pm

Magnus wrote:
That is empathy. But, it is possible for people to perform acts of kindness without empathizing. It would be ideal if we could be non-emotional yet altruistic, like the star trek people.


It may be empathy, but empathy doesn't necessarily imply 'emotion'. I have a dictionary definition here that reads: 'appreciative perception or understanding'. We can be like the star trek people! lol I don't think it's possible to know what would be considered kind to another person without understanding their needs at least to some extent. Without some understanding it would just be sheer luck if we could manage to perform acts of kindness!


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22 Dec 2009, 9:47 pm

Yeah, that gut instinct sure cuts to the chase. Have you read Blink? It's about how we form decisions quickly, often more precise than by reasoning alone.


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22 Dec 2009, 9:51 pm

Magnus wrote:
Yeah, that gut instinct sure cuts to the chase. Have you read Blink? It's about how we form decisions quickly, often more precise than by reasoning alone.


Sorry, you've lost me. ?


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22 Dec 2009, 9:58 pm

It said that the gut had more nerve cells than the brain. So that " gut feeling" is really a more solid decision than the quick thought of the brain.

http://www.amazon.com/tag/gut%20instinct


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22 Dec 2009, 10:03 pm

Magnus wrote:
It said that the gut had more nerve cells than the brain. So that " gut feeling" is really a more solid decision than the quick thought of the brain.

http://www.amazon.com/tag/gut%20instinct


hmmm, not sure. I'm all for instantaneous reaction - but I'm distrusting of anything that can't be established by reason.


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22 Dec 2009, 10:07 pm

I don't blame you. I'd rather live in a world filled with rational people than emotional ones, considering the past of human history. But, that is not to say that we cannot achieve something even higher than reason. Sorry if I lost you again, it's been real nice chatting with you. Welcome to WP. It's always nice to have another chick on PPR to banter with.


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22 Dec 2009, 10:46 pm

Thanks Magnus. It's been nice chatting with you too. And I also believe it's possible to attain a state/consciousness that goes beyond reason and all conception. And can hardly wait! lol


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22 Dec 2009, 11:32 pm

SporadSpontan wrote:
Thanks Magnus. It's been nice chatting with you too. And I also believe it's possible to attain a state/consciousness that goes beyond reason and all conception. And can hardly wait! lol


The viewpoint that reason and emotion are conflicting forces is detrimental to vigorous and intimate integration into observation and acceptance of the universe. There is nothing more emotionally exciting than a new understanding of how the universe functions.



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22 Dec 2009, 11:45 pm

I think that when two conflicting forces (be it opposing viewpoints or whatever polar opposites) desire to merge for a common truth, then both parties can put aside their differences for the common good which is objectivity. All egos aside, there is something greater than you or me and what we perceive to be true, there is a fuller perception of the big picture.


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22 Dec 2009, 11:48 pm

Sand wrote:
There is nothing more emotionally exciting than a new understanding of how the universe functions.

Well, that last part could be false, but it has been partially confirmed with experimental data.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... -to-inform