Any Aspies here that dated a Borderliner?

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theman
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11 Mar 2006, 7:39 pm

Nomaken wrote:
I havent, but for no good reason at all, i think it would be an interesting challenge.


It will def finitely be a challenge, and they can be a lot of fun just make sure you have an escape route planned.

I don't think anyone here is blaming all the relationship problems on the BPD partner. There are just some things that don't mix well, like oil and water, small children and electric fences, and auspies and people with borderline personality disorder.



danlo
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12 Mar 2006, 6:17 am

Brainsforbreakfast wrote:
The problems in this kind of relationship lie in that, borderliners need attention, assurance, safety, acknowledgment (sp?). Thats hard enough for a NT partner to provide. While a NT partner usualy tries to communicate their needs, a borderliner is always in "self-defense" mode.

What would be a simple disagreement or discussion for me about something trivial, is an attack for my ex. A big time fight/depresion/crisis will arise.

Therefore the problem was also in that you were unable to provide what the borderline person needed from the relationship. Remind me again how this is different from normal failed relationships? It's natural to ascribe the problems to the fact that they're a BP, and dwell on it and make it "the reason why it failed". Except it's really no different to any failed relationship. Fights also require two parties. They might react initially, but it is perpetuated when you react with your own self-defense mechanisms to their attack. It needs a matching reaction for the drama to be played out fully.


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danlo
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12 Mar 2006, 6:55 am

psych wrote:
I disagree. Its well established that Autistic Spectrum Disorders have a strong genetic component. BPD seems to have a strong correlation with themes of neglect and abandonment during childhood.

To take another example; Dissociative Identity disorder (multiple personality) has a strong correlation with ritualistic sexual abuse. PTSD has an obvious correlation with acute trauma.

I believe the etiology for BPD is similar, in some ways to PTSD. Would you go around telling PTSD sufferers they are 'neurodiverse'?

A strong genetic component, sure. Just because it is genetic, does not mean it's any less of a disorder. Genetic or not, it still impacts on your personality, too. Depression also appears to be genetically linked, as well as schizophrenia and other disorders. PTSD is completely different. BPD is just a personality type that some psychologist has determined is "wrong" and deemed it a disorder. In fact, it is just an example of diversity in personality. Now think about autism the same way. It's just a human whose brain has developed differently that doctors have determined as "wrong" and deemed it a disorder. In fact, it is just an example of diversity in brain structure. Would I tell PTSD people they are personality-diverse? Of course, but PTSD is quite different to BPD. PTSD is the result of an extreme trauma they have experienced. A trauma outside the range of acceptable limits, that has impacted upon their psyche in an extremely negative way. BPD is similar, but it doesn't have those far-reaching effects, and it doesn't cause the problems PTSD does. I'm sure they're just fine with the way they are. They're not damaged, they're whole.


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12 Mar 2006, 12:16 pm

I once did; however, I don’t quite think she was an Aspie. She had many of the weaknesses, but she doesn’t have the logical thinking or any intellectual interests.



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12 Mar 2006, 6:27 pm

I'm pretty sure my sister-in-law is borderline. I can't get away from her fast enough. I have as little to do with her as possible. The verbal abuse is shocking and the self-righteousness, ugh.



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12 Mar 2006, 6:38 pm

What you guys got against BLPD? Bullies



Postperson
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12 Mar 2006, 6:51 pm

no. they are the bullies.



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12 Mar 2006, 9:49 pm

Sounds a lot like my brother (read the wiki), sans the suicidal stuff. His mood can switch form happy to extreme anger in a split second, and he's a master liar. For a few years, he kept cycling through friends and getting in fights, etc. I think he's just an ass without enough discipline, probably not BLPD. But the thought of dating someone with it sounds like it'd wear me down.


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13 Mar 2006, 2:57 am

Aspie_Chav wrote:
I once did; however, I don’t quite think she was an Aspie. She had many of the weaknesses, but she doesn’t have the logical thinking or any intellectual interests.

Oh, I see, because she doesn't fit the stereotypical view certain groups have of how an autistic should be then she isn't one. Congratulations for neurodiversity, we've just made a giant leap in understanding and acceptance! It's funny, one person's logical thinking is to another an illogical way of thinking. Because you do not understand the logic behind her thinking, does not make it illogical. Also, I'm sure you'll find many autistics who don't have any intellectual interests. Nowhere in the DSM-IV does it say they have to have an intellectual interest. It doesn't say they have to be crap at sports and not enjoy sports. Yet it is a stereotypical view that they are and that they don't. Does that mean you can't be autistic and enjoy sports, even be good at them? No, nor do you have to have intellectual interests to be autistic. You can't make those sorts of assumptions. It's not logical.
They're bullies, they're difficult to handle, hard to get along with, troublemakers etc. Granted, a lot of this can be true, about a lot of people. Why does everyone have the bias that the fault is entirely theirs? Everyone seems to have this expectation that everyone should conform to a role that isn't at odds with our own, that we should all get along. We desperately try to believe that the reason they're taking offense is because they're the ones causing the problem. We grab at the idea of BPD as a "proof" that the other person is to blame for whatever troubles we've experienced. That your personalities are not complementary is noone's fault, it's not yours and it's not theirs. Stop trying to lay blame.


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13 Mar 2006, 3:22 am

Why the especial interest in borderliners Danlo, why the impassioned defence? eh?



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13 Mar 2006, 7:03 am

danlo wrote:
psych wrote:
I disagree. Its well established that Autistic Spectrum Disorders have a strong genetic component. BPD seems to have a strong correlation with themes of neglect and abandonment during childhood.

To take another example; Dissociative Identity disorder (multiple personality) has a strong correlation with ritualistic sexual abuse. PTSD has an obvious correlation with acute trauma.

I believe the etiology for BPD is similar, in some ways to PTSD. Would you go around telling PTSD sufferers they are 'neurodiverse'?

A strong genetic component, sure. Just because it is genetic, does not mean it's any less of a disorder. Genetic or not, it still impacts on your personality, too. Depression also appears to be genetically linked, as well as schizophrenia and other disorders. PTSD is completely different. BPD is just a personality type that some psychologist has determined is "wrong" and deemed it a disorder. In fact, it is just an example of diversity in personality. Now think about autism the same way. It's just a human whose brain has developed differently that doctors have determined as "wrong" and deemed it a disorder. In fact, it is just an example of diversity in brain structure. Would I tell PTSD people they are personality-diverse? Of course, but PTSD is quite different to BPD. PTSD is the result of an extreme trauma they have experienced. A trauma outside the range of acceptable limits, that has impacted upon their psyche in an extremely negative way. BPD is similar, but it doesn't have those far-reaching effects, and it doesn't cause the problems PTSD does. I'm sure they're just fine with the way they are. They're not damaged, they're whole.


Ill rephrase that: you are born with ASD's, You are not (imo) born with BLPD. ASDs 'just are', BLPD imo is a set of maladaptive patterns that developed out of misery. It is a bad thing. Its quite healthy and natural to want to heal it.

Your logic seems to be;

Doctors are wrong about A
A has similarities to B
therefore anything Doctors say about B is false.



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13 Mar 2006, 9:53 am

Postperson wrote:
no. they are the bullies.



They're not really bullies per se, however sometimes their behavior suggests otherwise...

Most BPs as children were either severely abused or abandoned as children. Abuse is kind of a form of abandonment.

Their maladaptive traits stem from their intense fear of abandonment, but at the same time trying to rectify their abandonment issues.

Common scenario in BP and non-BP relationships...

BP meets non BP partner, BP idealizes him thinking he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. (S)he puts him on one of the tallest pedestals in the world. Then somethiing happens that disappoints her, they quicky switch idealization, to devualtion. When they devalue their partner with their verbal abuse, anger, manipulation, and false accusations they are sub conciousiely trying to re create the abandonment they experienced as a child. Once partner shows his/her displeasure torwards the BPs vindictive behavior, the BP feels remorseful, s(he) has disrupted the relationship and feels s(he) will be abandoned. BP becomes remorseful because again they've disappointed someone they loved. So they fall into a deep depression, and start to apologise prefusely in order to rectify the situation. When they do this they are trying rectify their childhood of abandonment. Once the isssue is "resolved", the partner goes back idealizing the partner, and the cylce starts alll over again....

Borderlines may also do impulsive things or self mutilate because they may feel that no one cares,especially if they don't have a significant other. They are often bored if their is no drama in their lives. Abuse and abandoment are very dramatic things to confront, and it's what their comfortable wiith. So when their's no excitement or drama in their life they create it for themselves with impulsive behavior such as reckless sex, drug and alcohol binges, spending sprees, and wild driving. They may self mutilate, contemplate suicide,or even attempt it due to their discomfort and thinking their life and existence is worthless. They do all this when their bored, when their life is boring, they feel uncomfortable. So they do these things (on a subconcious level) to create the drama in their life they so crave to feel comfortable. This also includes the conflict and power struggle mentioned in the paragraph above.

So yes in a way it is bullying, however they don;t bully for self gratifcation they bully to create drama in order to validate their perceived worthless existence.


This is a very sad disorder to deal with. People with AS may have impaired social and communication skills, but some if not many are still capable of healthy happy relationships. However due to the very nature of the disorder, people with BPD are not. It often requres years and years of therapy. It's very unfortunate but true.

I believe BPD is one of the many results of the illls of sociey such as abuse and abandonment

With that said however, If someone says they have BPD you may want to keep your distance a lil bit, don't tottally ditch them, just don't get too close. After all they can't hellp they way they are.

Based on experience, being in a relationship with a borderline can be hell on earth. THey can take you for the ride of your life. She really brought out the worst in me but I disgress.

If you guys want more insight into the borderlines way of thinking, PM me and I can give you some resources.


In the meantime though try to have some compassion torwards them, after all WP would cease to exist if we all didn't have our problems.



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13 Mar 2006, 11:16 am

Postperson wrote:
no. they are the bullies.


No there vulnerable people who tend to get shat on in life from a great height. Particularly by the mental health services who like to tag them attention seeker manipulator syndrome. They are open to abuse probably to a far greater extent then we are and ive seen first hand through my friends experiances in the mental health system what kind of crap they go through.



danlo
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13 Mar 2006, 11:25 am

psych wrote:
Ill rephrase that: you are born with ASD's, You are not (imo) born with BLPD. ASDs 'just are', BLPD imo is a set of maladaptive patterns that developed out of misery. It is a bad thing. Its quite healthy and natural to want to heal it.

Your logic seems to be;

Doctors are wrong about A
A has similarities to B
therefore anything Doctors say about B is false.

You're ignoring the point. It's not that they are wrong about A, and because they're similar, what they say about B is false. Look at WHY they are wrong about A, then look at B and see if they're making the same mistake with B.

You say that because a person is born with ASD, it is completely different from BLPD. How? That the person is born with the cause for their personality differences does not make them at all different from someone who, because of their experiences, develops a personality different from the norm. There are many autistic behaviours that can cause hurt other people who interact with you. Would you deny those behaviours are an intrinsic part of your personality? Because it has that effect, it makes that personality BAD in the same way as a borderline personality. Would you say that it's because that personality developed in response to bad experiences it makes it worse than a harmful autistic personality? It would be utter nonsense to draw such a conclusion.

Those experiences themselves might be bad, but that's not what makes us consider the borderline personality bad. It's the effect it has on other people, and also because it has that effect (which is equally attributable to that person's personality AS WELL AS our lack of ability to deal with that person), that also harms the borderline person. That's all.


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13 Mar 2006, 11:45 am

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You say that because a person is born with ASD, it is completely different from BLPD. How?



borderline traits are maladaptive, autistic traits are neurological. When an autisitc hurts another for the most part it's not intentional but may be due to theory of mind issues. Whereas in a borderline they do it intentionallly, HOWEVER, it stems from dysfunctional and subconcious coping mechanisms due to traumatic experiences when young.

again BPD is a very unfortuante disorder and despite their hurtful tendencies we should have compassion for them instead of scorning them.



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