High School or GED? Opinions please!

Page 1 of 2 [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Ericka
Butterfly
Butterfly

User avatar

Joined: 3 Sep 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 11
Location: U.S.A.

20 Jan 2010, 10:41 am

I turn to Wrong Planet often to read other parents posts. It is great having that, I know our family isn't alone in our struggles. I have a very strong dilema. My daughter is 16 years old. She has Pervasive developement Disorder, and has anxiety, and gets depressed easily. She was in a typical public High School. It became way too difficult for her. She has a very hard time being around kids her own age. We got her an IEP at school, and she was put in the small classes. Ten or less kids per class. All kids in the class had issues too. I went to school with her for about 2 months. Finally she went by herself, but it quickly went down hill. She would get major anxiety, and wouldn't even get out of the car. She would hyperventalate, hit herself, say bad things, ect. Well, we ended up getting her on a home bound program. (papers filled out by the doctor) She did it last semester, and did fine. The program is called MoVip. Our state lost funding, so they changed vendors. Now with the new vendor it is a lot more work and isn't set up the same way. My daughter has a very hard time with change! She is so overwhelmed with the new classes. She doesn't understand why she can't have the same teachers, and why it can't be set up the same way that it was. I have explained why to her. She also has to take 2nd semester Biology to earn credit to receive a diploma. This poses another problem. The 2nd semester unit covers Evolution. My daughter refuses to study that. She has a fear of death and gets very sad a lot about God. She asks me a lot how I know there is a heaven and things like that. I tell her what I believe and try my best to help her. She was seeming to feel a little better, and not cry so much about it lately. But now she has told me there is no way she can take a class about Evolution. She said she wouldn't be able to handle it and it would make her fears even worse. I tried telling her that it is just an opinion, and just because she learns it, doesn't mean she has to believe it. But, she says she can't and won't do it. She is telling me that MoVip is just too much for her and too hard. She wants to drop out and get her GED. I told her if she drops out, she would have to get a job. It is SO hard! We don't want her to just sit in the house her whole life. My husband and I both know she really isn't ready for a job. I really think she would hyperventilate and cry trying to go to a job interview just like she did trying to go to public school. I really do not know what to do. I try everything I can to help her.
If anyone has read this whole thing... first of all ....Thanks, I really apprieciate your time!! And second, I would love any opinions!
Thank you!



gramirez
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Nov 2008
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,827
Location: Barrington, Illinois

20 Jan 2010, 11:55 am

I'm going the non-public school route. I went to public high school last year, and had to leave at the end of April because I simply could not handle it anymore. Right now I am doing online independent study classes. It's fine, but work is still work - a lot better than going to regular school. I plan to stop school all together after this year and get a GED in 2011, still graduating ahead of my class.

As far as the future goes, employers don't care about high school education, they are only interested in your college degree(s).


_________________
Reality is a nice place but I wouldn't want to live there


DW_a_mom
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,683
Location: Northern California

20 Jan 2010, 1:21 pm

My gut reaction getting to the end of your story, for what it is or isn't worth (I am just reading on a message board, after all), is that what your daughter needs is to slow it down and take her own pace. She sounds overwhelmed by a project that feels too big for her, but that I not reading any reason she can't accomplish. Which means you tackle it much like you would a scary essay, but on a larger scale. Break it into pieces and do each piece as she is ready, in her own time, and in her own way. She doesn't need to finish "on time." She just needs to finish. I tend to feel with my son that giving in and running away keeps him from learning the very important life skill of figuring out how to get through. There is always another road, there is always another option - but you may have to search a while for it. That is something someone like my son very much needs to learn from real life experience, and it may be the same for your daughter. Keep looking for new roads to get the goal done. I think - I hope - that my son agrees with the approach we've taken on such things; there is much he has done and is proud of that he might not have otherwise. That doesn't mean I force him through things that clearly are not working, but we're not talking about "force your daughter to stay at school A here." We're talking the broader road of not giving up on getting the diploma.

As for the evolution, many Christians (including me) fit it in just fine with the Bible, so that might be another tack to take with it. But I would wait. Do all the other units around it, and see if she can maybe even pass without it. Or work on the evolution pieces that even the most conservative Christians see, the ways insects and even germs change and adapt within the span of our lifetimes. Maybe you can skip the whole theory on how man evolved, and stick with the obvious parts, and still score high enough for her to pass. Twist the road; whatever it takes.

I don't think she's ready for a job, and I think she'll regret it down the road if she doesn't have the skills to get, keep, and do well in jobs she will like. Think of her as a 10 year old trying to confront the life of an adult - anxiety and upset would be the natural outcome. She needs to find success at each step on the road to independence before she tries to live with independence. I know the GED is a great tool for many, but I see it more as for kids who want to hurry onto the next step, or have no interest in learning, more than for a child who would do well if it weren't for anxiety and other co-morbid issues. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but it sounds like your daughter needs to build confidence, and how can she do that without completing goals successfully? ANYWAY, I'm starting to ramble, but maybe some of the thoughts will help you decide. You know her and your situation; I don't. I do wish you the best of luck figuring it out.


_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).


waltur
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 May 2009
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 924
Location: california

20 Jan 2010, 3:11 pm

evolution being real doesn't preclude god being real. it just means god is more complicated than humans can understand. i'm pretty sure that's an important tenet of creationism. this approach might help her cope with the study of the subject without subjecting her desired faith to too much study.

in school, i wasn't lucky enough to know what it was that was different about me. when the school system changed their standard programs (which they did regularly here, in california, while i was growing up), it gave me a lot of anxiety that i experienced inwardly as depression and outwardly as anger. i was especially affected when i couldn't make sense of WHY the change had taken place and WHY it caused the changes that it did. if i can see how something works (which i'm very good at) i don't have to worry about it. if i can't understand how something works, it causes anxiety. if i think i know how something works and then i find out it doesn't work the way i thought it did, i go nuts.

this caused a lot of melt downs as a child and teenager. this still causes problems today, though i'm much better at dealing with it. school is difficult for a lot of us on the spectrum because the mechanics are hidden. we can see why we learn to read before we learn to write. we don't understand why two people who are friends can insult eachother and laugh and yet if we add an insult we are seen as offensive. we understand that the instructor's job is to convey the material we are intended to learn. we don't understand why two teachers who teach the same subject do so differently.

how your daughter experiences this world is vastly different than how "regular" kids experience it. it's common for all of us to question what we're told and what we're expected to believe in our teenage years. it was especially difficult for me because i couldn't help but try to reconcile reality and what i had previously understood as reality. evolution, and the way it was taught (or not taught) in schools i went to factored into this heavily. in elementary school (in north carolina), i had been taught that evolution was a scientific joke that didn't actually make sense. in middle school (in california), i had been taught the theory by people who actually cared to read about it and convey the theory instead of just their opinions about it. by the time the subject was coming up in high school, i was talking to two different biology teachers, on a daily basis, about it. the opposing views from two people who were both supposed to be right were so engrossing to me that i ditched other classes to attend both.

in the end, i used the advice of my 6th grade science teacher. he said something along the lines of "ask enough questions and the truth has no choice but to reveal itself." this proved to be the solution to my irreconcilable realities. this helped my anxiety but was a little depressing because the end result forced me to accept that even people who are supposed to be right are sometimes wrong and will very rarely let you know if they're not sure they're right.

all of this and i'm only talking about one theory taught in one subject in one part of school.

PDD makes getting to this part even harder because we're so distracted by the other students and the many worlds they make up. growing up is confusing enough for "normal kids" and school is designed with them in mind. for those of us who don't fall into that category, it's a nightmare.




your daughter has to reconcile truths that contradict each other, no matter what she chooses to do.
in school, her teachers will teach the theory of evolution. if, at home, she is taught that this is not valid, she must decide which of you is wrong.
if the teacher who teaches her the theory of evolution is wrong about that, what else is he wrong about? what of other teachers?
if it's you who's wrong, what else are you wrong about? what of other adults she respects?

now try that paradox using pictures to represent ideas instead of words. for me, dealing with things like this was extremely difficult. i would throw tantrums before school; i would throw tantrums in school; i would break things; i would say things; sometimes, i would break down and cry. it would be years before i could explain, accurately, what it was that caused these debilitating emotional breakdowns and i imagine it will be a long time yet before i'm able to explain easily.

i doubt you will find any help in the above blobs of text i've forced you to read through, if you took the time to read it at all. i'd suggest that your daughter would benefit more from wrongplanet by direct interaction (or even quiet lurking) than she will by you getting answers to questions like this. i'm not saying you shouldn't be here. i'm not saying that answers to your questions aren't going to be helpful.

i apologize if you take this the wrong way, it's just hard for me to explain. i'll try to show.

you daughter experiences something that causes her anxiety,
your daughter expresses this anxiety
you observe this expression
you question the source of the expression
she tries to translate what she is experiencing into words for an explanation
you reinterpret her explanation
you explain the issue from your perspective
you get advice
you reinterpret this advice
and whatever you do from here just complicates the situation further.

i'm not sure if that made any sense to you or if you just found it insulting. i don't mean to be insulting. it just seems like you're looking for an answer to solve the explosion of questions going on in your daughter's head right now. there isn't one.

also: the theory of evolution is covered in the GED.



musicislife
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Oct 2008
Age: 32
Gender: Female
Posts: 766
Location: whatever town, usa

20 Jan 2010, 5:56 pm

I was given no choice between private school, home school or public school; I was in public from the start and graduated this past June.

Honestly, getting a GED isn't nearly as good as getting a diploma, at least in the long run.

As for her issues with the Evolution unit, I admit that I too had some problems with the idea when my teacher first said that evolution would be a part of the year's curriculum. Of course, I had to go through the unit to even sit for the regents exam at the end of the year, so I tolerated it. The evolution unit actually strengthened my faith, in a slightly different way. God gave His creations different traits that could be passed on to the next generation, changing them after eons into something similar, but at the same time, completely different. Evolution is just another part of His grand design that we, as human beings, cannot understand. Perhaps looking at evolution through a view like that would comfort her fears of taking a class including evolution.

Good Luck!


_________________
Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth. -Mark Twain
If life gives you lemons, make grape juice, sit back and watch the world wonder how you did it.


DW_a_mom
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,683
Location: Northern California

20 Jan 2010, 7:42 pm

Waltur,

I found your post really insightful, and I suspect the OP will as well. You explained so well WHY the issue brought on so much anxiety, and it makes perfect sense to me. Thank you so much for writing all that.


_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).


Ericka
Butterfly
Butterfly

User avatar

Joined: 3 Sep 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 11
Location: U.S.A.

20 Jan 2010, 10:33 pm

Thank you so much for all of your replies!! Waltur, you definately did not insult me. I am happy for your open-ness. You are right, I don't know how my daughter "sees" things. I do try very hard to understand, and I know she is not acting that way on purpose or to get her way. I have told her and shown her the Wrong Planet site, and she doesn't want to look at it. I hope in time she will.
We are in a pinch about school because if she is going to quit MOVIP, they will drop her very soon if she doesn't submit anything. I have bent over backwards with the school, doctors, ect. to get her into MOVIP. But, I can't make her do the work either. She is a junior, needing to finish this semester, and then she only needs 5 more credits next year to graduate. I wish she could just do it, but I know it is an incredible struggle for her. What really bothers me is, if she does drop out, gets a GED........ then what? She has no interest in college. She is afraid to get a job. It is so hard!! ! We have chosen not to tell our family about our daughter's diagnosis. This has caused many problems. A lot of our family thinks our daughter is just spoiled, and we as her parents are to blame for the way our daughter acts. We have not told them because we want to protect our daughter. She doesn't want people to see her as something "wrong" with her. Which I have told her there is nothing at all wrong with her! She wants to get her GED and then stay at home and write a book. She really does not even want to get a GED, but we have told her if she drops out of school that she would have to. She is a really good artist, and also loves taking pictures. She tells me school is not for everyone. I can see that, but life isn't free either. She does love us, I do know that. She wants to be with me ALL the time. It scares me though because if something were to happen to my husband and myself she won't be able to function. I hope and pray we will always be here to care for her. I wonder if there are a lot of people with PDD that never move away from home and get a job. I'm hoping with time she will keep progressing!! I'm new to posting and haven't figured out everything yet. Not sure how to go back to see the names of the other people who posted back. But, thanks to everyone!! Honestly this site has helped me a lot. It really helps me understand her more, and it is incredible to know other parents share some of our same issues.



DW_a_mom
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,683
Location: Northern California

20 Jan 2010, 10:48 pm

Ericka wrote:
I wonder if there are a lot of people with PDD that never move away from home and get a job. I'm hoping with time she will keep progressing!!


I've been on this site quite a while and, yes, there are a lot of adults on the spectrum that never move away from home and / or never get a job. There can be many reasons for it, but you are nowhere near having to accept that as your daughter's fate. Be ready for the possibility, but work with her for a different future.

I think one thing I've taken from some of the adults is to not give up, and not assume. They need support, and they may need it for a long time. Think of your daughter as on a different path to growing up than most kids, but it is still a path. It has unique twists and turns and is long and slow. That is something you need to know - many AS on this site who are successful as adults took a longer time of it, getting through school and into life. Allow for that - her own time and her own way.

Many of the adults will also tell you that your daughter's special interests are the path to her future, so nurture them. Look for ways to turn those interests into a career. She'll probably need your help with that, as well. We have a professional artist at this site who lives out in the way off, and rarely sees anyone else, but her paintings sell and she can do it. There are so many roads, but they have to be found.

Never give up hope, and never lose patience. Don't push, but do support and nudge when necessary.

Does that make sense?


_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).


adora
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2010
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 153
Location: The Flatlands of North Carolina

20 Jan 2010, 11:52 pm

Have you thought of AHS (Adult High School).
There she can work at her own pace, on the subjects she chooses (given its one of the requirements she needs to graduate), and might get to be able to take a science that doesn't cover evolution (like earth, natural, marine, etc..)



Ericka
Butterfly
Butterfly

User avatar

Joined: 3 Sep 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 11
Location: U.S.A.

21 Jan 2010, 11:23 am

DW~ Thanks for your message. We definately will never give up on her! She does have so much to offer..... I hope with our support she will be able to do more as she gets older. I sure wish other people didn't assume things about her!

Adora~ I have not heard of Adult High School. She took Earth Science last year. To graduate the counselor said she needs Biology this year, and won't need any Science next year. I am going to call the rep for her H.S. this morning, and see if there is any way she can take another kind. She already did 1st semester and passed. I have no idea what they will tell me. I told my daughter that I will help her do 2nd semester, but she says she just can't do it.



adora
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2010
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 153
Location: The Flatlands of North Carolina

21 Jan 2010, 6:29 pm

Adult High School is done at the local community college just like the GED program.
The rules there are slightly different than normal HS.
In regular HS, I would have had to take geometry to graduate, in the AHS program they said I could take consumer math instead.
They would (most likely) let her take a science that she hasn't had yet.



Callista
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Feb 2006
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 10,775
Location: Ohio, USA

21 Jan 2010, 7:51 pm

Many religious people agree that evolution is a valid, reasonable theory. My personal opinion is that God created the universe, touching off the Big Bang in such a way that the development of intelligent life that could come to know Him was inevitable. But I really understand if she doesn't, for religious reasons, want to learn about evolution. It should be her right to make that choice. This is high school; she's not in training to become a professional biologist, and it won't affect her education greatly to skip this small part of it. I'm not saying that you can let her off studying biology altogether; but surely there is an elective class that she might be able to take instead, somewhere around the same field? Having the requirements adjusted for her shouldn't be the end of the world if she already has an IEP.


_________________
Reports from a Resident Alien:
http://chaoticidealism.livejournal.com

Autism Memorial:
http://autism-memorial.livejournal.com


Tracker
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 933
Location: Behind your mineral line

23 Jan 2010, 3:07 am

Hello. I would have replied earlier, but my computer and I have been at war recently. Luckily I think I have found the problem, so my computer is working again.

For starters, evolution and religion are not incompatible. Micro-evolution (the slow change in a species over time due to environmental influences) is entirely reasonable, and observable. Just look at all the various breeds of dogs and how they have been brought about via breeding similar traits. It is also a useful, and I would think interesting series to learn about as it helps to explain genetics, and the propagation of traits over generations.

Macro-evolution (the theory that all things and all creatures developed from a single cell that was created in a primordial soup without any exterior interference) is really BS. It has so many holes in it that you could use it as a soup strainer. It angers me that this theory is taught as fact to public school students. And keep in mind that my annoyance is not due to the fact that I am a christian, but the fact that I am a man of science. This theory is so horribly and demonstratively debunked, yet still gets taught as fact that we might as well still teach people that all things are made from the 4 elements of fire, wind, earth, and water.

As for your daughter taking a break from school, it really might not be that bad of a thing. I mean, the worst that could happen is that she doesn't finish this semester. She would take the rest of the semester off, and then summer break to. And then perhaps next year in the fall semester she can resume where she left off. And horror of horrors, she will graduate 4 months later then if she just kept at it. I know a friend who had a major tragedy in the family, and lost a semester of school because of it. He got an Incomplete for that semester, then resumed where he left off the next semester. Its not the end of the world.

It sounds to me what your daughter needs more then anything else is to develop a 'thick skin' regarding dealing with other people and overcoming her inner doubt and social anxiety. Forcing her to take some classes now that she doesn't really need to know about wont help her in the long run. I personally found the evolution lectures interesting, but I never actually used the material in adult life. My knowledge has been enjoyable for me, but is by no means a requirement to successful functioning. However, learning to deal with my emotions and have an effective way of dealing with the world is the MOST!! !! !(capitalized for emphasis) important thing that I have learned. In this instance, I would say pick your battles. Are you really interested in your daughter completing a high school diploma as soon as possible, so she can learn useless things. Or are you willing to wait a few more months and help her pull herself together before she has a mental breakdown?



Ericka
Butterfly
Butterfly

User avatar

Joined: 3 Sep 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 11
Location: U.S.A.

25 Jan 2010, 11:21 am

Tracker~ Thanks for your comments. YES, she really does need to develop a thicker skin with people, and with the way she looks at her own self! Both of my kids are extremely sensitive. Always have been. Hopefully will toughen up with age and different experiences.
It doesn't matter to me if my daughter graduates late. She is a junoir and 16, so really she would graduate at 17 now, she would still be "on-time" if she took a semester off. The problem is she is doing a homebound program that lost it's funding. She can finish this semester at no cost to us. If she takes off... we lose that. Already we will have to pay $2600 for her to finish next year. I have been talking with her about it. I am willing to help her with her science class. I just am really hoping that this will work out!! !



Climber
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 2 Sep 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 70

27 Jan 2010, 11:00 am

Tracker wrote:
Macro-evolution (the theory that all things and all creatures developed from a single cell that was created in a primordial soup without any exterior interference) is really BS. It has so many holes in it that you could use it as a soup strainer.


Tracker - as another man of science, I have to respectfully disagree. However, that is not what this thread is about.

My AS son was homeschooled, so his only option for a "recognized" diploma was to get his GED. It is not regarded as well as a high school diploma. (That is an erroneous perception, by the way.) He is now attending community college and had no issues being accepted. I might add, he is doing well (knock on wood). He is planning to do two years of community college and then transfer to a four-year institution. There is a specific program just for this.

He has not taken the Scholastic Aptitude Test, and that is the real measure for college admission, without the above two years.

If your daughter does not plan to attend college, I would allow her to go the GED route. Simply because in my experience (and I'm just one person), fighting anxieties head on is a losing battle.



PunkyKat
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 May 2008
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,492
Location: Kalahari Desert

02 Feb 2010, 3:41 pm

Homeschooling is what worked for me.


_________________
I'm not weird, you're just too normal.