How do you tell if someone is a savant?

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glider18
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24 Feb 2010, 11:29 am

ursaminor wrote:
glider18 wrote:
(Rainman type, Daniel Tammet type---like only 50 in the world)
About 50 more.


I went back and looked and found the 100 number for the number of prodigious savants. They say it is 100 listed in the past century. As for the number alive today---any idea?


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Blindspot149
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24 Feb 2010, 11:37 am

I have read that we humans use perhaps only 10% of the capacity of our brains.

I think Savants give us a tiny glimpse of the true potential of the human mind.............and spirit


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EquiisSavant
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24 Feb 2010, 11:39 am

I think ursaminor misquotes Treffert. To my knowledge this: "There exist prodigious savants, with no impairments," is, sadly, not true. The DEFINITION of a savant is a Paradox between savant abilities and severe disabilities. Even a prodigious savant will have at least some severe disabilities in some respect. This is due to paradoxical functional facilitation occurring in the neurology.

Amazing paintings/drawings of the humans. I can't do humans very well, because I can't "read" facial expressions or understand them. A bummer. I can sketch or paint almost anything else. I can do it first sketch, freehand, but I sometimes like to use interesting pics, if available. I was able to sketch and paint before I ever had any art instruction of any kind. It's just something I can do.

~Equiis



EquiisSavant
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24 Feb 2010, 11:44 am

glider18 wrote:
ursaminor wrote:
glider18 wrote:
(Rainman type, Daniel Tammet type---like only 50 in the world)
About 50 more.


I went back and looked and found the 100 number for the number of prodigious savants. They say it is 100 listed in the past century. As for the number alive today---any idea?


I think those are the numbers for all savants, not only the prodigious ones. And that would be other types of savants, not just Autistic savants. But I am somewhat doubtful the numbers add up - if the occurrence rates in Autism is 10-30% of the Autistic polulation would have savant abilities of some type. Just my thoughts on the subject.



glider18
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24 Feb 2010, 12:03 pm

This has got me most curious now about the numbers. Somewhere I had read that there were 50 prodigious savants alive today, then someplace else said 25. Then another article stated that in the past century of history, they could account for 100 prodigious savants in history---living and deceased. My interpretation is that the 10% to 30% of savants in the autistic population includes the talent and splinter skills types. But---that is only what I have read on the internet.

EquiisSavant---I spent quite awhile looking through your artwork---amazing!! ! Your paintings have life. Thank you for sharing.


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Blindspot149
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24 Feb 2010, 12:23 pm

glider18 wrote:
This has got me most curious now about the numbers. Somewhere I had read that there were 50 prodigious savants alive today.


Hello Glider,

I would tend to agree with your figure of 50.

This is the number Daniel Tammet quotes in chapter 1 of his book 'Embracing the Wide Sky' and I quote;

'There are estimated to be fewer than 50 PRODIGIOUS Savants world wide' (page 28 in my version of the book)

Whatever the actual number is right now as I type this (and as other WP members read this post), prodigious Savant talents are, for me, a thing of pure beauty and I am blessed to have been able to see some of them 'in action' :D


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24 Feb 2010, 1:21 pm

valkyrieraven88 wrote:
Magicfly, those are beautiful. I draw as well. Now I feel the need to share. ^^

Image

Image

I don't think they're as good as yours by any means but it impresses a lot of people who aren't artists. The AP Art class at my high school was very selective. Only 12 people get in each year. I applied but was on the wait list, which normally means you're doomed but someone had to drop it to take another class. I walked in the first day thinking I was hot s*** and the teacher looked at me and said, "I thought you weren't going to be here this year!" I probably needed my ego deflated anyway. I think I'm pretty good--not excellent, especially since I use grids--but I was the least impressive out of the school's art program that year.


Hiya velkyrieraven88!

I'm so glad you shared your beautiful talent in art (I totally forgot to mention in my first post, I would LOVE to see some of your art Spazzergasm!) those are lovely, I love the way you use light and shade (nothing to do with using grids that part!) I never tire of seeing other people's art it gives me great pleasure!

I think Akiane is a true artistic prodigy, she did this painting when she was only 12:
Image

She is just incredible! I don't actually know if she has any developmental problems, but either way I've always seen her abilities as just mindblowing!



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24 Feb 2010, 1:27 pm

All of you have posted incredible art. I draw too but that's not the area of my savantism. I have extreme rote memory skills and was dx'd as hyperlexic (though my hyperlexia was unusual as I had full comprehension). I believe those are a sort of savant skill.

Daniel Tammet is amazing, by the way...I would love to meet him someday. My mom has the same language abilities he has but not the calculation skills at all.


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24 Feb 2010, 1:28 pm

wow, you guys are GOOD. i dont think I'm savant in any way XD I'll have to post some art sometime. the problem is i cant keep to the same thing for long enough. i lose concentration and scribble all over it or just stop.



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24 Feb 2010, 4:33 pm

Glider I really need to get into music. I don't normally bother being visual. ( I'm a spot the pattern type)



Do you have any of your music I could listen to?


I'm listening for something very unique ,it's like signature , it's in the artwork, it's in some of the reasoning in WP and I guess it would be in your music as well . It'll be in the maths as well.

It's a kind of universal.

And I have realized listening to the fan on my mac is probably not as good as listening to most music.



glider18
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24 Feb 2010, 5:10 pm

memesplice wrote:
Glider I really need to get into music. I don't normally bother being visual. ( I'm a spot the pattern type)



Do you have any of your music I could listen to?


I'm listening for something very unique ,it's like signature , it's in the artwork, it's in some of the reasoning in WP and I guess it would be in your music as well . It'll be in the maths as well.

It's a kind of universal.

And I have realized listening to the fan on my mac is probably not as good as listening to most music.


What I can try to do is put something on youtube this weekend. I've actually never done that before, but I have been thinking about it. I do have a digital video recorder. I'll see what I can do.


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EquiisSavant
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25 Feb 2010, 6:02 am

glider18 wrote:
This has got me most curious now about the numbers. Somewhere I had read that there were 50 prodigious savants alive today, then someplace else said 25. Then another article stated that in the past century of history, they could account for 100 prodigious savants in history---living and deceased. My interpretation is that the 10% to 30% of savants in the autistic population includes the talent and splinter skills types. But---that is only what I have read on the internet.

EquiisSavant---I spent quite awhile looking through your artwork---amazing!! ! Your paintings have life. Thank you for sharing.


Thx, glider. I think the articles & claims about how many & what type of savants are conflicting. I don't really think they have ever undertaken to get an actual count. Also, it is my belief there are many more prodigious savants than people may think, whose lives are vastly wasted due to lack of early Autism interventions, funding to develop the savant abilities - or even to discover them, and a very high lack of educated neurologists and neuro-psychiatrists who have extensive savant education and experience / training, thusly, most doctors cant spot a savant because they never heard of it before.

I think much more research needs to be done in this area !

I am a big fan of Tammet, Wawro, Amanda, Clemmons, & Wiltshire. Also, Temple. I wish someday I could go horse riding with Temple and just talk horses & Autistics.



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25 Feb 2010, 6:08 am

Magicfly wrote:
valkyrieraven88 wrote:
Magicfly, those are beautiful. I draw as well. Now I feel the need to share. ^^

Image

Image

I don't think they're as good as yours by any means but it impresses a lot of people who aren't artists. The AP Art class at my high school was very selective. Only 12 people get in each year. I applied but was on the wait list, which normally means you're doomed but someone had to drop it to take another class. I walked in the first day thinking I was hot s*** and the teacher looked at me and said, "I thought you weren't going to be here this year!" I probably needed my ego deflated anyway. I think I'm pretty good--not excellent, especially since I use grids--but I was the least impressive out of the school's art program that year.


Hiya velkyrieraven88!

I'm so glad you shared your beautiful talent in art (I totally forgot to mention in my first post, I would LOVE to see some of your art Spazzergasm!) those are lovely, I love the way you use light and shade (nothing to do with using grids that part!) I never tire of seeing other people's art it gives me great pleasure!

I think Akiane is a true artistic prodigy, she did this painting when she was only 12:
Image

She is just incredible! I don't actually know if she has any developmental problems, but either way I've always seen her abilities as just mindblowing!


Yes, I like this art very much. The last painting IS amazing. I am not a people / human artist. I could NEVER do human artwork this well. Horses, yes. My obsession was always horses, animals, sea and landscapes, outerspace, and caricatures. My art sort of follows my obsessions with what is pleasing to me or I think is highly interesting or unique in some way. My art is emotionally comforting when I am in a place surrounded by it.



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25 Feb 2010, 3:47 pm

Spazzergasm wrote:
How can you tell for sure?


I was wondering the same thing.

I mean I've been playing musical instruments since I was a baby, and I guess I'm an okay musician (I've never needed lessons as long as I have chord charts), but certainly that doesn't qualify me as being a savant?


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25 Feb 2010, 5:24 pm

It's a spectrum, and different professionals put the cutoff at different levels.

On the typical end, you have your basic talent: Someone's good at something; he practices, and he finds it easier to learn than most people do. Eventually, he gets really good.

A little further on, you get people who learn specific things unusually well, unusually early, and with much less practice than expected. These are the folks who are often called "prodigies", or "gifted"; and while their talents are unusual, they aren't anything beyond what a typical person could accomplish, given time to practice. Many of the artists, musicians, mathematicians, and writers on WP would probably be in this group.

Eventually, the skills get more specific, and the differential between the talent and the rest of the person's ability gets larger. Here you'll almost always find diagnosably atypical neurology, and the skills will often be called "splinter skills" or "savant skills". They can also be improved with practice, and used creatively; and they often are, because they tend to tie in with the person's interests. Unusual skills that not too many people have will pop up here, such as perfect pitch, the ability to calculate things rapidly, the ability to memorize things quickly (information or possibly languages), or the ability to copy things like sounds (music or speech, usually) or images (drawing/painting). Once again, most of these skills are trainable by typical people, but come with very little practice to the savant. There are quite a few people here in this category. On the autism spectrum, there seems to be about a one-in-ten rate.

The "prodigious savant" has a highly unusual brain. I've never heard of one that wasn't autistic, developmentally delayed, TBI, epileptic, or some other atypical neurology. The effect is a lot like the more common "splinter skill" type, but the extreme specialization of these folks' brains makes them capable of things that most people could never even learn in the first place, and which are far beyond all of their other skills. Here you'll find things that seem impossible--memorizing entire symphonies after one hearing; reading a book once and quoting it back word for word; drawing something after seeing it once. Usually it'll be obvious in childhood, or else after whatever event changed their brains around. Maybe they'll use it to make a living; maybe it'll just be something cool they can do. Whichever it is, they're rare, and the ones who are willing to help in research may let us learn more about how the human brain works.


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25 Feb 2010, 11:38 pm

I think there may be a rather simple answer to this question.

If you need to ask if a person is a Prodigious Savant................they probably aren't.

If you want to be a little more specific;

How many other people can do what the Savant candidate can do?

For example:

1. Can they do math in their head like Daniel Tammet

2. Can they draw the ENTIRE cityscape of Rome (or any other large city) with almost total perfection after flying over it for a few hours and seeing the city for first time; like Stephen Wiltshire


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Last edited by Blindspot149 on 26 Feb 2010, 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.