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Jingo8
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08 Mar 2010, 9:06 am

This could be a very interesting topic for me. I've never been quite sure how i process my thoughts. A specific course i was on covered different types of thinkers, most people are either visual (they see the pictures) or auditory (they hear the words and speak out their thoughts, in their mind or out loud). Very few people can smell or touch their thoughts, these are basically freaks by everyone elses standards lol.

I was the only one on the course who couldn't really decide or work out what i was, the tutor couldn't work me out either but put me down as visual becuase i *can* visualise, even though i don't.

It's hard to explain, just as everyone posting has said it's hard to think of another way of thinking. The best i can come up with is I think in facts, which doesn't cover the sensory angle.

Quoting from earlier

Quote:
I find the concept of thoughts not in pictures very difficult to understand, but all my senses seem to give me pictures in my head....


I rarely see pictures in my head, but i do sometimes have a sort of table or whiteboard where i move thoughts around, usually when i'm explaining things to other people, so i'm not sure if it's genuinely my thoughts or just a tool for translating them for others. Think tom cruise in minority report.

Quote:
Words... For example, if I write the sentence, 'a red ball bounces on the tarmac', I see a red ball bouncing on tarmac in my mind, instantly, as I read the words...


When i read "a red ball bounces on the tarmac" i aknowleged it as a fact, ok so there is a red ball and it is bouncing on some tarmac, got it. That's all that happened in my mind, it was added to a temporary knowlege pool relative to this post or thread or whatever. When i then read "I see a red ball bouncing on tarmac in my mind" i actually projected a red ball in my mind bouncing, i don't think there was any tarmac to be honest. I was playing with the information, you said you saw it so i tried to see if i could see it, and i did, this gave me new information and understanding. The seeing was based on coping your reaction, rather than my own reaction.

Quote:
If I smell orange, I see oranges,


I aknowlege the orange smell and consider its source, it is a geniune smell or artificial, who is around me, does someone have an orange, or orange smelling food/drink, could the small be related to purfume or cleaning products, do i mind the smell, is it bothering me? I've not seen any oranges in all of this, i wouldn't know what size or type of orange to see, it could be one of those big solid perfectly round ones, or the smaller squishy pumpkin shaped ones. Naturally during all this i'm doing no work and completely lost track of what i was doing, thanks ADHD.

Quote:
if I hear change jangle in someone's pocket, I see coins in my mind, it just happens without any effort, all senses/thoughts relate back into visual concepts.


If it was the first sound i heard, i would consider that someone is coming and decide if i was going to look up to see who it is, if i already knew who it was (ie someone walked past a minute ago and i knew they would be coming back), was i expecting someone, did i need to speak to someone and so check if it was him. I may then get back on track of coins, but unlikely, the coins themself have little interest to me, the fact someone is jangling coins isn't likely to effect anything or signify anything so it's unlikely to be worth considering. It may be a reflecting that they are on their way to the vending machine or that they don't carry a hankerchief (it would stop them jangling). I certainly wouldn't see any coins, what type would they be? i don't know what coins he has and i've not seen them yet so i can't visualise them, they are just coins at this point, that is a safe assumption becuase coins sound different to washers and something like tokens is fairly unlikely as they're not used here. If i was somewhere else i may consider simply that there's something coin/token like in his pocket, if tokens where relevent to that place.

Quote:
I can't visualise mathematics at all though, all I see in my mind are the numbers as they are written down (same with symbols for maths etc) and I can't seem to expand it beyond that....


I really don't know how i do mathmatics, other than a mix of rote memory and sense checking. I don't know what 513 x 923 is without doing a full calculation on it or using excel/calculator, but i know it's something just under 500k, it's defo not as low as 450k, almost certainly not 460 or 490, maybe 470-480k. That's all sense checking based on previously learnt facts, to do any more i have to do part calculations (923x500 or 900x513) or do the whole thing properly. So i either use my knowlege of the correct mathmatical formula, or i reference learnt facts to narrow down the likely answer.



pascalflower
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08 Mar 2010, 10:16 am

Ambivalence wrote:
I couldn't draw a picture of anyone in my family, for instance. :? I can draw good maps from memory, though. Don't ask me how that works! :roll:


I'm like this. I'm not a bad drawer. I can draw someone if they are in front of me, but if I just turn my back, I would have a hard type getting their hairstyle correct in my mind. Now that I really think about it, I think I almost never think or see pictures in my mind. Either pure thoughts or sometimes a slightly auditory (but even then it's never the exact same auditory thing, like when I remember a song, I remember the softness of the singers voice, or a particular vocal sound, I lock on to that, and sometimes maybe a hour later, I finally remember the words to the song, but all along, I had a particular feel of the sound but not the sound itself.)

Like you too, I can easily draw a map from memory. I can not draw faces or objects from memory, but schematics like maps are easy. When I used to work at a plant, for my presentation I would redraw the entire plant schematically from memory, and even know the numerical code for most of the sensors and their computer codes. I can memorize maps and schematics, and think about them, but actual faces, people and objects are too hard.


OK, if you guys only think visually how do you guys understand the following CONCEPTS:

1) Rim of the World
---Its not a rim nor is it the whole world, and it's not the physical city of Rim of the World, California which I have visited. It's a pure concept.

2) Infinity
--- The largest possible number, but it's not a quantity, its purely a concept

3) Time stand still
--- a figure of speech, that should not be interpreted literally. How do you understand this phrase

4) an infinitesimal point in space
--- mathematically, one of the most important concepts in order to fully understand mathematics beyond arithmetic

5) sweet as pie
--- Can you read that phrase without seeing a pie or tasting sweet, but still understand it's figurative meaning?



Pointless
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08 Mar 2010, 10:57 am

I understand all of them as they are meant, but I still got a picture of it in my head. I don´t think only visual, plus imho this isn´t possible in any way, thoughts are too complex.

1) Can´t answer it, do you mean something like the end of the world or like the edge or the border? Sorry, english isn´t my first language, I don´t understand this. So I just have the picture of "Rim of the World" in words.

2) Actually I got a picture of a bun called infinity bun.

3) I got the picture of a clock with both hands on stopped on twelve.

4) A pie with rasperrys standing on a table with a blue and white checked table cloth.


Maybe this is just association. But when I read the sentence "If I smell orange, I see oranges[...]" a picture of an orange appeared, not the smell, the taste, a memory, or the word, just a picture, before I even knew what the sentence was about.

So I think in.. hmm, normal thoughts and pictures?
I don´t know, thoughts are very complicated, and for me it is unbeliviable that everyone else is actually thinking, too.



Klint
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08 Mar 2010, 12:43 pm

Yes, I think in pictures all the time. I could get into specifics on how, but I need to think of how to describe it first, since It's never been something I gave much thought before... :?



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08 Mar 2010, 12:57 pm

I've been thinking in pictures, my whole life. I've always have, and I always will think in pictures. I have a very hard time, thinking in words, as words don't come naturally to me.


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KansasFound
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08 Mar 2010, 1:39 pm

Like other comments, I can't even imagine what it's like to not think the way I do. My memory is very much like a movie that can be played from any point. I know my concept of time is different from others as everything is as if it occured in the past 5 minutes. this can lead to some interesting conversations when I remember something videographically and a family member debates me on it.

I am curious though, throughout my memories I can remember everything in vivd detail, such as when the Space Shuttle Challenger accident occured when I was 3, but when it comes to people I remember nothing. I can recall a person, but it's like a undercover news show where the faces are blurred out. does anyone else experience this?



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08 Mar 2010, 1:51 pm

I do. I remember ads in tv, places, movies... but not people.

I think in pictures, they are connected to thought and tagged, I call them Thoughtpictures. Tags make sometimes strange thoughts-way, mind-map or how to call it :D They are made of things I've seen before and language doesn't matter. As I wrote in other thread I write "only for Polish", I see poster "nur für Deutsche".

I have photographic memory, today I said to teacher wait a moment, I have to upload my notes from last week... ok, I see them... so if distribution, this is... written in red, ok, I see... it is this-and-that...


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sarah876
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08 Mar 2010, 2:32 pm

My son was recently diagnosed with Asperger's just wanted to say that I think in pictures and my son first thinks in words then in pictures.



Magicfly
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08 Mar 2010, 2:59 pm

Ambivalence wrote:

OK, if you guys only think visually how do you guys understand the following CONCEPTS:

1) Rim of the World
---Its not a rim nor is it the whole world, and it's not the physical city of Rim of the World, California which I have visited. It's a pure concept.


Well, I read 'rim of the world' and instantly saw a view of earth from space, with particular focus on the upper atmosphere, but I get confused when I read the description, because for me, the concept of a rim is a constant focus within an object, eg, with a cup, all parts of the cup either directly or indirectly connect to the rim, a rim is an edge that marks the end of 1 object and the beginning of something else, so it's difficult for me to understand a' rim of the world' which does not refer to the whole world. (it's hard to explain, apologies!)


Quote:
2) Infinity
--- The largest possible number, but it's not a quantity, its purely a concept


Growth into blackness, the way I understand it is that the largest possible number is constantly growing larger, so space has to grow to accomodate it. I don't see what it's growing into, I'm seeing this from a point inside the place where that infinate number is growing. (this is even harder to explain!!)

Quote:
3) Time stand still
--- a figure of speech, that should not be interpreted literally. How do you understand this phrase


It's a bit cheesy Hollywood.....but, my conciousness looking at time in freeze-frame, but this one can depend on context, eg, you can use the expression 'time stands still' to denote boredom at work, (that would be a different image. In that case I'd look around at what I was seeing currently, and compare it to the snapshot in my head of the same place to compare how much time had passed, and in that moment seeing little changes between the memory and the current, would feel the sense of 'time standing still' though as a concept it means there is no change between the 2 images) or this:

'When you enter the cathedral and look around it's 15th century interior, you feel as if time stands still this context gives me the freeze-frame thing, I can step out of current time, and imagine/see how it would have looked in the 15th century, my mental screen can correct the little things, like the worn parts on the steps and floor tiles, replace the modern electrical lights with soft-candles, and let me kind-of see it as it was.....

Quote:
4) an infinitesimal point in space
--- mathematically, one of the most important concepts in order to fully understand mathematics beyond arithmetic


It's kinda big actually...what I mean is, my conciousness has to become smaller than what I'm looking at to be able to see it and understand it, but what I see are lots of spheres that are in blackness, but they are not black, some are kind of yellow, and some are kind of blue, translucent, kind of like electric, thing is, it's not really at the point of matter anymore, it's visible but it's more like energy.....

Quote:
5) sweet as pie
--- Can you read that phrase without seeing a pie or tasting sweet, but still understand it's figurative meaning?


Yes I do see pie. :oops: But I have to see the pie first to compare the sweetness if that makes sense.....I see pie, but I also understand what I'm looking at beyond seeing it, I know that pie is a sweet thing that most people like...so if something or someone is called 'sweet as pie' it means a good thing, and not that they taste nice, unless the reference is to food, in which case it does mean sweet as in taste.



DrewMack
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08 Mar 2010, 3:06 pm

I think in pictures, and 3D spatial spaces. While I only have a semi-photographic memory. I can remember where things or parts are in a book by it physical space in the book. I can't remember word for word, but where particular information is in a book, then yes. If I need to remember your name, I have to associate a picture with your name. Once I've done that, I can remember who you are. Also once I’ve been inside a building, or structure, I can remembered the 3D visual space in detail, and rotate it in a 3D style like it's a model, or fly through it.



psychohist
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08 Mar 2010, 3:39 pm

I think by visualizing things. I would have said I think in "pictures" but it's not the literal kind of pictures that pascalflower seems to have in mind. Rather, it's more of an abstract visualization or diagram. There is no "program" pulling pictures across my mind's eye; the visualizations are the program.

I'm constantly amazed when people ask, "how can you think other than in words?" To me, words are merely a method of communicating finished thoughts. The actual thinking process has little to do with words - for me. I don't understand what it means just to think in words, as they insist that they do.

Edit: my concepts of the five phrases pascalflower mentions actually are pretty much pictures - discworld edge on, etc. It's more complex ideas, such as how a computer program works, that are more visulaizations than concrete pictures.



Last edited by psychohist on 08 Mar 2010, 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

pensieve
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08 Mar 2010, 4:23 pm

pascalflower wrote:
Ambivalence wrote:
I couldn't draw a picture of anyone in my family, for instance. :? I can draw good maps from memory, though. Don't ask me how that works! :roll:


I'm like this. I'm not a bad drawer. I can draw someone if they are in front of me, but if I just turn my back, I would have a hard type getting their hairstyle correct in my mind. Now that I really think about it, I think I almost never think or see pictures in my mind.

I like to do a little exercise where I think of some object in my mind and try to draw it from memory. It doesn't always stay in my mind. It's like a bad reception TV, that I have to keep fine tuning. But I find I can draw with much more detail this way. Other times I try to think without visualising and it will not be as detailed and often not to scale.

pascalflower wrote:
OK, if you guys only think visually how do you guys understand the following CONCEPTS:

1) Rim of the World
---Its not a rim nor is it the whole world, and it's not the physical city of Rim of the World, California which I have visited. It's a pure concept.

2) Infinity
--- The largest possible number, but it's not a quantity, its purely a concept

3) Time stand still
--- a figure of speech, that should not be interpreted literally. How do you understand this phrase

4) an infinitesimal point in space
--- mathematically, one of the most important concepts in order to fully understand mathematics beyond arithmetic

5) sweet as pie
--- Can you read that phrase without seeing a pie or tasting sweet, but still understand it's figurative meaning?


1. A corner of the globe. I'm not exactly sure what 'rim' means.
2. I see a line of numbers, that I can only guess as time ticking by in years, months, days, weeks, hours, seconds.
3. It takes me back to that time traveling episode of Ben 10 when they're standing on the moon in a different reality. Or something like suspended animation. An actual freeze frame of a scene.
4. Mind blank. Well I see a dot, that's it.
5. An actual pie, cherry/apple, with some sort of powder/cinnamon crust...mmm.


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08 Mar 2010, 4:38 pm

1. Like Discworld :D
2. Endless gray tunnel
3. Stop-picture, still-scene or how to call it :D yellow room with people stopped, one of them has her hands up and looks somewhat like me
4. Black dot on white space
5. Horribly sweet pie I bought in McDonald's 15 years ago. First and last time.


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08 Mar 2010, 5:16 pm

Our son responds very well to pictures. That's why we use the Sclera pictures a lot (www.Sclera.be) they are great for visualizing tasks. First we used Word to make picto sheets, later on i created a windows application to do this.

Personally i have trouble putting things in a time table without using a agenda. But most of the time i internal monologue and not pictures.


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08 Mar 2010, 6:34 pm

1) Rim of the World
Like Discworld, a flat world with an edge. The entire world is visualized, but only the rim counts. If there's some other meaning to the phrase I'm unaware of it.

2) Infinity
A line seen from inside, going on forever. It's translucent white.

3) Time stand still
That nothing happened. Still picture of now.

4) an infinitesimal point in space
A point that's so small, you can't see it no matter how far you zoom in. Zooming in on something I know is there but can't see.

5) sweet as pie
--- Can you read that phrase without seeing a pie or tasting sweet, but still understand it's figurative meaning?
Nope.



psychohist
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08 Mar 2010, 7:34 pm

pascalflower wrote:
5) sweet as pie
--- Can you read that phrase without seeing a pie or tasting sweet, but still understand it's figurative meaning?

I don't picture a pie or taste sweet, but I do kind of see or feel a smile for that one.