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roguetech
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17 Mar 2010, 2:29 pm

Tthe idea that it evolved as the next step is rediculious since it is uncommon, and therefore less likely to be passed on. However, since "survival of the fittest" is out, societal pressures could, in theory, make it predominant. But society would have to advance to the point where ASD traits equals greater reproduction



pandd
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18 Mar 2010, 1:14 am

roguetech wrote:
Tthe idea that it evolved as the next step is rediculious since it is uncommon, and therefore less likely to be passed on.

That's probably how most variations (including those that go onto predominate) start out.

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However, since "survival of the fittest" is out, societal pressures could, in theory, make it predominant. But society would have to advance to the point where ASD traits equals greater reproduction

"Survival of the fittest" has always been somewhat misleading. Survival of the "fit enough" better presents the reality and it is as true now as it has always been.



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19 Mar 2010, 9:12 am

I once read that the same gene that resists cancer is linked to autism. I have noticed that my friends with ASD have grandparents who died with cancer, but not parents. I have never heard of an autie getting cancer, but I am terrible at google searches, so don't mind that last statement too much. If for some reason cancer was less common in ASD people, what would that mean for everyone?


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lumlock
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19 Mar 2010, 8:21 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X27slFlR9CE[/youtube]

Check him out, I just happened to find him when I had a combined search with mayans and aspergers syndrome, I think he has a strong point. :)



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20 Mar 2010, 4:40 am

Kid in video is almost there. All he has to do is make one big leap. You preempt a population via religion for a few thousand years with the apocalyptic memes then this is where their collective action leads. They will not be aware of what they are doing. Those little memetic brain-lighter-uppers will give them what feels like a religious experience every time an individual's role in the global complex interaction is completed. It concatenates across nations, self synchonizes. They can not accept that this is simply nature's solution to over population. Its a culling instinct dressed up in philosophy ,religion, geopolitics, economic theory etc.- keep them blind to it by whatever means and they will cull.

We stand back, start reasoning this through. They lack this capacity to objectify the process they are caught up in. The meek is simply a rule of thumb calculation of outcome of competing evolutionary strategy. It was abstracted and expressed in religious language. When its got the power of something that is experienced as religion it becomes a directive, like a bit of software code running the consciousness of those creating the mass behavior.

Imagine if you could demonstrate this set of apocalyptic memes actually has a mathematical base, show how it triggers of aspects of consciousness. Would you give that to NT's? I bloody well wouldn't.



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20 Mar 2010, 8:25 am

I don't have speakers, but I do push the apocalyptic.

The current all and everything is a fluke, an event caused by odd weather patterns over the last 500 years. In the 500 before the Little Ice Age lead to the waves of Black Death, crop failure, Vikings coming south, and Crusades to dispose of excess population.

A few degrees cooler, we will be back to normal, after the die off.

Nothing I like better than reporting a coming wind storm to those living in a house of cards.

It makes the choice between a Democrat, or a Republican, the Tweedlide, Tweedledum choice it is.

Betting on human failure is as close as it gets to a sure thing.

it is the story of four people in a boat that flips, they are strong, healthy, they hang on to the keel, and over one night three just let go and sink. Most just give up and die.

They are already on the edge, disasters lead to people killing themselves, or each other.

A failure of "Leadership," a population die off.

I am in favor of it.



lumlock
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20 Mar 2010, 4:05 pm

memesplice wrote:
Kid in video is almost there. All he has to do is make one big leap. You preempt a population via religion for a few thousand years with the apocalyptic memes then this is where their collective action leads. They will not be aware of what they are doing. Those little memetic brain-lighter-uppers will give them what feels like a religious experience every time an individual's role in the global complex interaction is completed. It concatenates across nations, self synchonizes. They can not accept that this is simply nature's solution to over population. Its a culling instinct dressed up in philosophy ,religion, geopolitics, economic theory etc.- keep them blind to it by whatever means and they will cull.

We stand back, start reasoning this through. They lack this capacity to objectify the process they are caught up in. The meek is simply a rule of thumb calculation of outcome of competing evolutionary strategy. It was abstracted and expressed in religious language. When its got the power of something that is experienced as religion it becomes a directive, like a bit of software code running the consciousness of those creating the mass behavior.

Imagine if you could demonstrate this set of apocalyptic memes actually has a mathematical base, show how it triggers of aspects of consciousness. Would you give that to NT's? I bloody well wouldn't.


I'm sorry for not understanding what you have to say, can you make your post some what simpler to understand?



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20 Mar 2010, 11:21 pm

fidelis wrote:
I once read that the same gene that resists cancer is linked to autism. I have noticed that my friends with ASD have grandparents who died with cancer, but not parents. I have never heard of an autie getting cancer, but I am terrible at google searches, so don't mind that last statement too much. If for some reason cancer was less common in ASD people, what would that mean for everyone?


My dad is autistic and has had cancer. So now you've heard of it.


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kia_williams
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21 Mar 2010, 6:42 am

Honest simple answer, Fear and Arrogance.

The very notion of genetic diversity from the norm is so unthinkable, the idea that normal humans aren't already "perfected" genetically speaking is so "out there" and uncomfortable, is exactly why the first white people to meet an aboriginal IMMEDIATELY assumed they we're not human and we entered the [sarcasm] wonderful time [/sarcasm] of Slavery.

Sorry to disappoint the more scientifically minded of us, but "evolution" and the naturally occuring genetic mutations that enables this process, does not EVER stop except with the complete cessation of that species, but then it carries on in other species, humans ARE and HAVE been evolving, but you are looking from a 90 year life span at a process that works on the microscopic tens of thousands+ years scale, the minor genetic variations in humans that can have multiple "symptoms" but CANNOT be traced to environmental causes (radiation damage/certain toxins) are a result of this slow ongoing often unnoticed process, it has been over ten thousand years since the last Notable evolution of homo spaiens, what? you thought it just stopped cause we rock? heh, no. a number of untraceable (cause wise anyway) birth defects are /possibly/ the result of nature doing what it does, Trying new things by mutating old working systems, some will be, some wont be, but we're easily due a very minor alteration/evolution by now and its possibly happening where we are just not seeing.

RE: Aspie's and evolution, Eee well im about to disappoint some people..

Q&A about Two studies conducted by researchers at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia link specific genes to autism. wrote:
..Most of the copy number variants we have identified that predispose to autism are inherited and it's therefore likely they have been present for some time. [It's] difficult to say how long, but they were transmitted through the parents. The variant we detected at the 5p14 locus (common variant) has been present for a long time in the genome (most likely since man moved out of Africa)...[and that means]it is regulating gene expression and gene function.

source:autism.about.com/od/geneticsandautism/a/chopautism.htm

according to this research genes contributing to autism have potentially been around as early as the dawn of the human species, which would mean we are NOT actually defective, but nor are we the "next step" in evolution, further evidence may show, that just like it turned out the aboriginals (workable example) we're infact human and just very slightly differently evolved (adaptation to environment) that we are just another of the "races"/"branches" of humanity, except we've stayed hidden and our difference has NOT been as visually obvious.

it seems we may be no more supreme than any deluded white/black supremacist and no more evolved than any other race of the human species.



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21 Mar 2010, 5:18 pm

kia_williams wrote:
Sorry to disappoint the more scientifically minded of us, but "evolution" and the naturally occuring genetic mutations that enables this process, does not EVER stop except with the complete cessation of that species,

Being more interested in evolution and evolutonary processes is likely to result in one already knowing this (or at least it should). I have no idea to what extent my mind is scientific, but I certainly know that the processes of evolution continue unabated. I really cannot understand how or why anyone interested in evolution would conclude otherwise.
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according to this research genes contributing to autism have potentially been around as early as the dawn of the human species, which would mean we are NOT actually defective,

It would not necessarily mean any such thing.
Quote:
but nor are we the "next step" in evolution, further evidence may show, that just like it turned out the aboriginals (workable example) we're infact human and just very slightly differently evolved (adaptation to environment) that we are just another of the "races"/"branches" of humanity, except we've stayed hidden and our difference has NOT been as visually obvious.

That makes as much sense as describing being blue eyed as being a different race/branch of humanity. It's complete nonsense in my view. What precisely in the environment do you imagine this difference is "adapated" to?



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24 Mar 2010, 5:49 pm

If we all moved to Alaska, then we are guaranteed representation in the U.S. government on a federal level. It's a long shot, but it may work. There is also the possibility of choosing a random country, having EVERY autistic individual capable of the travel move there, and by numbers alone, get everyone else to move out. I think it's a very bad idea, but it sounds like some of this sites users would like it. :roll: I personally don't mind the Alaska idea, though it does have the U.S. immigration laws set against it.


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pensieve
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28 Mar 2010, 1:39 am

Because putting yourself above a certain group of people is just arrogance and I'll have no part of that.
I've also heard people talk about ADHD and dyslexia as the next step in evolution.
You've got some competition there, aspies. :wink:


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memesplice
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28 Mar 2010, 4:42 am

Pensive- my money's on the Hard-AI Transhumanists , in the long term ( they are just a bit batty at the moment, it's seriously good idea though). Might take a more than a few Aspies to figure out how to integrate various fields.



omicron
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28 Mar 2010, 1:01 pm

pensieve wrote:
Because putting yourself above a certain group of people is just arrogance and I'll have no part of that.
I've also heard people talk about ADHD and dyslexia as the next step in evolution.
You've got some competition there, aspies. :wink:


Arrogance? Thats being politically correct, its not a valid argument. In evolutionary terms, beater is only in relation to the environment. We drastically changed our environment, so its quite certain we will evolve in some proportionally drastic way. The genes, that will become the norm in the future, alredy exist in very small proportions in the population. What these genes will be its up for debate.

NT genes are almost certainly not the future norm, almost by definition of evolution. At the very list, you have to admit this last point. Are you saying that evolution has finished with us? Theres nothing else to do? At the very list, you have to admit that some unknown contemporary group of people are "above" NTs. Almost by definition of evolution, otherwise you don't have evolution.

Note: ADHD, dyslexia and aspiness are not mutually exclusive.



omicron
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28 Mar 2010, 1:42 pm

memesplice wrote:
Pensive- my money's on the Hard-AI Transhumanists , in the long term ( they are just a bit batty at the moment, it's seriously good idea though). Might take a more than a few Aspies to figure out how to integrate various fields.


:D I'm betting against you (your jocking right?)

transhumanism in any form can't replace evolution.

transhumanism is overly hyped science.