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asperges
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28 Feb 2010, 1:02 pm

I used to be a temporary member of a club. Through this club, I made quite a few friends. But before I was able to get a long term membership, the members of the club had to vote me in. That didn't happen.

I'm over that (to an extent). The problem is that when I am on campus at school events or other social events, I can't really sit with my friends that are in the club because, while some people still like me, it is awkward since I'm not in the club anymore.

Sometimes, I will see people that I know that aren't part of this group but I hesitiate to sit with them since I'm not really in their group either.

The most recent example of this problem came up on Friday. I went to a talent show-like performance. I greeted a friend (who wasn't part of the group that I used to be in) with a head nod. I went to do something that I needed to take care of and then came back and started talking to him. I met some of the people that he was talking to when I approached. We then sat down and started eating before the show began. I figured that more people in a group that he was in would show up so I sat a couple of rows behind him. ALONE.

One of the people in the group that I used to be a part of called my name and said hello. I wanted to go and sit with them, but I did that the week before and I got the feeling that I wasn't wanted. Later, the person that I was talking to earlier looked at me. We made eye contact, but I pretended not to see him because I was embarrassed to be sitting alone. Though, I know that he knows that I saw him. Looking back, their were a few empty seats by him and I could/should have sat by him in that case.

But what about in the future? What should I do? On this particular occasion, I ended up leaving the room until just before the show started and then I sat at the top so noone that I know could see me alone. I ended up thinking about the awkwardness of sitting alone before the show during the whole performance. HELP



jagatai
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28 Feb 2010, 3:57 pm

As you get older, people learn to be more polite and will likely call you over to join them. But that doesn't help you now.

I have the same trouble feeling like I am welcome. It still persists even into my 40's and at times it gives me quite a bit of trouble. (That's why I'm reading these forums a lot right now) Maybe here is some advice to myself that might be useful to you as well. When there are friends you would like to be with but they don't immediately invite you over, assume that they have nothing against you and they would actively enjoy your company.

I understand that this is no easy task. You have to remember that the fear you feel is usually wrong. The reality is you are having a bogus fear reaction and you have to talk yourself down from that. I remember many experiences in my life like what you describe. I remember friends from high school who chided me and sometimes made me feel unwanted. I disappeared from their lives for about 25 years and when I reconnected, I was shocked to learn from a couple of them that they had a great deal of respect for me in high school. It would have been nice to know back then!

My point is that even in college, people usually are still not adequately socialized and do not quite know how to behave with politeness and generosity to one another. You must understand that even the NTs have their own anxieties and fear rejection. It is common to behave in a rejecting manner when you fear rejection. You need to tell yourself something that will feel like a lie; that your friends probably want you to come join them. It may feel wrong. Heck, sometimes they don't want you to come over, but I suspect that is the exception, not the rule.

If you can keep reminding yourself that your fears are unfounded as you dive into the pool full of sharks, you may discover that they are really fairly decent sharks and won't bite you too much.

I know this doesn't fix the problem. It requires hard work. I'm not sure I am up to the task of convincing myself other's may enjoy my company, but I'm going to try and I hope you will too.

Good luck.

Lars



asperges
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28 Feb 2010, 8:44 pm

Jagatai,

Thanks for your reply. But when people actually comment about me sitting alone, I tend to not think that it's all in my head. As for the rest of the 160 people that have viewed without replying. I NEED YOUR HELP. BAD. PLEASE REPLY.



jagatai
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01 Mar 2010, 1:24 am

asperges wrote:
when people actually comment about me sitting alone, I tend to not think that it's all in my head.


I'm sorry if I might have offended you. Your statement "I tend to not think that it's all in my head." sounds as if you are offended and I certainly had no intent of doing so.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "when people actually comment about me sitting alone" since you made no mention of others commenting on your sitting alone in your original post. Do you mean to that people are actually suggesting that you SHOULD sit alone or are they commenting on the fact that you sit alone, but do not necessarily express an opinion on the issue one way or the other?

It is entirely possible that if someone comments on your sitting alone, but does not express an opinion, they may be awkwardly implying that you should be more forthcoming and sit with them.

Perhaps you could clarify exactly what others have have said or done as regards your sitting alone and that might help to identify other methods of solving the problem.

Actually one thing that occurred to me that seems absurdly obvious and yet can be difficult to feel comfortable doing is to simply say to the people in the group "Hi, mind if I join in?" This is a lot easier for someone in their 40's to do since usually people at my age have grown out of the habit of willfully hurting others. Usually this should work by the time you are in college. If you are in high school, then it's not so effective, but that is a problem with other people's immaturity, not yours.

Lars



Maranatha
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01 Mar 2010, 3:01 am

I've decided I need somebody to be my wingman.


Realizing there need to be at least 2-3 people in my life who are:

1) Highly extroverted.

2) Know my quirks and my particular social struggles.

3) Can be kind enough to recognize when I need introductions and inclusion in the conversations around me.


I'm not asking for the entire world here, but would (ideally) be asking them to do the very things that extroverts like to do anyway:

1) Introduce me properly to other people.

2) Tell me about something I have in common with the people I just met.

3) Keep conversations interesting and continually asking me and the other people "what do YOU think?"


The art of social give-and-take was NEVER taught to me in school, I'm not sure if kids are just expected to absorb it like sponges or what??? Regardless, I need to catch up on it in whatever ways I can... and I can't see getting a grip on this without the help of other people who are watching out for me.

Anyway, please take what you can from this. It is my current plan of action and am hoping for the best.



asperges
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05 Mar 2010, 7:51 pm

I wasn't offended. Just saying that there was a reason for my feeling strange.

As to the comments that people make, they are along the line of (in not so many words) "You know that it is socially unacceptable to sit alone. You look like you have no friends. I am not making an offer to sit with you (though I wouldn't complain if you did), however, your behavior is inappropriate."

People aren't that explicit, but that's what they mean.

I will soon go to another school event so if you know of any tips that would help, please send them my way. I will have access to the internet on my phone at the event.



gemstone123
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06 Mar 2010, 6:32 am

I'm no expert on this but perhaps people are getting the vibes from you. That's what people always tell me anyway as I am very isolated. If you know someone and consider them a friend I'm sure they won't mind you sitting near them even if they are among a group of other people. They may even include you.
Next time your at another event and a friend acknowledges you maybe you should, instead of trying to hide the fact that you're sitting alone, which a lot of people don't care about. You should sit nearer to them if there's space and they're on their own and strike up a conversation.
Again I'm no expert on this so feel free to ignore this advice. :lol:


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asperges
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06 Mar 2010, 1:49 pm

I've tried that method as well. The problem with that is even though I am sitting physically close another person or people, I might as well be a million miles away. When people are talking in groups of 3 or more, I seem to get lost in the midst of the conversation.



allennorde
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06 Mar 2010, 2:13 pm

Hello Asperges. I'm 67 years old. Allow me to share some conclusions.

Nothing in this world is ignored or alone because everything is one...you. You create two, three...me. Reality defined as thought, energy, experience, matter and objects are willfully created by your sentient consciousness. Time. distance. motion, change and choice are created illusion. Light and the universe originate from you. You are much greater than the outline of your body.

I present these ideas to you Asperges not for you to believe or disbelieve but for you to accept or not accept as alternative perceptions or realities.

If you opt for non-acceptance Asperges your denial will illustrate how constrained, restricted and bound you are to the way you currently look at yourself and your surroundings. And you suffer. Peace be unto you Asperges.


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Last edited by allennorde on 07 Mar 2010, 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ad2009
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06 Mar 2010, 8:27 pm

sounds like either you're a hippy or you took philosophy with a really bad professor.



hartzofspace
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07 Mar 2010, 9:41 pm

ad2009 wrote:
sounds like either you're a hippy or you took philosophy with a really bad professor.

:lol:


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LukeInFlames
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08 Mar 2010, 12:43 am

Maranatha wrote:
I've decided I need somebody to be my wingman.


Realizing there need to be at least 2-3 people in my life who are:

1) Highly extroverted.

2) Know my quirks and my particular social struggles.

3) Can be kind enough to recognize when I need introductions and inclusion in the conversations around me.


I'm not asking for the entire world here, but would (ideally) be asking them to do the very things that extroverts like to do anyway:

1) Introduce me properly to other people.

2) Tell me about something I have in common with the people I just met.

3) Keep conversations interesting and continually asking me and the other people "what do YOU think?"


The art of social give-and-take was NEVER taught to me in school, I'm not sure if kids are just expected to absorb it like sponges or what??? Regardless, I need to catch up on it in whatever ways I can... and I can't see getting a grip on this without the help of other people who are watching out for me.

Anyway, please take what you can from this. It is my current plan of action and am hoping for the best.


actually, that does sound like a tall order - do you want to hire some kind of social butler? it's a pretty heavy-duty task list there.

As for social give-and-take... kids kinda are supposed to absorb it like sponges - a combination of social training through school, interaction with peers, mimicry of adults and explicit training by their parents. (unfortunately the tradition of the latter seems to be not so popular today as it should be...) a fancy terminology for the process would be 'cultural socialisation'.

my 2 cents,

-Luke



LukeInFlames
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08 Mar 2010, 12:44 am

hartzofspace wrote:
ad2009 wrote:
sounds like either you're a hippy or you took philosophy with a really bad professor.

:lol:


yeah that's weird. he's posting much the same thing in a few different places, and AFAICT, it doesn't make any sense.

-Luke



Maranatha
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08 Mar 2010, 1:02 am

LukeInFlames wrote:
actually, that does sound like a tall order - do you want to hire some kind of social butler? it's a pretty heavy-duty task list there.


Heh, almost as if. :)

Seriously though, I have gotten along extremely well with the certain extroverted people.

Am reading a pretty good book on social etiquette right now, surprising how much of the basic etiquette involves making others feel welcome and interested -- not something I have any talent in, but I think certain people do thrive in this area.

I guess I'll cut my losses and not expect a social butler, but will settle for a sympathetic friend or two.



allennorde
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08 Mar 2010, 4:19 pm

LukeInFlames wrote:
hartzofspace wrote:
ad2009 wrote:
sounds like either you're a hippy or you took philosophy with a really bad professor.

:lol:


yeah that's weird. he's posting much the same thing in a few different places, and AFAICT, it doesn't make any sense.

-Luke


Actually gentlemen if you're curious. the sense it makes, and the string of logic it follows can be found by reading the "Einstein Metaphysics: A Unified Field Theory & The Secret Of Life" by using the search button. I hope you enjoy it. Peace be unto both of you.


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Everything is One...You.
You create two, three...me.
You are much greater than the outline of your body.