What helped me.

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I"ve been getting some sh*t for being a little too brutally honest in my remarks towards the complainers on this site, and I've also had people that agree with me. Here's a thread that should be favorited by every self-loathing man on this site.

I was you guys a few years ago, except maybe more fashion-conscious. However, I hated the way I looked, my hair in particular. I also would have done anything to get a girlfriend, including almost ending my life at one point (there were other issues...generic loneliness, not over the past, confusion about "Why am I like this?") The hospitalization led to the Asperger diagnosis.

Here's the short version of how I went from shy, intoverted dork to outgoing and dateable to attractive women.

- I vented to a therapist for almost a year and a half. I was Toad, only I didn't have the weight problem. But I thought no woman could ever love me, even an unattractive woman.

What helped was venting for an hour a week, and having the woman give me positive reinforcement. A therapist will listen to whatever you say, maybe give some suggestions that might be helpful, but more importantly, you'll feel good having vented, and then at least for a while you'll go home or where-ever and have a clear mind for a while.

Eventually, the prescribing doctor found the right combination of medicine, and I found myself not even needing the therapy appointments anymore and feeling like "I can do this on my own." I genuinely stopped giving a crap about what others thought about me, random strangers anyway, and just started wearing what I always felt like wearing. I started dressing even better than I had, and I got haircuts more frequently. My self-esteem went up.

I dated the girl I talked about, and went on a few other dates...which gave me the confidence "Ok, this proves that I can attract a good looking woman, with my physical appearance nonetheless." I also learned that I wasn't as needy as I thought, and that since I was happier, I could be happy single or not single, that a woman in my life was just a bonus.

I know this isn't what you want to hear, and you want the magic formula to get some girlfriend that is obsessed with you, but trust me, when you're happier, you won't be as desperate.

That's exactly what happened to me, and I do mean exactly. I, too, attempted suicide, for the same reason, was hospitalized, and then diagnosed with AS. I was 15. I may have been diagnosed a lot earlier (when I was about 5, they wanted to test me for "slight autism," but my mom was against that, so it never happened, although I did go to a special ed. preschool), but still, the diagnosis helped me to understand myself a lot better.

Guys, it sounds like therange is in the same boat I was (and in some ways, still am) in. If he can do it, any of you guys can, too. Read his post thoroughly, evaluate it honestly, and follow his suggestions. No offense, but dismissing it outright and whining, without even trying it first, will not solve anything, and in fact, it's this very attitude that keeps a lot of us from getting where we want to be.

That's just my two cents.

IMO this is the critical part. The issue at hand is much bigger than "dating" itself, and that seems to get overlooked or missed entirely time and time again.

When I'm happy (which, relatively speaking, I currently am) I am able to realize that there is plenty of love in my life, to the point where it is meaningless to focus much energy into pursuing it from others yet "undiscovered".

And my general "situation" is very different from range's. I have little interest in pursuing people in the "dating" sense. All the "luck" I ever had in my life I chalk up to just that--luck. I'm out and about enough (and this too, as range, and I, and many others have said many times before, is critical) that occasionally things just fall into place. Lately this has resulted in several solid friendships and a small handful of random hook ups. If it doesn't naturally turn into anything else, to me it seems that all the pieces required for doing so are not in place.

What the guys on here don't realize is that in their current emotional state, they aren't going to attract any woman, let alone the type of woman they want to attract. It's not that women don't like nice guys, women don't like self-loathing, low in confidence, socially inept guys (and I don't mean socially inept as in aspie, I mean socially inept as in lacking any social skills whatsover or ability to be your normal self around a woman.) Women like guys that are comfortable in their own skin, and can carry a conversation. I realize it sounds hard, but I was just bad as some of the guys on here sound just a few years ago.

No doubt. And it goes both ways; generally dudes don't like women who are self-loathing, socially inept, etc either. I know I don't. I mean I could be (and I am) friends with women who display these characteristics to a degree; in that context it's of little consequence. But would I date them? No chance. More trouble than it's worth.

I also think the reason some guys on here don't really know what they want in a woman is because they don't really know themselves. When you're depressed, your judgment is flawed, so you may think you want one thing when you really don't.

I think a lot of the moaners could get a lot out of this.

Its just such a damn shame that they never want to listen to replies that would actually help them.

Then we get another 10 duplicate threads. I like to help people, but not when they dig their heels into the sand and wont make an effort to help themelves, which is what at least 3 regulars (I won't name) seem to do.

I have no idea how I missed that the first time I read your post. At least for me, that is the most fundamental and significant issue that has been raised yet in this thread.

For me (and I would imagine for some others on here as well) successfully negotiating social situations, as well as the inner workings of my own mind, is contingent on my being able to intellectualize what is occurring. That requires me to be as objective as humanly possible.

When I get depressed I lose my objectivity. At that point I not only can no longer negotiate these things, but I fully realize that I cannot and fully understand why; having that knowledge makes me further frustrated that I cannot fix the problem despite my understanding of it, and it becomes a circular downward spiral clusterf**k with no end in sight.

From where I stand now I cannot imagine adding the burdens that come along with pursuing a significant other into all of that, but in reality there have probably been times when I was depressed that that seemed perfectly reasonable to me.

QFT

Bumping up. I'd hate to see this inspiring post sink. You have gotten flak for giving flak but I see you as being something like an ex-smoker. Ex-smokers will look with dismay at all the hacking, wheezing smokers who say "I tried to quit and I can't". The ex-smoker shakes his finger at them and also encourages them saying "It's really hard but also really worth it". You and billsmithglendale have written parallel posts that touch on similar themes and they are both important posts.

This is golden.

About a month ago I got a cold hard slap in the face. I'd been using AS as the reason why I didn't have a gf and I was loathing. I was hiding behind multiple problems I thought I had. Finnally I decided to read the alpha males guide at the top. Reading it was the sort of awakening I needed. I read the whole thing twice. It started a chain reaction. I began to read others. I read up on anything I felt I was lacking in. Now I am conquering my problems one by one and my confidence and self esteem are building.

I just had to realise what works and adapt to it.

Short answer: Learn to be happy.

If you can't be happy by yourself, you're probably going to make someone else unhappy with you in a relationship.

It doesn't require therapy, nor does it require drugs. Though therapy and drugs may be stepping stones in the right direction. I really hesitate to suggest therapy and drugs due to their high cost and potential long term negative consequences.

Many paths lead to the top of the mountain, and there is no one path which suits everyone. The ideal way is to recognize you want to reach the top and choose the path most suited towards you (or vice versa).

KenM: read this. Live this.

I'm trying to live this... it's just incredibly hard to find a therapist in my area that will work with my family's health insurance plan. My ex-girlfriend has actually been quite helpful as of late: because it turned out that we both have feelings for each other (it's just that a relationship didn't, and probably wouldn't, work out), she's been really supportive of me, and that has helped my confidence quite a bit in the past couple of weeks or so. But the thing that still seems impossible is to be happy just for the hell of it. I can't just *will* myself to be happy, especially when all these circumstances of my life are so sad. I need a reason to be happy. Sure, there are reasons for me to be thankful, as I have a roof over my head, food on the table, and I'm working through a college degree, but I still feel emotionally hollow...

About three years ago, when I was by far the most depressed I've ever been, I read an article about "happiness" that broke it down in a way that really made sense, one that I had never considered before. The argument was that it is fundamentally unhealthy to spend an excess of time experiencing and/or directly pursuing outright, carefree happiness, because if you spend an excess of time in this "happy place", when the harsh realities of adult life do come crashing down on you (which inevitably they will), you will not be sufficiently equipped to deal with them.

The article suggested that the optimal amount of your time spent in that "happy place" is about 10%. And you have a choice in how to spend the other 90% (or whatever amount of time that you are fixated in the "real world" so to speak). You can a.) be miserable; or b.) constantly fight and scrap in an effort to grow and better yourself, and maintain your balance and sanity.

And honestly I think this line of reasoning applies to relationships as well. Once the initial period of "infatuation" is over (which, in my experience, lasts 6-8 months at most), most of what a relationship is is a constant struggle for balance; for the parties involved, this can result in either (as in life) a.) misery; or b.) the development of incredible strength and personal and mutual growth.

This angle didn't change my life immediately or anything, but to this day it's always present in the back of my mind when trying to navigate and make sense of happiness and rough times alike.

The only thing I am unhappy with in my life is not having a sig other. The fact that I have pretty much been rejected all my life in this area has made me very bitter and unhappy about it. It is hard to stay happy, upbeat and confedent about going out with someone when every time you ask someone out they say no. Whats the point of trying if I know I will be rejected all the time? I have been trying for over 20 years and failing. I have experence at failing at this. Its all I know. Anyone else that have known over 20 years of recjection, trying to change your approch, adapting, and still getting rejected no matter what will feel the same way.

In other words, I have tryed all paths up the mountain and I have been blocked at every point. So only thing left is not to try to get up the mountain if you know you will fail.