Any Aspies here that dated a Borderliner?

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psych
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13 Mar 2006, 1:20 pm

danlo wrote:
You say that because a person is born with ASD, it is completely different from BLPD. How? That the person is born with the cause for their personality differences does not make them at all different from someone who, because of their experiences, develops a personality different from the norm.


The prognosis is different - Someone whos differences are hardwired into their neurons can adapt, but never be 'cured' into normality. A borderline (i hate using that term) CAN be healed, and recover the 'real' them, the well-adapted person that they should have developed into, were it not for their childhood problems.


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There are many autistic behaviours that can cause hurt other people who interact with you. Would you deny those behaviours are an intrinsic part of your personality? Because it has that effect, it makes that personality BAD in the same way as a borderline personality. Would you say that it's because that personality developed in response to bad experiences it makes it worse than a harmful autistic personality? It would be utter nonsense to draw such a conclusion.

Those experiences themselves might be bad, but that's not what makes us consider the borderline personality bad. It's the effect it has on other people, and also because it has that effect (which is equally attributable to that person's personality AS WELL AS our lack of ability to deal with that person), that also harms the borderline person. That's all.


Im not trying to appropriate blame here, perhaps i should have said 'negative' instead of 'bad'. Its a negative condition because it consists of developed 'traits' that can be fixed. Saying 'its just the way they are' isnt going to help anyone have that epiphany and start the (long & bumpy) road to recovery.

Some forms of therapy offered by clueless health professionals may be counterproductive, and it takes huge strength of character to for the sufferer to stick it out and heal - but it can be done. You may know someone whos had problems with clueless or arrogant health-prefessionals but dont write off the possiblity of recovery for everyone - it is truly tragic that they were ever dissociated from their 'real' healthy identities, and they deserve so much more.



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13 Mar 2006, 6:41 pm

So far, I am glad to see some mature discussion on this topic I started. Don't let it fester into a flame fest tough :wink:

In response to a few posts made to 'defend' the BLD's position, they can't be blamed for it, and I don't think most of them (at least my ex) are aware of their manupilations, but in the intrest of self preservation, it's better to keep your distance from one.



hale_bopp
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13 Mar 2006, 10:25 pm

I don't know what it is but proabbly not.

I've only dated people with annoying syndrome.



bobaloo
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14 Mar 2006, 1:39 am

hale_bopp wrote:
I don't know what it is but proabbly not.

I've only dated people with annoying syndrome.


They might have turned annoying when you devalued them hale :P



hale_bopp
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14 Mar 2006, 2:23 am

??



danlo
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14 Mar 2006, 6:59 am

jman wrote:
Borderline traits are maladaptive, autistic traits are neurological. When an autistic hurts another for the most part it's not intentional but may be due to theory of mind issues. Whereas in a borderline they do it intentionally, HOWEVER, it stems from dysfunctional and subconcious coping mechanisms due to traumatic experiences when young.

Borderline personalities are developed in response to experiences. Autistic personalities are developed because their neurological differences causes them to perceive their experiences differently. How does that change the fact that both personalities hurts other people?

Basically, what you're saying is this:
An autistic personality that hurts people because their neurological difference caused their personality to develop that way is excused their behaviour and it's not a disorder. A borderline personality that hurts people because they've had experiences that caused their personality to develop that way isn't excused, and it is a disorder. That the autistic personality, because its root cause is neurological, it's involuntary. That the borderline personality, because its root cause wasn't neurological, it is voluntary. Do you honestly think that the borderline person had greater control over how their personality developed than the autistic?

There seems to be this perception that the borderline is any less a slave to their own neurological structure/subconscious than autistics are to theirs. That because the autistic personality is different/disruptive due to different subconscious processing virtue of the different neurological structures, they are excused and that that personality is not a disorder. That because the borderline personality is different/disruptive due to different subconscious processing virtue of childhood experiences, they are not excused, their personality is a disorder, AND IT IS INTENTIONAL. One would think that, given the conception that autistics are more calculating and control their behaviour consciously more than normal people, they do it more intentionally than bipolar people. Of course, this conception is ignored when convenient and endorsed when it suits.


psych wrote:
The prognosis is different - Someone whos differences are hardwired into their neurons can adapt, but never be 'cured' into normality. A borderline (i hate using that term) CAN be healed, and recover the 'real' them, the well-adapted person that they should have developed into, were it not for their childhood problems.

How does this make the two different, though? Neither is able to help themselves very much. Personality is wired into a great deal of stuff: It colors your thoughts, it colors your perceptions, it's wired into how you process thoughts. People don't have much control over their subconscious. With autism, the neurological differences causes their different subconscious processes. With borderline, their experiences cause their different subconscious processes. The idea that they can be 'cured' or 'healed' any more than autistics can is merely a perception with absolutely no evidence that they're not just adapting further. The same assumptions are made when autistics adapt and are proclaimed 'cured'. You know it's not the case, but when people are making the same assumptions about borderline people, you stop questioning those assumptions and start believing it to be truth.

psych wrote:
Im not trying to appropriate blame here, perhaps i should have said 'negative' instead of 'bad'. Its a negative condition because it consists of developed 'traits' that can be fixed. Saying 'its just the way they are' isnt going to help anyone have that epiphany and start the (long & bumpy) road to recovery.

The same can be said about autism: Autism is a negative condition because it consists of harmful traits that the autistic can be 'trained' not to show. Do you believe the same applies to autistics, and that they shouldn't be allowed to exhibit harmful behaviours just because they're autistic? You may not be able to cure the root cause of autism, but you can modify their behavioural reactions so that they don't react in harmful negative ways. Basically, that is what you're suggesting should be done to borderline people.


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psych
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14 Mar 2006, 8:48 am

Quote:
...The idea that they can be 'cured' or 'healed' any more than autistics can is merely a perception with absolutely no evidence that they're not just adapting further. The same assumptions are made when autistics adapt and are proclaimed 'cured'. You know it's not the case, but when people are making the same assumptions about borderline people, you stop questioning those assumptions and start believing it to be truth...


Borderline personalities are false or 'fake' personalities. Most borderlines are NTs who dissociated at an early age to escape painful emotions. Genuine healing of BLPD is not 'adapting' further into falsity, it is recovering what is real - the NT personality that was abandoned in childhood.

This is the exact opposite of a 'cured' autistic, who starts life real, but learnt to suppress their real personality and 'adapt' into a faked NT persona.

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..with absolutely no evidence that they're not just adapting further...


This is an area where 'evidence' is a difficult concept. I think the closest you'll get to evidence is the testimonials of self-proclaimed recovered-borderlines. Some of them describe the healing process with great sentiment and lucidity - moments of epiphany, self-discovery and overwhelming emotional release.

articles on healing written by a recovered borderline;
http://www.suite101.com/articles.cfm/bo ... ersonality
http://www.suite101.com/articles.cfm/bo ... ality/more



reh-nine
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18 Mar 2006, 3:34 pm

Problems are bound to arise when Asperger's meets BPD, as the latter seems to be one of the "needier" disorders at times.

When someone seeks constant reassurance that they are valued, and their Aspie partner cannot take their cue to provide it, the relationship is doomed.

My boyfriend's depressed/possibly BPD/possibly bi-polar, and sometimes the strain is unbearable.



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18 Mar 2006, 8:03 pm

Danlo,

You still haven't answered my question. How come you know so much about BPD and defend it so passionately?



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18 Mar 2006, 8:42 pm

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Anyone here that are or have dated someone with Borderline syndrome, and agree it's a match made in hell?


Been through that mill 8O

:oops: :oops: :oops:


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danlo
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19 Mar 2006, 9:23 am

Postperson, because I'm passionate about trying to help people realize that it is all just a point of view, and that there are many points of view that are as equally valid as the popularly accepted point of view everyone accepts as truth. It is no less important in these instances where one group of "disabled people" debates another group of "disabled people", and that first group wants equality and to shed the tag of "disorder", yet continue to perceive other groups in the same light as people perceive the first group.


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19 Mar 2006, 7:36 pm

Well if one has been personally damaged by knowing a psychopath/sociopath of some variety, then one is entitled to avoid them. It would be foolish to do otherwise.



danlo
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20 Mar 2006, 12:54 am

I totally agree with you, Postperson.


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Brainsforbreakfast
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20 Mar 2006, 7:16 am

Postperson wrote:
Well if one has been personally damaged by knowing a psychopath/sociopath of some variety, then one is entitled to avoid them. It would be foolish to do otherwise.


Well put.



Bateau
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25 Mar 2006, 5:27 am

This sounds a LOT like Yasmeen, whom I dated for about, hmmm, two years I guess.

official DX of MPD, but it wasn't correct, as she was the same person, just would randomly completely switch most aspects of her personality, there were patterns to it, and I could get along well with her most time, but it could be confusing never knowing what she would be like each time I met her in person. All in all, since I was able to discern patterns in her behavior it wasn't too bad, in fact in some ways it was kinda fun never knowing what to expect, yet still knowing it would be one of a set of patterns.