A beautiful example of theological reasoning

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How about a call to AAA?

As a woman, I'm afraid, I've been taught to never pull over and help someone in a broken down car. Not safe for me, and, to be honest, given my personal lack of interest or ability with automotives, truly ineffective for you.

I was hoping to make that funnier than I've been able to - I think we could use a light moment here

Personally, I expect they were grateful that you stayed and gave the animal some peace. One little worry taken off their shoulders forever. Those were generous gifts, and I doubt there was anything else you could have done, so your actions appear appropriate all around. To me.

It seems to me that one can only get the "feel good" effect for the effort if one can visibly see that their compassion has improved something for someone. Without that, it isn't much different than putting check marks on a piece of paper. I guess some people are happy with putting check marks on a piece of paper, but most I know are not. The reward is in knowing it actually helped. When it doesn't, you back to the drawing board and work on the skill, so that the next time maybe it will actually help.

In that way, the person trying to give does learn something and acheives personal growth. But that wasn't the goal to start. It was the desire to make it better, the pain you saw, no matter how lacking in tools.

I don't think that I reach out to people, when I do, in order to feel good and feed my ego. I think that the positive response is what encourages one to do it again, but not what creates the first spark. It's just, well, there. Some people may have more of it than others, and the way people travel the road may differ based on personal needs, ego, and beliefs. At some point it can also feel like a burden, knowing you could help - based on past experience - and feeling that you are selfish when you don't step out of your way to do so. There just isn't a one-size-fits-all explanation for the results and reasons; each person's journey is so different.

I have seen so much real and appropriate and unselfish compassion in my life. Its not perfect, and it isn't always there when its needed, but it does exist.

I once met a man who made me believe that people really can create their own hell in life. He had, or was within one at that moment. So cold, so sure that nothing good could come from anyone else. I've never forgotten, because it made me so sad. Nothing I could ever do or say would change his perspective for he, by his own actions, insisted on affirming his negative view of humanity. He elicited from other people the response he expected. But, you know, that can work both ways. A person can elicit responses that make the world seem a lot more beautiful to them, by how they expect others to act. Sorry, this paragraph is a digression, but something about this conversation led me to remember that man.

This thread is less than a dozen members of this website. Some 600 unique individuals are browsing the Wrong Planet at any given moment. Take a breath, regroup, and maybe avoid PPR for a while. Its a bit of a rough place But don't allow how you feel in this thread to color your entire experience at Wrong Planet.

what happened?

should I delete my last post or something?

I don't think its you.

In my comment about the personal rewards from helping people and other suffering creatures I did not mean to imply there was anything wrong with feeling good about extending aid. Merely that it was a solid psychological mechanism and the act is a two way street. The important point is that the aid is real and effective. That's what makes it doubly rewarding.

I can't believe sporadspontan left wp like that. although I did the same thing last year. its just that he rounded out all conversations that I saw him in. He is an extreemly insightfull logical thinker and I hope he comes back. This site is edgy i get why he left, but its often easyer in here than out there. Im writing here while I recuperate from a fruitless money blowing birthday shopping trip for my better half. Talk about suffering I literally nocked my head against the wall late into the bullsh't, of shopping with an NT woman. Bloody torture.

Come back sporadspontan

SporadSpontan seems to be a she.

whoah I had no idea.

Well I wish she would come back.

If these conversations were in Finnish there would be no problem. In Finnish there is no he nor she. Only hän.

I'm so sorry everyone for any confusion I may have caused!! !! I just burnt out that's all. I'm really not used to communicating with people - and internet interaction seems to be just as draining as other interactions are for me. If I could find a way to participate in WP more sporadically (like my name ha!) then I would do that - but I'm just not good at doing things in less than full measures. So oh well.

And I just got overwhelmed when I could foresee so much information that I wanted to share in this thread and doubted I was going to be able to convey more than a shell of my intended meaning. So I just gave up.

And thanks for your suggestions to go elsewhere on the site. I have actually tried out some of the other forums - but PPR just happens to be my favourite one. And I don't even mind the arguments - I'm not weak - I grew up in this sort of environment. I just get frustrated by misinterpretations - both by myself and others. Sometimes it reminds me of the horrors of being at a dinner table with a group of people all talking over each other!!

So with that said, I'm actually going to pick up where I left off - because I really do love this thread very much. And compassion - which is thoroughly dependent on suffering - happens to be a topic that's very dear to me.

The reasons I don't feel it pointless to have compassion in times when effective assistance might not possible is this:

1) Prevention. By cultivating a mind of compassion the thought of another's suffering becomes unbearable. This would therefore act to prevent one from being the cause of another's suffering. Where else would mercy come from if it's not the wish that another be free of pain? So if compassion was widely cultivated throughout the world's population it would cease and prevent many of the sufferings that are caused by human cruelty. In a way I would almost equate ignorance with a lack of compassion as it prevents one from seeing the needs of others. And the needs of others are - let's face it - so much greater than the needs of oneself.

2) Perspective. That brings me to point 2 - as previously mentioned, a lot of our mental suffering comes from focusing solely on our own needs. When we extend our awareness out to others it can give us more purpose in life. It puts our own suffering in perspective when we see how insignificant it is in comparison to the sufferings of the world. Also self-pity is very much non-productive, whereas a concern for others has the possibility of leading to action.

3) Hope of assistance. That brings me to point 3 - how can there be a hope of helping others who are in need of assistance if the thought to alleviate their suffering (ie compassion) doesn't precede it? Hence the importance of cultivating this state of mind regardless of whether one can actually bring about effective assistance - because without the thought there's no hope of action.

bigblock - Your story about the dog being hit is very very sad. And I think I know what you mean by how unbearable it is to enter ourselves into the suffering of others - if it's done in a true way. And I would totally agree with that. There's actually a beautiful (myth!) story about Chenrezig, the buddha of compassion who, when finally realising the full extent of the sufferings of others his whole body totally split apart!! !! ! Which is why he is depicted with 1000 arms and 11 heads! The suffering of others was just mind-blowing I guess!! !

So the way I see it is that maintaining functionality is more important than experiencing the same level of suffering that is being observed. I don't think this is unfair on the one who is suffering because we have a better chance of being able to assist them if we retain our composure. And to be fair on the one who is suffering - by all rights they should not want anyone else to have to suffer like they are. Afterall the point is to minimise suffering, not add to it.

Even though it can be really hard, I refuse to cry when I'm with a person or animal who is dying because I want to create the most peaceful situation for them on their way out. (This is after methods to save their life have been exhausted of course!) So I consider it to be the most helpful act I can do for them - to have someone there with them that's honest (I tell them straight up if they're dying), and centred. I worry that if I cry it will make them more fearful. The other thing I do is to create a peaceful state in my own mind (and I chant mantras!) and hope that somehow I can connect this with the mind of the one who is dying. This may serve no other purpose than to set my own mind at ease - but I really think that's what we have to do. The creation of thoughts/beliefs have a really great place in times of suffering when nothing else can be done to alleviate it - like in death. That's precisely why I have no qualms with the different religious beliefs that can help in this way.

I think the suffering of others becomes pointless if we allow ourselves to suffer with them. But by finding their suffering unbearable (and I guess it's a fine line!) it can propel us to do what we can to alleviate it. And when it can't be alleviated we adjust our thought patterns to find a way to make ourselves suffer less from the experience. This is more practical than selfish.

I really think that the state of mind that each of us cultivates has a much larger impact on our world. Like 'collective consciousness' or something like that. So I think that 2 beings - like a dying dog and the human that assists it - can have a merging of the minds. If the human can keep their mind peaceful it could possibly have a reassuring effect on the dog. Of course I can't prove that!! !! But the mere thought of this is what helps to keep me from splitting apart! (The house I live in is on a main road so a lot of wildlife gets hit by cars around here). And to coincide with your story - it was just a few months ago when a brindle dog (I think it was a boxer) got hit. The gash on his head was quite small but the blood that was pumping out of it was unbelievable. So I was almost kneeling in the blood as I stayed by him. The blood smelled so putrid I could hardly breathe. People told me to get off the road because I could have been hit by a car as well (but when I have single-minded determination I don't tend to listen to common-sense advice!! !) and I didn't want to exacerbate his suffering by dragging him off the road. I didn't want him to die alone just with the noise and the lights of the traffic going past him. So I just wanted to be something that loved him and was peaceful with him as he passed. And I think you did that for the bull mastif as well.

I think if we balance our thoughts correctly we can find a purpose in the suffering. If we get too sad - then think of more hopeful things. If we get too numb - think more deeply of the experience of the one who is suffering. I think it's a skill like walking along a tightrope. But without the acknowledgement of suffering - people won't care to alleviate or prevent it - that's the meaning that I see in it.

Sorry for the long post - have no idea if anyone will read it. I normally am sensitive about taking up too much space or time - but this time I just thought 'stuff it'! I don't know if I'll be able to come back to WP or not. You all know what it's like to have Asperger's!!? I'm lucky if I know what I'm doing 5% of the time!! ! And it's tearing me up that I can't find a better balance. But thanks again everyone because I really do love this site, and PPR and this thread.

And yes! - I'm a she!! lol But I don't care what gender I'm perceived as - I much prefer that our posts are interpreted accurately over our identity!

I can't say definatively that I am aspergers but I really enjoy reading what you write.
You write probably my favorite posts.
I took off from here a year ago because I worried about everything I wrote. But even after trouble this year people like you and sand have kept me coming back.

I am sorry that you experience so much suffering. I think there is no better way to deal with it than you described. Careful on the road, I'm coming through and you'll give me a heart attack if your in the middle with that poor dog.