Baby and mother come back from the dead

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ruveyn
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03 Jan 2010, 2:44 am

CRD wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/world/miracle-mum-bub-back-from-the-dead/story-e6frfkyi-1225815158944


Define "dead".

ruveyn



ruveyn
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03 Jan 2010, 2:45 am

zena4 wrote:
I love miracles - especially when doctors are there but can't explain.

Thanks to share that non-trivial news.


There are no miracles. There are things we understand and things we do not understand. Five hundred years ago a simple flashlight would have been considered a miracle or the work of the Devil.

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leejosepho
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03 Jan 2010, 7:46 am

ruveyn wrote:
There are no miracles. There are things we understand and things we do not understand.


Understanding is not the deciding factor there, and the idea of something having no explanation apart from divine intervention actually *is* understandable ... and there is no other viable explanation for some things, possibly including the fact that a mother and baby essentially "left for dead" (even if they actually were not) yet live.


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Scientist
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03 Jan 2010, 10:02 am

ruveyn wrote:
CRD wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/world/miracle-mum-bub-back-from-the-dead/story-e6frfkyi-1225815158944
Define "dead".

ruveyn
Which one of the definitions do you want?
I named a few above (page 1). According to the latter one, the mum was dead and the baby was almost dead.
ruveyn wrote:
zena4 wrote:
I love miracles - especially when doctors are there but can't explain.

Thanks to share that non-trivial news.
There are no miracles. There are things we understand and things we do not understand. Five hundred years ago a simple flashlight would have been considered a miracle or the work of the Devil.

ruveyn
Things we can't explain and which are surprising and fortunate are also called miracles. So they sure exist.


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tektek
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03 Jan 2010, 5:53 pm

...a word from our field reporter:

Quote:
...when asked how she was feeling, the mother responded only by saying "brainnnnsss!"



hehe :D


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ruveyn
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03 Jan 2010, 8:20 pm

Scientist wrote:
Things we can't explain and which are surprising and fortunate are also called miracles. So they sure exist.


Only as a facon de parler. There are truly no miracles because everything that exists is physical and natural.

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leejosepho
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03 Jan 2010, 8:39 pm

ruveyn wrote:
There are truly no miracles because everything that exists is physical and natural.


... and you can prove that?! :wink:

What physical or natural explanation might you have for the fact I no longer drink alcohol? And, I ask within this context:

"Many of us felt that we had plenty of character. There was a tremendous urge to cease forever. Yet we found it impossible. This is the baffling feature of alcoholism as we know it - this utter inability to leave it alone, no matter how great the necessity or the wish ...
"Our human resources, as marshalled by the will, were not sufficient; they failed utterly."
("A.A.", the book, pages 34 and 45)


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tektek
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03 Jan 2010, 8:55 pm

leejosepho wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
There are truly no miracles because everything that exists is physical and natural.


... and you can prove that?! :wink:

What physical or natural explanation might you have for the fact I no longer drink alcohol? And, I ask within this context:

"Many of us felt that we had plenty of character. There was a tremendous urge to cease forever. Yet we found it impossible. This is the baffling feature of alcoholism as we know it - this utter inability to leave it alone, no matter how great the necessity or the wish ...
"Our human resources, as marshalled by the will, were not sufficient; they failed utterly."
("A.A.", the book, pages 34 and 45)


if i may interject...

you realised your priorities and your faith in yourself helped you to stop drinking... that and support from other people. i believe that is the natural explanation.

you were able to do that because you re-evaluated yourself, found that you wanted to change, and you did change because you are a capable and responsible human being. :thumleft:

i see no magic or miracles involved here, it was all down to you and you achieved a great thing. give yourself some credit. :D


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leejosepho
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03 Jan 2010, 9:26 pm

tektek wrote:
if i may interject...


Certainly!

tektek wrote:
you realised your priorities ...


Yes, I wanted to live ...

tektek wrote:
and your faith in yourself ...


I had none of that whatsoever. I had failed completely at life, and I knew there was absolutely nothing I could do for myself. That is my actual and personal experience, and here is one way that is expressed in "A.A.", the book:

"... my friend sat before me, and he made the point-blank declaration that God had done for him what he could not do for himself. His human will had failed. Doctors had pronounced him incurable. Society was about to lock him up. Like myself, he had admitted complete defeat. Then he had, in effect, been raised from the dead, suddenly taken from the scrap heap to a level of life better than the best he had ever known!
"Had this power originated in him? Obviously it had not. There had been no more power in him than there was in me at that minute; and this was none at all." (page 11)

tektek wrote:
... and support from other people.


That is some jargon from today's A.A., not the original.

tektek wrote:
... you re-evaluated yourself, found that you wanted to change ...


I was willing *to be* changed ...

"To get over drinking will require a transformation of thought and attitude." (page 143)

Then I took the Steps (which included re-evaluating myself as powerless at Step One) in order for an actual change to take place.

tektek wrote:
... and you did change because you are a capable and responsible human being.


I greatly respect and appreciate your thought there, but that is not what happened. When I first got sober, I could not have poured piss from my boot even if you had told me the instructions were on the bottom.

tektek wrote:
i see no magic or miracles involved here ...


Definitely no magic, but definitely this:

"We, who have recovered from serious drinking, are miracles of mental health." (page 133)


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ShadesOfMe
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05 Jan 2010, 5:50 am

That's amazing! I love how they both "came back to life" at the same time.



collectoritis
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05 Jan 2010, 8:02 am

He's back !

The man behind the mask......and he's out of control !

:lol: :twisted:



coregazer
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05 Jan 2010, 8:33 am

Wow, nice article, very heartwarming! I have great faith in the human body, possibly more than anything else in the world. So it didn't surprise me, so much as it did make me glad for the husband, baby and wife!


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