I always end up becoming the beta of a male social group

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AspiRob
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30 Dec 2009, 4:01 pm

racooneyes wrote:
Rob there's an amazing book called What Every Body Is Saying by Joe Navarro that will let you know everything you just said you don't know in that post, I highly recommend it (and have several times lol).


Thanks for the advice. I will look into it.


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AspiRob
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30 Dec 2009, 4:47 pm

AspiRob wrote:
racooneyes wrote:
Rob there's an amazing book called What Every Body Is Saying by Joe Navarro that will let you know everything you just said you don't know in that post, I highly recommend it (and have several times lol).


Thanks for the advice. I will look into it.


I have just purchased a copy of the listed book on eBay. I will let you know what I think when it turns up and I have had a chance to read it.


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MJackson
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30 Dec 2009, 9:08 pm

None of my friends tease me or try to bring me down...they let me be or build me up...I agree with aspie rob. If i didnt find the friends I have now, I would disagree with aspie rob. In the group I'm in there is no beta or alpha...everyone just bes themselves. Unfotunately last year I hung out with some guys who teased me and said racist things to me like n****r and so forth...i stopped hanging out with them.



MJackson
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30 Dec 2009, 9:19 pm

roadGames wrote:
AspiRob wrote:
roadGames wrote:
I used to think I needed a group to go out to bars and parties with, but I've found I can do it solo no problem and I usually have a blast. The last two times I went out solo (no alcohol involved whatsoever), girls were initiating conversations with me, dancing with me on the street randomly, and I was making friends for the night with some of the dudes there.


God Almighty - it sounds like you have the whole social scene worked out. I wish I was that clued in.


It's not as difficult as it sounds. You just need to desensitize yourself to it by going out a lot. Most people are drunk and just wanna have a good time. Be friendly, relaxed, and gentle with people.

Part of the fun I get out of it is that it's instant feedback on how you approach women. After 70+ approaches (spread them out over many venues and weeks or else you're going to get a weird reputation), you're gonna be able to read female signals very, very well regardless of an ASD.

I can now see the initial signs of attraction from random girls on the street without even talking to them just by watching their eyes. (Note that this is coming from a person clinically diagnosed with an ASD who used to never make eye contact with anybody.) *90% of the time, when a girl holds eye contact with me and then looks down with a bit of a blush or smile, this girl is going to turn out to be very friendly with me. Sometimes she'll even say "Hi. My name's [blahblahblah]" before I even open my mouth.

*This mainly happens when I'm out during the day, not at night. At night, the smiling rarely occurs unless it's a long eye contact and I wink or something. What you should be doing at night is just maybe a second of eye contact as you approach the girl, don't flinch, and boom it's now your time to say something. It doesn't matter what you say, just say something. I like to do "What's up? My name's roadGames."

I do get approached a lot by women (around twice a night), though. Sometimes they're super cute girls and sometimes they're kind of flabby. For me, I think the key to getting approached by girls at bars/clubs is just to dress well and not oogle the girls (i.e. check them out). It might not even be body language. The first time I went out with the guys, I dressed up really freaking nice (cream colored blazer and a nice matching button-up I found at goodwill) and styled my hair. During this night I was COMPLETELY nervous. My shoulders were scrunched up aspie style, I never made eye contact with a single person, my hands were in my pockets, I moved like I had a stick up my butt, and I clenched my beer to my chest. My body language was so poor that this group of dudes stopped me asking if I'm OK. Despite this, one girl tried to grab my ass, this cute girl pulled me aside to be in a picture with her, and two other girls high-fived me trying to get me to dance with them. I initiated the interactions with not a single one of these girls. Since that first night out, my body language improved tremendously, enough so that a good amount of girls like it when I'm the approacher. I've met many girls through petitioning now, haha.

Regardless, figuring out how to maintain social status in a group of socially calibrated guys is a complete mystery to me at the moment. Is it simply not being a reactive person?


U sound like me...I get all crunched up at parties, and I get approached by girls a lot. Many have said Im cute. That's the only type of game I really have, my looks. It works. But if one is not goodlooking idk what to say. But it seems like roadgames knows what he's doing. keep it up, and dont worry about that weird alpha dude or whatever you may call him.



monsterland
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04 Jan 2010, 5:10 am

I used to be really poor at comebacks and recognizing/deflecting teasing in face-to-face contact.

But I learned a few things...

1) part of why I was crappy at reactions (only thinking of witty replies later) was because I was attached to being "ALPHA MALE or NOTHING".It was too stressful. It was WAR. It didn't even occur to me that there's a place in the middle. I may never be an alpha male, because it is simply not me, but I can draw a space around myself, and stop others from disrespecting it.

2) I let the other person define the "channel" of conversation, and was unable to switch out of it.

3) I cared too much about what people think. I pulled judgement in, but I didn't push any out. THEY should worry what *I* think about THEM !

How much I've improved, has been demonstrated recently when I met a high school buddy who tried to treat me the same way as he did in high school.

He kept projecting various "teases" on me, testing my boundaries. He also brought a buddy of his for moral support.

For instance, he spotted that I just had my "normal face" on, not "pretend social face". So he went:

"You look sad. Are we boring you ?"

Old me would've been locked into this conversational channel, and replied "No you are not. I am not sad." defensively.

Instead, I said "This is just how I am. Don't be so sensitive."

Perceived weakness shifted from me back to him, so that channel was shut down.

Later he tried casually calling me a profane word; I immediately said, interrupting him: "Watch your language". Friendly, but also loudly enough. He apologized.

The old me would've just let it slide.



chuzla
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07 Jan 2010, 1:21 pm

I have the opposite problem-I always end up being the alpha even though I'm female. I always end up in the friend zone (or alone) after that...



dsfargeg
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07 Jan 2010, 6:46 pm

In Mexico, being a master at sexual innuendo and sarcastic homosexual remarks is seen as manly. Don't ask me how, but somehow I managed to learn this "art" to some degree back in middle and high school. What I do when someone teases me in that way is either go along with it, or if I can't think of a comeback, throwing it off like nothing happened. In the first one, if someone teases you and says "Or maybe you have the hots for Bryan...", I say in a sarcastic tone "Yeah... Bryan is so hot. I want to f**k him real bad". It sounds contradictory, but most of the time this sends the guys laughing their asses off. If you just want to blow it off, use my universal comeback: "Nah nah nah nah nah, f**k no!".

This has been how I've been rolling in regards to interaction with the guys, with actually good success :3



Dentu
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07 Jan 2010, 11:44 pm

I crack jokes and use sarcasm like a venom whip. It keeps me from being a beta. In exchange, I am monstrously hard to approach. The girls that like me divert their eyes and never talk to me, apparently thinking I can get snappy. Guys that want to be friends tend to become sycophants.

It's not pleasant. I really don't recommend this. On the other hand, whenever I do actually find a good friend or relationship, it tends to be someone with nerves of steel. Exactly the right person to accept an aspie wholesale.



passionatebach
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08 Jan 2010, 1:11 am

As a person that has been a part of an group of alpha males (high school basketball team), good natured kidding and teasing in the norm. These actions can sometimes go as far as including playful physical contact (wrestling, play fighting, etc). This is normal behavior, but I can understand how a person with AS can easily misinterpret it.

On the other hand, a group of males that I tried to break into their group, and unfortunately made uncomfortable tried to set me up in the worst possible way. It didn't help that a longtime friend was a part of this group. They set me up that I was a homosexual. I am at an age where that doesn't bother me anymore. Unfortunately, they tried to brand me with a perverted form of homosexuality (they set me up that I wanted a picture of my friend's rear end). I drew the line with that action, sadly I was a little too naive as to what they were trying to do.

I guess some groups accept you, where as others don't.