Why does Israel matter to the United States?

Page 3 of 4 [ 57 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

MissConstrue
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 17,052
Location: MO

01 Feb 2010, 9:35 pm

jc6chan wrote:

MissConstrue wrote:

I mostly don't support Israel especially the zionists and the fact that they've been given nukes to use and abuse just like the U.S.

The Israelis never used their nukes against any human population. So I don't know how you could say they are "abusing" the nukes.

Are you serious? :roll:

Why don't you read up about how many civilians (collateral damage) were killed in the gaza strip.

_________________
I live as I choose or I will not live at all.
~Delores O’Riordan

Sand
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 98
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

01 Feb 2010, 10:03 pm

jc6chan wrote:

MissConstrue wrote:

I mostly don't support Israel especially the zionists and the fact that they've been given nukes to use and abuse just like the U.S.

The Israelis never used their nukes against any human population. So I don't know how you could say they are "abusing" the nukes.

It depends upon what you mean by "using nuclear weapons". To merely have them is to use them whether they are sent off to massacre hundreds of thousands of people in so-called collateral damage or not.

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 87
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

01 Feb 2010, 11:37 pm

MissConstrue wrote:

Are you serious? :roll:

Why don't you read up about how many civilians (collateral damage) were killed in the gaza strip.

Done with conventional (non-nuclear) weapons.

ruveyn

MissConstrue
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 17,052
Location: MO

02 Feb 2010, 12:07 am

ruveyn wrote:

MissConstrue wrote:

Are you serious? :roll:

Why don't you read up about how many civilians (collateral damage) were killed in the gaza strip.

Done with conventional (non-nuclear) weapons.

ruveyn

What difference does it make considering the lives that were lost?

Guess not much to some people apparently...

_________________
I live as I choose or I will not live at all.
~Delores O’Riordan

sartresue
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Age: 69
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,313
Location: The Castle of Shock and Awe-tism

02 Feb 2010, 10:29 am

MissConstrue wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

MissConstrue wrote:

Are you serious? :roll:

Why don't you read up about how many civilians (collateral damage) were killed in the gaza strip.

Done with conventional (non-nuclear) weapons.

ruveyn

What difference does it make considering the lives that were lost?

Guess not much to some people apparently...

Does not follow from the premises topic

Non sequitur, Missconstrue

I have found that any discussion of Israel always retruns to the weapons and bombings of the Palestinians. Both sides do this. Other countries have done this to Israel.

Hostilities amongst all nations in the Middle East must stop if there is to be one seed of peace to sow there.

_________________
Radiant Aspergian
Awe-Tistic Whirlwind

Phuture Phounder of the Philosophy Phactory

NOT a believer of Mystic Woo-Woo

codarac
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Oct 2006
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 780
Location: UK

07 Feb 2010, 6:38 pm

Why does Israel matter to the US? Let's hear what Obama has to say.
Anyone who said Obama would struggle without a teleprompter, watch this and witness a true maestro at work.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npjKObsTAng&feature=PlayList&p=5D31A52416830612&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=84[/youtube]

xenon13
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,638

08 Feb 2010, 2:23 am

Many Americans worship Israel. They believe that God operates through Israel and thus the enemies that Israel creates are pawns of Satan. They also believe that God judges people and nations based on their attitudes towards Israel. They are told that if the United States serves Israel, God will reward the United States for that. Senator Inhofe of Oklahoma, for example, told the people in 2001 that September 11th was the result of being mean to Israel - five billion dollars of tribute clearly not being sufficiently lavish devotion. He was re-elected in 2002 so the voters didn't seem to mind such kookery. The media of course did not like to cover this story, preferring to pile on Cynthia McKinney whose questions about September 11th were clearly forbidden, unlike blaming it on insufficient devotion to Israel, a blame America theory that is acceptable in mainstream America.

Wombat
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 7 Oct 2006
Age: 75
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,051

08 Feb 2010, 3:43 am

Why does America support Israel? Why not Bolivia or Tibet or New Zealand or Mongolia or Norway?

Israel is our "ally". Really? Are Egypt or Lebanon somehow our "enemies"?

Are we the "enemy" of countries like Saudi Arabia who sell us oil?

So what has Israel done for US lately except for costing billions of dollars, The Lavon Affair, and the USS Liberty?

Master_Pedant
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,903

08 Feb 2010, 3:54 am

sartresue wrote:

(S)mattering of support topic

The US has fiancially/militaristically supported many regimes, many that are now or have been politically corrupt. Economic plans must be in place, to ensure that money is used to help the people, not to bolster criminal governments.

Right now the spotlight is on the world helping Haiti, and this is what support should consist of--developing the infrastructure to ensure that citizenry can support themselves in future. (Israel has been a different case because other nations are so hostile to her existence.)

Instead of focussing on hostilities, if countries that are suffering economically like Palestine, Afganistan and Pakistan (and some African nations) would concern themselves with rebuilding what they have, like Haiti will be doing, then this is half the problem solved. Get the citizenry busy with economic development and keep the politics out--for now.

When all you construct is bulldozed, that tends to be tricky.

wesmontfan
Snowy Owl

Joined: 29 Nov 2009
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 144
Location: Near Washington DC

13 Feb 2010, 6:42 am

amazon_television wrote:

racooneyes wrote:

It's strategic position. Look on a map, it's surrounded by Americas supposed enemies and has a nice big coastline. It's right smack bang in the middle of what is known as The Old World, look at a map and you'll see Europe, The Mediteranian, Africa, the Caucuses (leading to Russia), the Middle East (leading to the Far East) are like spokes and Israel is the hub. Very important place to be.

As others have stated, there are many reasons, but as far as I'm concerned this is the only "good" one there is.

That explains why were involved in the mideast, but not why we support Israel.
If the US government were out to control the hub of the World why wouldnt it oppose Zionism and sponsor the creation of a pro-American Arab Palestinian State in Israel's place? That would galvanize the Islamic world for us instead of against us, and make life easier for US oil companies.

Some praise our support of Israel because it "advances our interests" and others condemen it because "it advances the US domination of the Middle East". Niether POV makes any sense because supporting Israel clealy works against both of those ends.

We ARE in bed with Saudi's to get thier oil and control the area. But our support of Israel is mainly out of sentiment and ideology- the postwar sympathy for the jews in needing a homeland after the holocaust, the fact they are the only democracy in the area, and the fact that they are alot like us. During the cold war they were our proxy in opposing the soviet union's influence in the mideast- so there was that geopolitical motive for a few decades- but not now.
Yes, and there are the American apocolyptic evangelicals, but they dont dictate our foriegn policy, and they are canceled out by the Israel hating Pat Buchanans and Farakhans in America.

Are the above reasons we support them "good" reasons?
Perhaps.

If the Arab world could be persuaded that Israel was more valuable to it alive than dead ( as a trading partner and a dynamic force for develpment) there might be hope for peace.

Last edited by wesmontfan on 13 Feb 2010, 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NeantHumain
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 24 Jun 2004
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,837
Location: St. Louis, Missouri

13 Feb 2010, 11:01 am

There is a sizable Jewish population in the United States.
Many evangelical Christians see the existence of the State of Israel as part of some divine prophesy.
Israel is considered to be one of the few democratic countries in the Middle East.
Israel is strategically located near Arab countries rich in oil reserves.

Sand
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 98
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

13 Feb 2010, 11:38 am

NeantHumain wrote:

There is a sizable Jewish population in the United States.
Many evangelical Christians see the existence of the State of Israel as part of some divine prophesy.
Israel is considered to be one of the few democratic countries in the Middle East.
Israel is strategically located near Arab countries rich in oil reserves.

Although Israel is an openly racist state with regular comments by its leaders of exiling all Arabs who originally inhabited the area I suppose the USA that did in the past also officially in many states treated black people the same way and was still considered a democracy can accept that type of behavior. But the last item is interesting. Does that mean the USA is considering a military takeover of all the Middle East oil?

NeantHumain
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 24 Jun 2004
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,837
Location: St. Louis, Missouri

13 Feb 2010, 11:55 am

Sand wrote:

We're already in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The perception is that Israel is a democracy even if they discriminate heavily against Arabs and Muslims.

Shiznown
Snowy Owl

Joined: 21 Dec 2009
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 147

13 Feb 2010, 6:19 pm

Israel runs the US, didn't you know? Search "Zionist" and "synagogue of Satan"

DrizzleMan
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 887

14 Feb 2010, 7:07 am

Satan already has a church, I suppose he deserves a mosque and a synagogue too.

_________________
The plural of platypus.

Omerik
Velociraptor

Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 456

17 Feb 2010, 7:29 am

Sand wrote:

Although there is an element of manifest destiny in the acceptance of Israel as a legitimate state in the old Jewish sense of having been especially chosen by God, probably much of the main substance of much of the support is derived from the abysmally horrible insane persecution of the Jews by the Nazis and the resulting world guilt and acceptance that there should be adequate compensation. In general the Jews of the world have demonstrated great intellectual capacity and a cohesive cultural tradition that is somewhat absent from the other groups that were also frightfully persecuted by the Nazis such as the gypsies and the homosexuals. The Nazis, of course, merely carried forward and intensified the centuries old traditions of Jewish persecution that formed part of the doctrines of the Christian Catholic Church so there is much guilt well distributed. The Israelis, as distinct from all Jews in general, have used this guilt as a cultural weapon continuously and with great success to disparage the efforts of the Palestinians to defend themselves and protest at the thievery and open brutality of the Israeli government is taking over the land area claimed by Israel. I do not defend the random killings by the Muslim suicide bombers but their impact is negligible as compared to the official Israeli brutality of the Israeli government against mostly innocent and relatively defenseless Palestinians with modern aggressive weaponry.

Of course this is only one element in the conflict and there are economic and political policies also in he mix which use the cultural element to merely re-enforce their underlying policies.

Seriously, people here have no idea what they're talking about.
Zionism began before the holocaust, as a secular movement, sick of racism. They weren't even sure what land to incorporate, and Herzl himself first proposed that all Jews in Europe baptise themselves to stop this BS.
I have a lot of criticism on Zionism myself, trust me, I just don't have the time to write it all right now.
But for short - Zionism is secular, and a response to pre-War antisemitism. Both my grandparents were sent to Israel by their parents, because they were afraid of Hitler - before anything happens.
As for the "thievery", if you mean the whole idea of settling here - well, the Jews accepted the partition plan. The Palestinians didn't. That's why the war started, that's why got more land than offered by the UN. Now, with all do respect, some Palestinian leaders themselves admitted that the Zionists invented the nationality "Palestinian". They were just arabs, with no national sense they way we did. It's not wrong, it's even better, just that they were ruled by other nations.

(And no, that's not excuse for what's being done today. Just a bit more historical accuracy please)

Sand wrote:

NeantHumain wrote:

There is a sizable Jewish population in the United States.
Many evangelical Christians see the existence of the State of Israel as part of some divine prophesy.
Israel is considered to be one of the few democratic countries in the Middle East.
Israel is strategically located near Arab countries rich in oil reserves.

I'm glad if you can show me which leaders "regularly" speak about exiling anyone.
If you're talking about the descendants of people who fled the Israeli territory - as an Anarchist, I think they can live wherever they want. However, not all Jews who fled Europe get their citizenship back. Why don't you speak against them?

That being said, trust me that my government's actions bother me more than they bother you.
Still, at least blame them over correct things.

Page 3 of 4 [ 57 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next

Jump to:

Why does Israel matter to the United States? Post Reply New Topic

Why does Israel matter to the United States?