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phil777
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15 Jan 2010, 3:12 am

Souls taste great with spirits. ;P



Sand
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15 Jan 2010, 5:06 am

Friskeygirl wrote:
Sand wrote:
Friskeygirl wrote:
anything that is alive has a soul, and do tell me animal's don't have souls, if your keep a pet that your love. People that don't believe in one are rather empty spiritless nothings that should shut their mouths and lie down in the dirt and rot, because whats the use of going on if your a dead soulless lump


You must be terribly frightened of dying. Sorry about that. It can't be avoided.

Not at all, don't put your fears on me, dying is just part of life, something we all will go though, its rather pathetic being so empty inside how do you cope, must really suck not seeing the world around you as alive, in your view we are all animated lumps of flesh with pre-programed responses to stimuli, wtf do you care if others see life as a miracle, if its a delusion so what, its my delusion.


A miracle is some event contrary to the laws of physics and chemistry. Nothing sofar discovered has revealed life operates outside of scientific laws. A soul, aof course, would fith that bill which is why no observed confirmation of a soul has occurred.



ValMikeSmith
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15 Jan 2010, 6:04 am

phil777 wrote:
Souls taste great with spirits. ;P


Obviously punny, but...

Soul = a living body
Spirit = the breath of life, and also means the same as ghost,
except when a ghost is a hallucination.

If two people see a ghost, it is an evil spirit, since dead people don't "live" on earth.



Sand
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15 Jan 2010, 6:07 am

ValMikeSmith wrote:
phil777 wrote:
Souls taste great with spirits. ;P


Obviously punny, but...

Soul = a living body
Spirit = the breath of life, and also means the same as ghost,
except when a ghost is a hallucination.

If two people see a ghost, it is an evil spirit, since dead people don't "live" on earth.


Ahaa. Then evil spirits do live on Earth. I've never met one.



Ambivalence
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15 Jan 2010, 7:06 am

Sand wrote:
A miracle is some event contrary to the laws of physics and chemistry. Nothing sofar discovered has revealed life operates outside of scientific laws. A soul, aof course, would fith that bill which is why no observed confirmation of a soul has occurred.


It would fall outside of currently known scientific laws. Science is an approach to working things out for ourselves, not a prescriptive description of what does and does not exist.


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Sand
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15 Jan 2010, 7:22 am

Ambivalence wrote:
Sand wrote:
A miracle is some event contrary to the laws of physics and chemistry. Nothing sofar discovered has revealed life operates outside of scientific laws. A soul, aof course, would fith that bill which is why no observed confirmation of a soul has occurred.


It would fall outside of currently known scientific laws. Science is an approach to working things out for ourselves, not a prescriptive description of what does and does not exist.


When something falls outside of known scientific laws then science readjusts the laws. That is how science progresses. But by definition a miracle is never permitted within scientific laws since that would invalidate science. Miracles are simply not permitted.



iamnotaparakeet
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15 Jan 2010, 9:03 am

Sand wrote:
Ambivalence wrote:
Sand wrote:
A miracle is some event contrary to the laws of physics and chemistry. Nothing sofar discovered has revealed life operates outside of scientific laws. A soul, aof course, would fith that bill which is why no observed confirmation of a soul has occurred.


It would fall outside of currently known scientific laws. Science is an approach to working things out for ourselves, not a prescriptive description of what does and does not exist.


When something falls outside of known scientific laws then science readjusts the laws. That is how science progresses. But by definition a miracle is never permitted within scientific laws since that would invalidate science. Miracles are simply not permitted.


That's contorted. To claim that a miracle is automatically contrary to the Laws Of Nature is to appeal to ignorance, and with you, incredulity.



Sand
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15 Jan 2010, 9:51 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
Ambivalence wrote:
Sand wrote:
A miracle is some event contrary to the laws of physics and chemistry. Nothing sofar discovered has revealed life operates outside of scientific laws. A soul, aof course, would fith that bill which is why no observed confirmation of a soul has occurred.


It would fall outside of currently known scientific laws. Science is an approach to working things out for ourselves, not a prescriptive description of what does and does not exist.


When something falls outside of known scientific laws then science readjusts the laws. That is how science progresses. But by definition a miracle is never permitted within scientific laws since that would invalidate science. Miracles are simply not permitted.


That's contorted. To claim that a miracle is automatically contrary to the Laws Of Nature is to appeal to ignorance, and with you, incredulity.


This is how Wikipedia starts its section on miracles: A miracle is a perceptible interruption of the laws of nature, such that can be attempted to be explained by divine intervention.

It then goes on to say that there are many definitions of a miracle and it varies in different cultures. I took the first one as the useful one. Feel free to define it any way you want.



MissConstrue
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15 Jan 2010, 9:54 am

Death so swift
Death so quick
Death will always
For it will always be
And always it will be
Waiting for a chance
A chance to overcome
Overcome a breating life
A life that once was
Once was a life consumed
Consumed of ignorance
Ignorance and doubt
Doubt that life would ever end
End it did and thus shall be
Shall be a rotting corpse
A corpse long forgotten.

I don't know, I thought I'd try and go Ingmar Bergman regarding this topic.
Sometimes it is hard to grasp the concept of being nothing while you're something.


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Sand
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15 Jan 2010, 9:59 am

AT THE END

The last light
Of the final sight
May linger a moment on the retina
Before the industry of the mind
Reshapes the final image
To fashion the curtain
Now to be withdrawn
To reveal the final mystery.
Slowly, as the blood drains from the heart,
Slowly, as the fingertips turn blue and numb,
Slowly, as the synapses sputter and fade,
The curtain withdraws to disclose
The dingy plaster wall, replete with cracks
Behind the empty stage.



MissConstrue
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15 Jan 2010, 10:03 am

^Lol you're a pro at this.


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zer0netgain
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15 Jan 2010, 10:43 am

Asmodeus wrote:
Souls
I'm sure there are some people here that believe they and other people have souls. So some questions:

1. Do animals have souls?

1a. If you answered yes to 1, At exactly what point down the scale of species does a living organism still have a soul? eg if a cat has one, does a worm, then does amoeba, bacteria, virus, protein?

2. To what is the soul tied? For example if I transplant my brain into another person, my body dies, as does their brain, and I have executive control of their body, which plane are our souls the next day?

3. Does a genetic clone have a soul?


The Bible says "soul" means "breath of life" and all living things have that.

Now, are you talking about the issue of what makes a being sentient? There is no way that we know of to definitely prove that even humans possess anything other than a jumble of bio-mechanical hardware and software that enables us to think we have any existence outside of our current living bodies.

In religious circles, the "eternal soul" is not backed in the Bible as being true, but many say it was created as a way to appease believers. About 1/3 of respected Christian theologians believe that apart from God, nothing is sustained, so when you die, it's as if you go into a dreamless sleep. You are dead until your body is resurrected in its glorified form as there is no "spirit" or "soul" capable of existing apart from supernatural assistance.

This is interesting because cloning brings about so many metaphysical questions. In Stargate SG-1, the Asgard were an advanced alien race that chose to deliberately bio-engineer their fate. Their technology enabled them to upload an entire living mind into computers and download that mind into new cloned bodies (we can presume here that the mind was only compatible with a clone of the original body). Of course, in time the Asgard lost the ability to reproduce naturally and resorted to cloning for the current generation to go on indefinitely, and the way cloning eventually leads to nonviable clones resulted in their ultimate extinction as a race.

Still, if an Asgard was dying and transferred his mind into a computer, was it simply copying the data of his memories and knowledge and personality or was his "essence" transferred? There is no question that the clone would wake up with all the memories and knowledge of the prior body and believe it was the person who was transferred in, but the prior body, would that "essence" die with that body. Do you actually transfer the "soul" as a file from one hard drive to another or are you doing nothing more than copying it...leaving the original to perish but not suffering the loss of a life's experience?

If we could clone our bodies to live for hundreds of years, would you really still experience death when your original body gives out because your clone is just a copy of your mind, not the original "file?" I doubt we'll ever figure that out.

If you cloned yourself and animated it, no doubt it might live, learn and become its own person. Does it have a "soul?" Do you have a "soul" in the metaphysical sense? If a metaphysical soul is real, does artificially creating a life form impart a soul as an ineffable quality of being alive or does it become some creature lacking an important quality?



iamnotaparakeet
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15 Jan 2010, 10:49 am

Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
Ambivalence wrote:
Sand wrote:
A miracle is some event contrary to the laws of physics and chemistry. Nothing sofar discovered has revealed life operates outside of scientific laws. A soul, aof course, would fith that bill which is why no observed confirmation of a soul has occurred.


It would fall outside of currently known scientific laws. Science is an approach to working things out for ourselves, not a prescriptive description of what does and does not exist.


When something falls outside of known scientific laws then science readjusts the laws. That is how science progresses. But by definition a miracle is never permitted within scientific laws since that would invalidate science. Miracles are simply not permitted.


That's contorted. To claim that a miracle is automatically contrary to the Laws Of Nature is to appeal to ignorance, and with you, incredulity.


This is how Wikipedia starts its section on miracles: A miracle is a perceptible interruption of the laws of nature, such that can be attempted to be explained by divine intervention.

It then goes on to say that there are many definitions of a miracle and it varies in different cultures. I took the first one as the useful one. Feel free to define it any way you want.


... Another game of picking and choosing? Fine, I'll ignore Wikipedia and go with the definition that it is not a matter of interruption, but of superseding.



Irada
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15 Jan 2010, 11:08 am

All living things have souls. This is what separates us from inanimate objects. We can feel, think and breathe. The very fact that we are here today is nothing short of miracle. Yet science claims that a miracle is some event contrary to the laws of physics and chemistry..?


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Sand
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15 Jan 2010, 11:27 am

Irada wrote:
All living things have souls. This is what separates us from inanimate objects. We can feel, think and breathe. The very fact that we are here today is nothing short of miracle. Yet science claims that a miracle is some event contrary to the laws of physics and chemistry..?


Precisely.