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Should I wait and see what happens, or move on and look for someone else?
Wait! 17%  17%  [ 3 ]
Move on! 56%  56%  [ 10 ]
Other (please specify)! 11%  11%  [ 2 ]
No opinion! 17%  17%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 18

MJackson
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01 Feb 2010, 12:25 am

If she said she just wanted to be friends then I would just stop talking to her completely. your goal is to get a gf, and u cant get a gf just being friends with her, so move on to the next girl, because all you're doing is wasting your time with her. There's no reason to be friends with the opposite sex, that's what we have our same sex friends for. I may sound silly to some of you, but if you really think about it, you know I'm telling the truth. So just move on man.



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01 Feb 2010, 1:39 am

MJackson wrote:
If she said she just wanted to be friends then I would just stop talking to her completely. your goal is to get a gf, and u cant get a gf just being friends with her, so move on to the next girl, because all you're doing is wasting your time with her. There's no reason to be friends with the opposite sex, that's what we have our same sex friends for. I may sound silly to some of you, but if you really think about it, you know I'm telling the truth. So just move on man.


The opposite sex are people too, not just something to root! Why shouldn't men and women be friends?

TheMinnesotaIceman wrote:
I'm not interested in dating others. She means a lot to me.


In that case you need physical distance, and enough of it for you o get over her and try and meet others. You can get to the point where you still talk occasionally but are distanced enough to be able to date others.

MJackson wrote:
Why bother asking what she doesn't like about him? He can't change it anyways, and shouldn't.


Maybe not, but at least it will give him an idea about what this woman likes. Although I wouldn't reccomend doing it, its hard not knowing.



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01 Feb 2010, 2:02 am

Roman wrote:
I agree. Didn't you say she was goign to come to your place today?


She was supposed to, but there was a change of plan. She'll either visit sometime this week or next weekend.



TheMinnesotaIceman
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01 Feb 2010, 2:05 am

MJackson wrote:
If she said she just wanted to be friends then I would just stop talking to her completely. your goal is to get a gf, and u cant get a gf just being friends with her, so move on to the next girl, because all you're doing is wasting your time with her. There's no reason to be friends with the opposite sex, that's what we have our same sex friends for. I may sound silly to some of you, but if you really think about it, you know I'm telling the truth. So just move on man.


I don't mind being friends with her; she really is a great friend. I would prefer a romantic relationship, but I would rather have her as a friend than not have any kind of relationship with her at all.



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01 Feb 2010, 2:44 am

Iceman,

I figure it's quite possible that for the future you can still get some useful info from her if you ask for indirect stuff... like for example, you could ask her for her opinions on how to make you more attractive to women in general. If you switch the focus off of her, and instead onto other people or other things, it will help take the load of responsibility off her, and will enable her to be more comfortable talking to you more honestly about whatever you ask her about. It would also help preserve your friendship, which is important to you. Who knows, she could eventually develop feelings for you eventually, after making changes on your own accord, but that development is not something I would count on. This would only happen if you don't ask directly. Asking her indirect stuff will also allow you to avoid looking like "the guy who couldn't take no for an answer", which only ends well in the movies... in reality, this can be perceived as stalkerish behavior. :?

It's late for me, so I'll have to call it a night. Good luck!! 8)


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Roman
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01 Feb 2010, 11:29 am

MJackson wrote:
Roman wrote:
I think you should ask her what it is that she doesn't like about you, and then ask her why does she assume you can't change it. For example, due to your Asperger you might not know the rules of the game, so you might have done something wrong even though you could do better if only you knew. So why can't she give you a chance to do just that?

One thing that amaises me is how come no one ever considers THIS conversation an option? It is very self-defeating when you act as if you "accept" her decision (whether you do or not) because your accepting it implies that you agree with her. Then you hope that may be something might develop. In other words, while you agree with her in all the shortcommings she perceives you to have (while you don't even know what they are!) you are hoping that she will "have mercy" on you and eventually change her mind out of mercy. Well just think about it: whwat does your interaction with her will do to your self esteem throughout all this time you are waiting for that?

Well, may be she doesn't have to do anything out of mercy. May be she is simply wrong in the shortcommings she thinks you have. But you won't ever find that out unless you discuss it with her.


Why bother asking what she doesn't like about him? He can't change it anyways, and shouldn't.


He doesn't know whether he can change it or not, until he hears what it is. With Asperger syndrome it is quite common not to know "the rules of the game", in which case he might be perfectly capable of playing well if only he knew what was expected. Of course, that doesn't apply to everything. If I am told I am expected to lift 300 pounds I won't be able to do it, no matter how well I am aware of that expectation. But again, he doesn't know which category the expectations of this given girl fall into, until he asks.



Roman
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01 Feb 2010, 11:48 am

makuranososhi wrote:
Roman wrote:
makuranososhi wrote:
Roman, a request: please stay on the original topic. If you wish to talk about your relationships, it would be appropriate to discuss them in the threads you have already created on the subject. Understand that I am not asking you that you not share your experiences, but the sheer verbosity here is threatening to detail the OP's discussion.


M.


The reason I brought up my own relationship is because I wanted to show that there is a real life example where what I said actually worked.


1) The two situations are different;


I never said they are the same. After all, I neither met OP nor his friend so I am not in a position to claim that his friend is similar to Jennifer. However, what I do say is that since it worked at least in one case (i.e. with Jennifer) why not try and see if it works with his friend. I do see your point that he might just create animosity by doing that. But that is why it is important he does it face to face, where he is able to stop at any point he sees her frustration, thus staying in a "safe" territory.

makuranososhi wrote:
2) I don't see evidence of your method 'working' in what you describe.


Well, answering this point is up to analyzing my situation, which is precisely why I am doing it. I am not trying to change a topic from him onto me. As you said, I have my own posts to talk about me. I simply am using my situation in order to adress the very thing you just brought up: whether or not this method works.

makuranososhi wrote:
Again, I'm not discouraging sharing relevant points - but the sheer verbosity of your posts overwhelm the rest of the dialogue here.


So will it help if I continue responding, but simply cut it down to the length of the average response by other ppl?

makuranososhi wrote:
You could achieve the same effect by linking to your prior threads with the same content, as a possible alternative.


That is true I had my own thread where I talked about Jennifer. But in that thread I was focused on why we broke up two years down the road, while in this thread I would like to point out how something worked really well during first half a year. Of course, I might make a response in my own thread where I switch from former to latter. But then posting a link to that and asking ppl to ignore original post (and, in fact, most of the thread as well) and scroll down to read a certain reponse I made to myself, will only make it confusing.



Last edited by Roman on 01 Feb 2010, 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Roman
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01 Feb 2010, 11:56 am

Stinkypuppy wrote:
(sorry mak, I'll keep this short and try to keep it on-topic as much as possible :mrgreen:)

Roman: When I said that a relationship would become "different", what I meant specifically was that the relationship would begin to take on aspects of a logical relationship. My posts had been based on the assumption that you and your ex had a romantic relationship, but your description of it in your most recent response to my post doesn't really make it sound like a romantic one... it sounds more like a logical relationship, the mechanics of which are far different. While logical and romantic aspects can co-exist in one relationship (and such is the case in the vast majority, if not all long-term relationships), it's quite hard for me to spot the romance in your former relationship altogether. :? You were able to get as far as you did because it was a logical relationship at the start. It looked like Jennifer wanted it to become romantic, but it doesn't really seem as though it ever got that far.


It did. She says she fell in love with me when I was taking care of her while she was sick. Besides, we got engaged a year into relationship.

Stinkypuppy wrote:
Incidents like the dance class example you gave seem to point in the direction that romance was not there at that moment, as she was disappointed that you did not enjoy spending time with her. Her constant criticism of you was an attempt to consciously change you so that her needs would be satisfied. Thus it begs the question of whether you ever had a romantic relationship, per se, with her at all.


In these situations she was the one who wanted romanse and I was the one who didn't. So in terms of getting her to want it, I got that! As far as my own disinterest, that is a different issue: I would have broken up with her, but I didn't because I felt sorry that she was sick. Since that aspect probably doesn't apply to OP and his friend, we can just say he will break up with her the moment he will stop liking it. So our goal right now is to get her to want it, since he stated very clearly that at least right now he does want to be with her. Then, when/if his desires change, he can deal with it then.



BetsyRath
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01 Feb 2010, 12:26 pm

Hi. There are a lot of responses here and I tried to wade through, but I'm not a physicist so I was also at a disadvantage (joking).

You are trying to weight the risks and benefits of a situation without all the information. Some of the information is yet to be determined, and some of the information is just human dynamic and therefore difficult to ever gauge.

Mr. Rath and I started out as friends and I can tell you: I did NOT see him as dating material. I was uncomfortable the first time he came even to fix a computer. He was very stiff around me, and formal which made it hard for me to be at ease. I experienced his "delivery" in communication as very rude. I had known him online for many years (since I was in my 20s!) and over those years he had driven me to tears on several occasions with his bluntly stated opinions, which I interpreted as extremely misogynistic. He was also a political conservative who voted for Reagan twice!! ! which was maddening for me.

The first time we spent alone together when he came to look at my computer problem, I *still* felt all of these things a little. But it had eased a bit too, as we were older and more friends in email now than political adversaries. But over the next few visits (I had lost all my data and he had to run some recovery program), something changed. He was so gentle, and funny, and there were other things too about him. He smelled good. He kneeled down and spoke to my children so kindly. He was predictable and steady, and if he made a promise, he kept it.

I think looking back: If he'd pursued me, I would have shut him out. It scares me to think about that. It was a fragile thing, my attraction to him, in the beginning. Because he was SO different from anyone I'd dated, and so quirky. But he did not pursue me - he was unavailable to me lots of the time, because he was engaged in his own hobbies and activities.

It's not a puzzle you can solve, Minnesota. You will have to just plow forward with it and come up with a strategy for engaging her on a different level. (I do NOT recommend drilling her verbally for "why you aren't boyfriend material") If you do this, there is a chance you might be rewarded for it. But also - - there's a real chance it won't develop chemistry for her and that will no doubt be disappointing and painful for you.

It doesn't come with guarantees, and even if you find yourself IN love which is reciprocated - there are no guarantees. A person can leave, a person could fall out of love with you - a person can step in front of a bus and exit your life instantly.

Good luck. You seem like a nice guy, I hope it works out for you.


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01 Feb 2010, 12:43 pm

^^ I LOVE this story! Thank you for sharing. And good point about the pushing. Important for our OP to consider.

I do like Stinkypuppy's indirect approach, above. Friends do ask friends things like, "what would make me more attractive to women," and the answers can give you a little insight into how your friend thinks. She won't always think like "most women," but there can be clues in how she phrases things, as well ("most women," v. "some women," v. "I").

Patience is a good thing.


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01 Feb 2010, 12:44 pm

Roman wrote:
She says she fell in love with me when I was taking care of her while she was sick. Besides, we got engaged a year into relationship.

In these situations she was the one who wanted romanse and I was the one who didn't. So in terms of getting her to want it, I got that! As far as my own disinterest, that is a different issue: I would have broken up with her, but I didn't because I felt sorry that she was sick. Since that aspect probably doesn't apply to OP and his friend, we can just say he will break up with her the moment he will stop liking it. So our goal right now is to get her to want it, since he stated very clearly that at least right now he does want to be with her. Then, when/if his desires change, he can deal with it then.

Yeah, see... when people typically talk about a romance, they mean it in both directions: she would have romantic feelings for you, and you would have romantic feelings for her. Since you admit that didn't happen, you can't call your relationship a romance. Her romantic feelings for you remained unrequited. Moreover, a logical relationship doesn't mean that you can't get engaged or married. Arranged marriages start out as logical relationships, and people in that are obviously married.

So based purely on everything you have admitted about your previous relationship, you didn't actually have a romance. Just half of it. Thus you can't claim that your logic sustained a romantic relationship, because it definitely didn't. You just think it did. While in microcosm all of your advice so far is perfectly good and accurate for a logic relationship, as long as Iceman wants to initiate a romantic relationship, as he says he does, your logic suggestions won't work.

BetsyRath wrote:
Hi. There are a lot of responses here and I tried to wade through, but I'm not a physicist so I was also at a disadvantage (joking).

sorry! :lol: Definitely all good points in your post, though. :) and Thanks mak for the compliment earlier. :)


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Roman
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01 Feb 2010, 1:02 pm

Stinkypuppy wrote:
Roman wrote:
She says she fell in love with me when I was taking care of her while she was sick. Besides, we got engaged a year into relationship.

In these situations she was the one who wanted romanse and I was the one who didn't. So in terms of getting her to want it, I got that! As far as my own disinterest, that is a different issue: I would have broken up with her, but I didn't because I felt sorry that she was sick. Since that aspect probably doesn't apply to OP and his friend, we can just say he will break up with her the moment he will stop liking it. So our goal right now is to get her to want it, since he stated very clearly that at least right now he does want to be with her. Then, when/if his desires change, he can deal with it then.

Yeah, see... when people typically talk about a romance, they mean it in both directions: she would have romantic feelings for you, and you would have romantic feelings for her. Since you admit that didn't happen, you can't call your relationship a romance.


But OP does have these feelings. So in his case the only part that is missing is her feelings, not his. That is where I am not a very good example since I didn't feel anything to her to begin with; I only decided to date her because of her status as a graduate student. OP is obviously different. He obviously loves he. Thus, in his case the only missing part is her feelings towards him. Thus, if I am right that my strategy can in fact produce the latter (it did so with Jennifer) then that is all he needs.



TheMinnesotaIceman
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01 Feb 2010, 9:19 pm

Thanks again! You guys are the best.



Roman
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05 Feb 2010, 4:32 am

TheMinnesotaIceman wrote:
Roman wrote:
I agree. Didn't you say she was goign to come to your place today?


She was supposed to, but there was a change of plan. She'll either visit sometime this week or next weekend.


So since now it is a week later, have you alread seen her, or will you see her the comming weekend? What happened?



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05 Feb 2010, 4:49 am

Roman wrote:
So since now it is a week later, have you alread seen her, or will you see her the comming weekend? What happened?


Possibly this weekend, unless something comes up. She does have a life. ;)



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05 Feb 2010, 6:17 am

TheMinnesotaIceman wrote:
Roman wrote:
So since now it is a week later, have you alread seen her, or will you see her the comming weekend? What happened?


Possibly this weekend, unless something comes up. She does have a life. ;)


Since different responses were telling you to do opposite things (I was telling you to argue and others were telling you not to), what are you actually going to do? Will you try to point out to her some things she might miss about you and/or that you can change? I suggest you at least try that, and then you can stop at any moment if you see some indication of negative reaction.