Rape victim receives 101 lashes for becoming pregnant

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Raptor
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20 Feb 2010, 10:58 am

I’ve seen a lot of anger and disgust having to do with the way the Islamic faith deals heavy handedly with women as well as other issues we have with them.
Right or wrong, that’s just how they are and they cling to these values as hard as and maybe even harder than other religions and cultures cling to theirs.
We’re not going to see them change in the foreseeable future if ever.

Having recognized this we then come to the realization that we are allowing them to immigrate into many of our countries in quantity and therefore spread Islam right to our doorstep.
The Islamic communities in our country or countries grow and have the effect of change on our society as a whole. The result; we slowly become Islamitized to some degree. Our progressiveness and tolerance that some of us like to preach is now working against us.

So now they are colonizing us!

We see a few then more and more of them getting elected to offices at all levels of government where they can bring about more change in the form of law.
They become more aggressive in their quest to spread Islam and we see more and more mosques go up and other places of worship disappear as they hornswoggle us into believing their way is the only way and eventually accepting Islam.

It doesn’t matter, though, because as a whole we just don’t have the wherewithal to see what’s happening let alone the resolve to do what it takes to nip this in the bud and keep it from happening.
We’re on a slippery slope and Allah is at the bottom waiting for us.

We may as well go ahead and buy our praying rugs now and start getting used to the idea of a diet without pork.

:(



auntblabby
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20 Feb 2010, 11:19 am

just like there is a hard red and blue divide in this country, so in the larger world there is now a hard divide between liberal western society and much of islamic society. a divide between modernity and moral atavism. the past feels it has to defeat the future to eliminate it as a challenge to its primitive ways. the western world ignores this at its peril. it is truly a culture war. "east is east, west is west, never the twain shall meet."
just the same, the western world needs to start pulling out of the middle east, no matter what it takes. leave them to their own devices. [and if brazil can wean itself off of middle-eastern oil, then so can we]
and countries which are having trouble with islamic immigrants [france, the netherlands] should consider rethinking their immigration policies- i mean, if canada can limit the number of americans entering their country, then surely france can do the same with muslims.



Raptor
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20 Feb 2010, 12:06 pm

auntblabby wrote;

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just the same, the western world needs to start pulling out of the middle east, no matter what it takes. leave them to their own devices. [and if brazil can wean itself off of middle-eastern oil, then so can we]


I believe we actually have more crude oil under the US than any Arab nation.
But of course we can’t actually do anything with it lest we hurt the feelings of the coyotes, jackrabbits, and rattlesnakes that we’ll displace by erecting oil drilling rigs and refineries.
That and surely the welfare distribution empire would be at odds with having their kingdom threatened by the jobs that would be created by drilling and refining our own oil.

No, it won't happen.
We have to keep giving money to our enemies to keep everyone happy :D



Bella1
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20 Feb 2010, 9:24 pm

The anti-muslim sentiments in this thread are disheartening. It's a religion, not a personality type. Grouping everybody from one religion into a nice neat little box that says 'bad' on it is just not helpful to anyone.

I also want to point out that it's culture that dictates how women are treated. In the Christian Bible women are also considered to be beneath men, but the predominant western culture is heavily focused on equality between the sexes so Christian women generally enjoy good rights. However this is only because women in western cultures fought for these rights. If women had just accepted not being able to vote or get equal pay in the workforce, maybe the culture would not have changed. There are probably women in muslim countries who fight for equal rights, but they haven't succeeded yet.

Basically my point is that it's the country, not the religion.



Khan_Sama
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21 Feb 2010, 2:15 am

Bella1 wrote:
There are probably women in muslim countries who fight for equal rights, but they haven't succeeded yet.


Women are treated very well in countries like Turkey and Bosnia & Herezegovina, btw. ^^



ViperaAspis
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21 Feb 2010, 5:05 am

It's quite clear that Raptor and Blabby know next to nothing about Muslims or the Islamic faith.

Regardless, this is News and Current Events. While the Crusader Diaries do make for good laughs, how about you go to the PPR section and start your own thread there where you can rail all you want about religion?

Bella1 wrote:
The anti-muslim sentiments in this thread are disheartening.

Take heart! The rational people (or the ones who bothered to read the article anyway) understand that this is a small village and an extreme example. It's like judging all Christians by David Koresh and the Waco wackos. Or Jim Jones and his erstwhile "Christians" if I may cite an older referent.

The news topic has been thoroughly discussed and it's just becoming a religious debate at this point. And not even much of a debate really. Seeing this locked wouldn't hurt my feelings much :)


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21 Feb 2010, 7:14 pm

Monstrous barbarians. And yet there are "Cultural Relativists" that will defend this, and other misogynist atrocities like female genital mutilation in the name of "respecting other cultures". :roll:

Some cultures are just so evil they don;t deserve to exist.


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Odin
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21 Feb 2010, 7:24 pm

Bella1 wrote:
The anti-muslim sentiments in this thread are disheartening. It's a religion, not a personality type. Grouping everybody from one religion into a nice neat little box that says 'bad' on it is just not helpful to anyone.

I also want to point out that it's culture that dictates how women are treated. In the Christian Bible women are also considered to be beneath men, but the predominant western culture is heavily focused on equality between the sexes so Christian women generally enjoy good rights. However this is only because women in western cultures fought for these rights. If women had just accepted not being able to vote or get equal pay in the workforce, maybe the culture would not have changed. There are probably women in muslim countries who fight for equal rights, but they haven't succeeded yet.

Basically my point is that it's the country, not the religion.
The Abrahamic Religions are the greatest forces supporting Misogyny, Superstition, and general backwardness in the world today.


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Bella1
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21 Feb 2010, 8:19 pm

Odin wrote:
Bella1 wrote:
The anti-muslim sentiments in this thread are disheartening. It's a religion, not a personality type. Grouping everybody from one religion into a nice neat little box that says 'bad' on it is just not helpful to anyone.

I also want to point out that it's culture that dictates how women are treated. In the Christian Bible women are also considered to be beneath men, but the predominant western culture is heavily focused on equality between the sexes so Christian women generally enjoy good rights. However this is only because women in western cultures fought for these rights. If women had just accepted not being able to vote or get equal pay in the workforce, maybe the culture would not have changed. There are probably women in muslim countries who fight for equal rights, but they haven't succeeded yet.

Basically my point is that it's the country, not the religion.
The Abrahamic Religions are the greatest forces supporting Misogyny, Superstition, and general backwardness in the world today.



There are people who use religion as an excuse for beliefs that they want to justify to themselves, like bigotry. Take away the religion and they'd just have to find a different excuse. There are also members of the same religion who don't follow the bigoted beliefs of their fellow members. Which just goes to show that it's not the religion at fault, but the culture.



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01 Mar 2010, 10:10 pm

i am rather speechless after reading this. my stomach is turning. whether or not the article was objective, this does not mean that such atrocities do not occur. in fact, i once read in a book, a section about domestic abuse in Bangladesh and it was appalling to say the very least. while such information represents the worst areas, what really matters is that such suffering should not occur at all. neither was this thread supposed to be an arguement about religion and what the intentions of the article were. there are many posts explaining how injustices occur, yet that obviously does not mean that such violence should occur. the issue is that improving people's lives does not appear to be a priority in backwards areas because of oppressive ideologies disguised as legitimate law used to take advantage of people who have very little knowledge. both islam and christianity mention the punishment of eternal damnation, which unfortunately, the destitute and illiterate in muslim countries might beleive and fear.

i do not understand why so many societies as a whole seem to despise women. it is possible that their smaller physical status makes them more vulnerable. while this thread is quite depressing, there is worse. there used to be a practice in India, where the widow of a deceased husband would be coerced to die at his funeral. this strikes me as sadistic and irrational. why the hell should a women be punished for her husbands' death when it was not even her fault?

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And yet there are "Cultural Relativists" that will defend this, and other misogynist atrocities like female genital mutilation in the name of "respecting other cultures".


its unbelievable how whenever human rights abuses happen to women they are seen as "sacred tradition" yet the same injustices happening to men would never be accepted.

cultural relativists need to learn that while tolerance is important, it is not an end in itself, and obviously, tolerating oppression and intolerance, kind of undermines the purpose of acceptance. in other words the right to practice one's religion and culture has been distorted for purposes of using those practices against those who are reluctant, which makes no sense if the freedom of religion and culture serves to protect minorities rather than simply to preserve religion. i find the cultural relativism arguement to be simplistic since they are taking religious practices at face value without realising that religion has often been skewed to micromanage the lives of people, especially women. another issue seems to be that people are resistant to change, even if it is for the better.

sadly, the word, religion, literally means to link people together, yet it mostly divides them and screws over minorities and women. a religious collectivist society should not only benefit a priviledged minority.

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Talking about religion is tricky at best. You make one small comment against any religion, and everyone instantly goes after you with cries of "RACIST!! !".


i have a feeling that these accusations are mostly used as excuses for not acknowledging the flaws in one's society. there are many things i hate about my culture such as most corporations, materialism, bigotry, etc. islamic cultures need to accept theirs as well. in other words, giving corporal punishment to a rape victim points to a seriously buggered system. i will admit that there is intolerance towards muslim extremism, yet that is more of a result of the growing threat of terrorism (the al queda has managed to spread to about 30 countries) and the recent steps backward in places such as Afghanistan concerning the status of women.

despite my paucity of knowledge on third world countries, i cannot help thinking that if governments in those areas spent half as much effort improving living conditions as they do enforcing religious laws that often discriminate against women, there might be less poverty and conflict. correct me if i'm wrong, but the latest undp report mentions empowering women, obviously for reasons of equality, but also to alleviate poverty. therefore there is a chance that letting women in underdeveloped countries leave the home without accompanyment and letting them work is not going to disrupt the status quo to the point where functional roles inside and outside the home are compromised. in fact, more employment leads to more productivity which most likely affects individuals and regions as a whole. the point is that such hegemony of men over women is causing women's potentially productive roles in society to be wasted.



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01 Mar 2010, 11:19 pm

petitesouris wrote:

i do not understand why so many societies as a whole seem to despise women. it is possible that their smaller physical status makes them more vulnerable. its unbelievable how whenever human rights abuses happen to women they are seen as "sacred tradition" yet the same injustices happening to men would never be accepted.
another issue seems to be that people are resistant to change, even if it is for the better.
sadly, the word, religion, literally means to link people together, yet it mostly divides them and screws over minorities and women. a religious collectivist society should not only benefit a priviledged minority.


from the dawn of mankind there has been a persistent tendency towards making scapegoats, i.e., some lower class of folk for whom the higher classes can assign total blame for whatever ails their society. religion, for the most part, is just one convenient organizing principality for systemic scapegoating. the people who benefit from this, iow the privileged/religious elect including the powerbrokers, are the most resistant to any change in this evil regime. and since they have all the gold, they are the ones who make the rules which perpetuate their evil. human nature being the $#!++y thing that it is, any attempt at putting folk on a more even level, will result in some folk becoming more "equal" than other folk, whether or not there is a religious organizing principal at work. and the limiting factor for the put-upon is not specifically gender but social class. it just happens that there are many women in the lower classes due to systemic poverty. but whosoever resides therein suffers in a similar manner, iow the economic bottom-dwellers are all raped in some way.
the lion's share of societies on earth sin by scapegoating. it is all too easy for the pot to call the kettle black- there are many types of atrocities in many muslim cultures such as the widespread debasement of women, but in other cultures there too [by varying degrees] is blatant racial, religious, gender and financial-class discrimination. in america, if you are poor you are looked-down-upon as "trailer trash" or "useless eaters" no matter the gender or race. scapegoating is a convenient "divide and conquer" tactic of the elect, iow the lower-class folk will more readily accept their lot if there is some group they collectively can point to and say "they are lower-class than me," and will resist any change to this status-quo just as much as their leaders would resist.



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02 Mar 2010, 2:21 pm

MissConstrue wrote:

"I want justice," she said


No justice for her, from "the religion of Peace".

ruveyn



petitesouris
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03 Mar 2010, 4:46 pm

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and countries which are having trouble with islamic immigrants [france, the netherlands] should consider rethinking their immigration policies- i mean, if canada can limit the number of americans entering their country, then surely france can do the same with muslims.


unfortunately that is much easier said than done. the issue is not so much the immigration policies as those who are searching for cheap labor. since no one else is really willing to do this menial work, the immigrants now have more leverage. apparently, some are even trying to influence politics. everything is so complex and full of obstacles and corruption it is no wonder that change happens so slowly



Last edited by petitesouris on 03 Mar 2010, 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

petitesouris
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03 Mar 2010, 4:50 pm

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and we say humans have come so far from brutality like this.... :evil: :thumbdown:


time does not change as much as it appears to. even a thousand years ago there were concepts of liberty and equality, yet today these have still not been completely acheived. the issue is not time but people's attitudes toward change and the right conditions for them. in desolate areas in poor nations, it most likely is not the 21st century in most ways, yet in a city area in an industrialized country, we are "where we should be".



Last edited by petitesouris on 03 Mar 2010, 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

petitesouris
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03 Mar 2010, 5:05 pm

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there are many types of atrocities in many muslim cultures such as the widespread debasement of women, but in other cultures there too [by varying degrees] is blatant racial, religious, gender and financial-class discrimination.


your post really helps to explain why people commit such cruelty, yet rationalizing still does not make it right. it is no coincidence that in religious societies, women are in the most prostrate roles. another reason why religious extremism should end, although that will not happen any time soon. it does not seem to enhance communities in any way because being part of that community entails being abased if one is a woman or anyone who is considered an outsider, which, ironically, seems to be most people



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03 Mar 2010, 6:56 pm

petitesouris wrote:
unfortunately that is much easier said than done. the issue is not so much the immigration policies as those who are searching for cheap labor. since no one else is really willing to do this menial work, the immigrants now have more leverage. apparently, some are even trying to influence politics. everything is so complex and full of obstacles and corruption it is no wonder that change happens so slowly


it is a matter of priorities- if a society will not disabuse itself of the notion of "cheap labor" [not cheap in the big scheme of things], then the troubles will continue. native citizens WILL do the labor if the pay is right, especially considering that for the uneducated, "clean" jobs are fewer and fewer. pogo said, "we have met the enemy, and he is us."