UK Aspies: who will you vote for in the June elections?

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SDFarsight
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21 Feb 2010, 10:41 am

gemstone123 wrote:
and the Conservatives don't give a damn about the working class.


While I know too tell how good the Tories' PR machine is, it's also true that we're not living in the 1980s when the "class war" actually mattered.



gemstone123
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21 Feb 2010, 11:48 am

SDFarsight wrote:
gemstone123 wrote:
and the Conservatives don't give a damn about the working class.


While I know too tell how good the Tories' PR machine is, it's also true that we're not living in the 1980s when the "class war" actually mattered.


What "class war"? Besides that many people feel that the Tories policies such as "tax breaks" etc are more geared towards helping people with higher-incomes.


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Topcat16
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21 Feb 2010, 12:18 pm

SDFarsight wrote:
gemstone123 wrote:
and the Conservatives don't give a damn about the working class.


While I know too tell how good the Tories' PR machine is, it's also true that we're not living in the 1980s when the "class war" actually mattered.

Trust the conservatives really haven;t changed that much



Tequila
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21 Feb 2010, 12:42 pm

United Kingdom Independence Party.

I'm involved with the UKIP campaign locally. I doubt UKIP will win here but cutting the majority of the sitting MP will raise a smile.



SDFarsight
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21 Feb 2010, 12:56 pm

gemstone123 wrote:
SDFarsight wrote:
gemstone123 wrote:
and the Conservatives don't give a damn about the working class.


While I know too tell how good the Tories' PR machine is, it's also true that we're not living in the 1980s when the "class war" actually mattered.


What "class war"?


Exactly.



Master_Pedant
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21 Feb 2010, 1:07 pm

SDFarsight wrote:
gemstone123 wrote:
SDFarsight wrote:
gemstone123 wrote:
and the Conservatives don't give a damn about the working class.


While I know too tell how good the Tories' PR machine is, it's also true that we're not living in the 1980s when the "class war" actually mattered.


What "class war"?


Exactly.


The fact that so many people can it "favouritism for the rich" or "policies that widden the gap between rich and poor", rather than class warfare, is of little signficance to the issue.

If few Britons know what "class war" means now, you'll sure as heck bet they'll know it after Cameron's experiments.

NOTE: I'm assuming you mean by "class war" the antagonism between the richer portions of society and the poorer portions of society caused by grinding income inequality and not the UK radical-anarchist newspapper.

To Gemstone123: As defined in the above note, "class warefare" is the antagonism between the richer portions of society and the poorer portions of society caused by grinding income inequality.



Tequila
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21 Feb 2010, 1:23 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
NOTE: I'm assuming you mean by "class war" the antagonism between the richer portions of society and the poorer portions of society caused by grinding income inequality and not the UK radical-anarchist newspapper.


Are you serious? Have you had a look at what the Tories stand for? The answer is not a lot. I can't see them being radically different from Labour, really.

Also, I take it you're Canadian?



Master_Pedant
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21 Feb 2010, 1:25 pm

Tequila wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
NOTE: I'm assuming you mean by "class war" the antagonism between the richer portions of society and the poorer portions of society caused by grinding income inequality and not the UK radical-anarchist newspapper.


Are you serious? Have you had a look at what the Tories stand for? The answer is not a lot. I can't see them being radically different from Labour, really.

Also, I take it you're Canadian?


Yes - I am a Canadian.

Stephen Harper also stood for "very little" prior to election yet has tried, with utter contempt for Parliament, to ram through his agenda (if limited success).



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21 Feb 2010, 1:28 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
Yes - I am a Canadian.


David Cameron does come across as Blair Mk II. I live in traditional Tory country and more and more traditional Tories are considering voting for UKIP because he doesn't seem like a conservative!



gemstone123
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21 Feb 2010, 1:54 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
SDFarsight wrote:
gemstone123 wrote:
SDFarsight wrote:
gemstone123 wrote:
and the Conservatives don't give a damn about the working class.


While I know too tell how good the Tories' PR machine is, it's also true that we're not living in the 1980s when the "class war" actually mattered.


What "class war"?


Exactly.


The fact that so many people can it "favouritism for the rich" or "policies that widden the gap between rich and poor", rather than class warfare, is of little signficance to the issue.

If few Britons know what "class war" means now, you'll sure as heck bet they'll know it after Cameron's experiments.

NOTE: I'm assuming you mean by "class war" the antagonism between the richer portions of society and the poorer portions of society caused by grinding income inequality and not the UK radical-anarchist newspapper.

To Gemstone123: As defined in the above note, "class warefare" is the antagonism between the richer portions of society and the poorer portions of society caused by grinding income inequality.


I know what "class warfare" is I was just making the point that, for the moment anyway, there doesn't seem to be much antagonism between different classes. I agree though that it will become more of an issue if Cameron becomes Prime Minister.


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gemstone123
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21 Feb 2010, 1:55 pm

Tequila wrote:
United Kingdom Independence Party.

I'm involved with the UKIP campaign locally. I doubt UKIP will win here but cutting the majority of the sitting MP will raise a smile.


These parties seem to be gaining more popularity along with BNP, Green Party etc. Does anyone here support the Green Party by the way?


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21 Feb 2010, 3:13 pm

Asp-Z wrote:
xenon13 wrote:
Keep Cameron out is what I suggest. He will impose on the economy the equivalent of bloodletting and leeches. He is a menace.

Dion by the way in Canada increased his support when he brought up the issue of the Canadian Conservatives' not caring about the damage that was taking place and refusal to stimulate the economy. A dirty, dirty trick by the CTV network by a man who gloated that years ago he helped re-elect Mulroney and subject us to an economic nightmare of zero inflation and high unemployment helped cut off Dion's momentum. When the Canadian Conservatives proposed a bloodletting and leeches budget in December 2008, Dion did one of the gutsiest things ever in Canadian political history and tried to claim the prime minister post by creating a coalition with House of Commons support. Harper and the Conservatives shut down parliament to prevent the defeat of his government. When the parliament was brought back, Harper had abandoned his idiotic budget for something with stimulus and thus saved us the sorry fate of Ireland.

Britain is facing the same choice and they must keep Cameron out at all costs.


Image

But, seriously though, will the current governmnt be any better, after they've put us into so much debt?



The debt will never be paid. It doesn't matter. Dick Cheney was right about that when he said "Deficits don't matter." The reason is that under your monetary system, it is impossible to default. The only price to creating money to pay bondholders is inflation, but if aggregate demand is depressed as it is now, the deflationary pressures will stop it. Japan has a 200% debt to GDP ratio and has no inflation at all. So what they do usually is scare people with stories of speculators taking shots at the pound in order to force the government to dissolve part of the economy. Spending should be cut only when there's full employment and the economy is overheating. Under such a scenario, most if not all of the deficit will be wiped out anyway by the increase in revenues. In Canada, when the Liberals took us out of deficit and into surplus, the overwhelming amount of that was the result of the economic recovery that meant less spending on social assistance and more tax revenues. It was not because of the cuts, cuts that seemed to be done to appease the credit rating agencies and speculators, but which was probably counterproductive. Also, they stopped the Conservative policy of zero inflation-high unemployment that marked the Mulroney years. This increased the deficit because of the artificially high interest rates imposed during this time as well as the money they had to pay unemployed people put there by design.



Asp-Z
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22 Feb 2010, 1:04 pm

gemstone123 wrote:
Tequila wrote:
United Kingdom Independence Party.

I'm involved with the UKIP campaign locally. I doubt UKIP will win here but cutting the majority of the sitting MP will raise a smile.


These parties seem to be gaining more popularity along with BNP, Green Party etc. Does anyone here support the Green Party by the way?


The UKIP and BNP are different - Griffin in a holocaust denying Nazi who's party wants to kick anyone not white out of the country. The UKIP, from what I know at least, isn't anywhere near as extreme, and says being British is about belief in fairness etc, not ethnicity.



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22 Feb 2010, 4:51 pm

UKIP just strike me as mini-conservative party for those conservatives who do not like the EU and as a protest vote against cameron.

And Robert Kilroy Silk used to be a member oh boy what an opportunistic twat he was :lol:



Tequila
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22 Feb 2010, 6:24 pm

Asp-Z wrote:
The UKIP, from what I know at least, isn't anywhere near as extreme, and says being British is about belief in fairness etc, not ethnicity.


UKIP are civic nationalists; the BNP are of the ethnic variety.



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22 Feb 2010, 7:34 pm

As much as I dislike Brown, he didn't cause the world economic crisis. I don't get how people find that so hard to understand, it is like they believe anything that comes out of Cameron's mouth. I guess that is the electorate for you. There is not evidence to suggest we would have recovered faster, whoever had been behind the wheel.

Apart from anything else "the keys to the Maserati" were handed over many years ago by Thatcher's deregulation of the markets, and then Americans followed suit. But that still doesn’t mean they caused the current crisis.

People should stop blaming anyone for everything and take a long hard look at themselves. Every election people lap up the same old crap, yet they complain that politicians lie to them. Of course politician lie to them, they want them to! They want the same old fantasy every election. A politician that didn’t bend the truth wouldn’t win anything. They are only telling you what you want to hear.

Calling someone else an idealist doesn’t make you any less of one. In the western world we are obsessed by how great we are. We don’t have this Capitalism we talk about; we have Corporatism Mussolini would have been proud of. What’s more these companies are so inefficient they wouldn’t even survive without the protectionism we afford them. We have banks that cannot fail, and multinationals that are so large, as a result of pandering policies, they cannot be reined in.

I have spent the last three hours trying to get accurate price information. We love closed supply chains and contrived industries for sure. So much so you have to rethink the product you actually want, and then get someone you have to pay for a wipe your arse service you didn’t want. Criticize the Far East all you want but at least if they make it you can buy it, no BS only price.

Don’t get me wrong we do need regulation, but most of what we have is BS. We also have an unhealthy obsession with “intellectual property” and contrived stuff like that. Yes ideas can be vulnerable at the start but come on; it has little to do with intellectual property, apart from anything else so few of the originators can actually afford to protect themselves as a start up. It would be better called “idea hoarding”. I would support limited patents with a short term leg up to the real innovators, and it should be for reall innovation not the crap that get covered nowadays.