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MONKEY
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20 Mar 2010, 12:53 pm

I have 6 friends. I am close to all of them but I don't see them often enough. I met with one of them today and I haven't seen him since Februrary, it was about time I caught up with him.


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21 Mar 2010, 11:09 am

I don't have a lot of friends but I have met people through volunteering. Volunteering made me very anxious at first (and still does) cause I mostly went alone. Sometimes I sign up for things and then don't show up sometimes. But sometimes I manage to show up and when I do it's usually really positive. I usually show up when I know i'll see some familar faces.



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24 Mar 2010, 7:48 am

I have three good friends. They're nice enough, and I get along with them well, I could do without friends though, as I noticed on my 6 week break where I spoke to nobody who wasn't family.



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24 Mar 2010, 5:52 pm

have only 1 good friend, i suspect he may have AS as hes almost exactly the same as me.
have quite a few acquaintances who will consider themselves my friends but its way too stressfull talking to them and worrying that i'll say the wrong thing, i doubt i'll know any of them in 10 years, 1 friend is enough though!
i am only 18 though so...



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25 Mar 2010, 12:40 pm

To have or not to have friends... 'that' is the question. Whether tis nobler to... well, simply, I have no friends - this be my own choice. Some folks would call this being 'unfriendly' as twere. Correct if as to # of friends being 0 said indicates 'un', incorrect as to said implying demeanor per se.

I have since youth, enjoyed doing things either solo or with a very small # of people involved. In truth, more so that people are seen as/used? as 'props' of a sort. They serve a purpose if you will, means to an end. Like playing baseball: one can't pitch, hit & also catch the ball as well by themself as one can with another 1 or 2 folks particpating. I treat others as I wish to be treated: courteous without being overly familiar, kind without being clingy.

For example, I always enjoyed watching TV alone so that I could concetrate on what I was watching; for me, other folks (talking, etc.) take away from the enjoyment said. Likewise when growing up I never felt lonely even when by myself; at worst, as long as someone was say in the home - even all the way across it on the other side - I was happy as I 'knew' I was not alone (security.) Not so much a need to see or even hear people, just the knowledge of someone else being in the general vicinity was enough to assuage any childhood concerns or fears being alone as it were. Today, I don't even need that type of company from afar.

So, why am I here: on Earth or more specifically this forum? To edify as well glean, but mostly because as the late comedian Myron Cohen said, "well, everybody's got to be someplace."

Good luck to you - all of you - in your pursuit friends if that be your reward.



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25 Mar 2010, 1:46 pm

IWishIWasCioran wrote:
Likewise when growing up I never felt lonely even when by myself; at worst, as long as someone was say in the home - even all the way across it on the other side - I was happy as I 'knew' I was not alone (security.) Not so much a need to see or even hear people, just the knowledge of someone else being in the general vicinity was enough to assuage any childhood concerns or fears being alone as it were.


This has actually been my main reason to pursue a girlfriend. It wasn't the sense of companionship (that you also get with friends), it wasn't the sex (that you can also get from one night stands) and it wasn't the sense of connection (that you can get with friends as well) but it was the fact that there's always someone around, so you don't feel all lonely.

How did you manage to get lose that need? It never worked for me, at least not until my recent cure.



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25 Mar 2010, 2:51 pm

"How did you manage to get lose that need?"

- merely by growing up or maturing some would say; perhaps, although maturity - or a lack thereof - has nothing to do with it my purview one way or the other. Rather, I personally grant that human beings doth disappoint me greatly for the most part & this acrid acquired taste has but become more certain as life has unfolded (via mine own experiences yes, but too, as much or more via the kaleidascope of life & lot of mankind in general as witnessed via obseravtion it/others.)

I consider it a gift actually & myself as fortunate, rather than my lack(ing) of 'something' (anything.) As Sammy Davis Jr. sang: 'I gotta be me, I gotta be me, what else can I be but what I am?"


"It never worked for me, at least not until my recent cure."

- re: your 'cure', I can only wish you well with it, that being the device your choice and/or answer to being 'normal', whatever that means to any of us individually. Speaking for myself I've always enjoyed the company 'things' and domesticated canidae - even jackals - more so than suffering humanity, other than in short, measured doses the latter. As such, pursue relationships with that which & to where my heart leads me. Narcissistic? If so, satisfying. This forum as our current post topic in particular pleases me to partake in/of; if other(s) herein consider said same, so be it. If not, no one is bound to linger here & suffer.

I suppose that it boils down to is this: each of us shares much in common as human beings generally speaking, but conversely what makes us 'tick' (our inner workings) is (case by case basis) as distinct as a wristwatch be from psychology. Some of us are Timex, others sundial.



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25 Mar 2010, 5:03 pm

IWishIWasCioran wrote:
"How did you manage to get lose that need?"

- merely by growing up or maturing some would say; perhaps, although maturity - or a lack thereof - has nothing to do with it my purview one way or the other. Rather, I personally grant that human beings doth disappoint me greatly for the most part & this acrid acquired taste has but become more certain as life has unfolded (via mine own experiences yes, but too, as much or more via the kaleidascope of life & lot of mankind in general as witnessed via obseravtion it/others.)


I tried to be satisfied with living alone, but it just didn't work out. There was always something missing. Now I know it was a sufficient level of dopamine.

IWishIWasCioran wrote:
I consider it a gift actually & myself as fortunate, rather than my lack(ing) of 'something' (anything.) As Sammy Davis Jr. sang: 'I gotta be me, I gotta be me, what else can I be but what I am?"


So did I... until I got cured. Now I realise what I missed all these years and I feel like I've led the life of a robot instead of a human.

IWishIWasCioran wrote:
"It never worked for me, at least not until my recent cure."

- re: your 'cure', I can only wish you well with it, that being the device your choice and/or answer to being 'normal', whatever that means to any of us individually.


With "cured" I mean that I no longer have any symptoms of Asperger's Syndrome. It changed my life completely and it feels like I'm reborn. For the first time in my life, things come naturally to me without having to think about it which leaves a feeling of clarity and quietude I couldn't imagine before. For the first time I understand what makes a sunny day so more interesting than a rainy day, for the first time I understand why so many people like to go clubbing every week, for the first time I'm actually able to make people appreciate my for my personallity instead of my intellect, etc.

IWishIWasCioran wrote:
Speaking for myself I've always enjoyed the company 'things' and domesticated canidae - even jackals - more so than suffering humanity, other than in short, measured doses the latter.


I have always been able to appreciate the company of a small openminded intellectual minority, but other than that I recognise your sentiment. I'm not sure if I'm now more able to appreciate humans than I was before, but I do most definitely understand them better.

IWishIWasCioran wrote:
I suppose that it boils down to is this: each of us shares much in common as human beings generally speaking, but conversely what makes us 'tick' (our inner workings) is (case by case basis) as distinct as a wristwatch be from psychology. Some of us are Timex, others sundial.


Actually, that's not true. We're all guided by whatever gives us the greatest dopamine charge. For Neurotypical people, this is usually social interaction with other people in various forms and spending time in environments they consider pleasurable. For Aspies, this is usually an activity centered around either conceptual of physical structures that are perceived as complex and aesthetical, whether it's a clockwork, a scientific field, film, music, literature, ... But in essence, all humans (both Neurotypicals and Aspies alike) are guided by their dopamine charges. That's what gives our lives meaning.

The difference between Aspies and Neurotypicals is essentially that Neurotypicals let their lives being run by their subconscious unless their subconscious can't handle it (only then their consciousness takes over) whereas Aspies do everything consciously because they don't have enough dopamine to let their subconscious take over. Once you're at a sufficient dopamine level and you allow your subconscious to take over, however, your life becomes far more pleasurable, far more meaningful and other people start making a lot more sense.... and life becomes a hell of a lot easier.



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25 Mar 2010, 7:23 pm

All due respect, it is but a matter or perception: yours, mine, everyone other's...

"So did I... until I got cured. Now I realise what I missed all these years and I feel like I've led the life of a robot instead of a human."

- to say "cured" is to imply or suggest you/whomever was sick? afore...to each their own 'take.' Personally, I do not subscribe to the belief Asperger's 'is' a malady, as such. If it 'is' something to be cured (least for some folks), perhaps it is more so the degree of affliction some folks have comparison others, or converesly the ability some to tolerate said- shades of dark greys & brilliant rainbows, alternately each person. For me, contentment as we speak.


"With "cured" I mean that I no longer have any symptoms of Asperger's Syndrome. It changed my life completely and it feels like I'm reborn. For the first time in my life, things come naturally to me without having to think about it which leaves a feeling of clarity and quietude I couldn't imagine before. For the first time I understand what makes a sunny day so more interesting than a rainy day, for the first time I understand why so many people like to go clubbing every week, for the first time I'm actually able to make people appreciate my for my personallity instead of my intellect, etc."

- as I said/reiterate, 'degrees', the adage 'to each their own', different strokes for different folks, etc. I have always been able to enjoy the rainy & the luminary environment nature or persons less so - 'prefer' however separate the wheat from the chaff as it were to my liking and for me, the chaff of the equation be humanity for the most, wheat the satisfaction traveling beat my own drummer. Suffice to say: happy for you, quite content am I. Perhaps the difference too may be unlike you who desire "to make people appreciate" you for your personailty instead of your intellect, I've no desire to impress people or have them appreciate me-period. Rather, enjoy the stimulation of things more so & find more satisfaction and peace as such - it is not a burden, rather it is a preference mine, having partaken each.


"Actually, that's not true. We're all guided by whatever gives us the greatest dopamine charge... But in essence, all humans (both Neurotypicals and Aspies alike) are guided by their dopamine charges. That's what gives our lives meaning."

- and yet, everyone's neurochemistry is different, and not all dopamine receptors are created equal - which is in essence a 'ditto' in as much as it correlates with what I have said earlier re: 'to each their own'. We are not cookie cutter people...I could give other examples via my own life but a sense intellectual piety and good taste prevents my elaborating. We shall perhaps agree to disgree, but nontheless I do enjoy the discourse.



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26 Mar 2010, 4:22 am

IWishIWasCioran wrote:
All due respect, it is but a matter or perception: yours, mine, everyone other's...


Not really. We're all animals following patterns that are largely genetically defined. The patterns followed by people with Asperger's just differ from those followed by Neurotypicals.

IWishIWasCioran wrote:
"So did I... until I got cured. Now I realise what I missed all these years and I feel like I've led the life of a robot instead of a human."

- to say "cured" is to imply or suggest you/whomever was sick? afore...to each their own 'take.' Personally, I do not subscribe to the belief Asperger's 'is' a malady, as such.


Well... I used to think the same until Saturday. Then my consciousness and subconsciousness changed seats due to the dopamine bomb I had taken and this has changed my ways in life I never deemed possible. I still have the same intelligence, the same knowledge and probably the same interests, but I gained a lot that wasn't there before. I can now do a lot of things instinctively which creates a quietude in my head I never felt before, it's become much easier to make other people appreciate my company, I can now appreciate a lot of things in life I couldn't appreciate before, there's more connection between me and my environment, there's more connection between me and my body (bodily movements have become smoother and my voice has become easier to control as a result) and that's all just the tip of the iceberg.

If you've never known what it means to be Neurotypical, it's hard to fanthom you're missing out on something, but I've experienced both worlds and I now know that I've been missing out on quite a lot.

IWishIWasCioran wrote:
- as I said/reiterate, 'degrees', the adage 'to each their own', different strokes for different folks, etc. I have always been able to enjoy the rainy & the luminary environment nature or persons less so - 'prefer'


I have been able to appreciate these things as well, but only from an intellectual perspective and to a lesser degree. You see, Neurotypicals appreciate things because the things they like release a certain amount of dopamine without any rational processes involved. For people with Asperger's, this dopamine charge can only be triggered by rational processes and such charges are both rare and short in comparison with Neurotypical people. This is why people with Asperger's have so few interests and why there are so obsessively involved with those interests. Superficial involvement in these interests does not create a dopamine charge and neither do activities that fall beyond the few interests they have.

IWishIWasCioran wrote:
Perhaps the difference too may be unlike you who desire "to make people appreciate" you for your personailty instead of your intellect, I've no desire to impress people or have them appreciate me-period. Rather, enjoy the stimulation of things more so & find more satisfaction and peace as such - it is not a burden, rather it is a preference mine, having partaken each.


I never cared what other people think of me, but I had come at a point in my life where a relationship was the only thing that still made my life meaningful and a relationship was impossible to maintain in the long run because I had an insufficient emotional connection with the outside world.

What gave my life meaning besides a relationship was learning new things and gaining new experiences, but after quite a rich life of major ups and major downs, I had come to the realisation that it was very difficult for me as an Aspie to actually maintain relationships and my hunger for learning new things and gaining new experiences had largely been satisfied. After gaining quite an understanding of various sciences, after having studied various cultures, after exploring pretty much every genre in film and music there are, after having traveled to various countries, after having tried various thrills, after having tried various drugs, after having lived both a decadent college lifestyle and the suburbian life of an IT consultant, etc. I felt like there was little more to me that life had to offer but raising my own family and this seemed pretty much impossible after 5 relationships each of which lead to getting dumped because my ex graduately came to see me as a friend rather than a lover... due to my Asperger's.

While a week ago I felt there was little more life had to offer to me, I now feel like a whole new world has opened up to me.

IWishIWasCioran wrote:
"Actually, that's not true. We're all guided by whatever gives us the greatest dopamine charge... But in essence, all humans (both Neurotypicals and Aspies alike) are guided by their dopamine charges. That's what gives our lives meaning."

- and yet, everyone's neurochemistry is different, and not all dopamine receptors are created equal - which is in essence a 'ditto' in as much as it correlates with what I have said earlier re: 'to each their own'. We are not cookie cutter people...I could give other examples via my own life but a sense intellectual piety and good taste prevents my elaborating. We shall perhaps agree to disgree, but nontheless I do enjoy the discourse.


If you believe that, you are dilluding yourself. We're all dominated by our genes and our genes drive us to search for serotonine (pleasure) and dopamine (happiness). What sort of activities you need to do to release these neurotransmitters differs from person to person and for some this may be anything from smalltalk to sports and kicks, while for others there is little else but a philosophical debate, an art house film or even a symphony of a particular composer that generates such a release. You probably see yourself as an intellectual who only seeks intellectual stimulation, but if you believe that you seek this intellectual stimulation not because of the dopamine charge it generates you are most definitely dilluding yourself. You are engaged in intellectual stimulation because it makes you happy and this sense of happiness is precisely what dopamine does to a person. Without dopamine there's no way to experience happiness and without serotonine there's no way to experience pleasure.



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26 Mar 2010, 11:43 am

Again, no agreement in this corner...for 'this' individual (which distinguishes me from the others same by the very nature of my experiences, pursuits, likes, opines, etc.) there is 'nothing' to be 'cured' my case - you or others may feel in need a rescue as it were...if so, que sera sera. You claim an awakening of sorts your case - mine, haven't slumbered for years: dream with my eyes wide open.

There is nothing wrong 'not' having Asperger's any more 'having' it, individual incline...as narrative claims herein ours suggests, variance exists. As I've iterated afore, to each their own - Asperger's to their device, you your 'cure', he or she yonder another. If you choose to believe otherwise you merely exercise individual prerogative (as do I), and in fact affirm those very differences. You see, if it was all but as simple, cut and dried as you infer (to borrow from Louie Armstrong) "what a wonderful world". Alas, but pie in the sky when 'stead a slice humble be more apropos. I cannot affirm your sentiments.

"I never cared what other people think of me, but I had come at a point in my life..."

- 'your' fork in the road, 'your' apocalypse... but not mine or another's, never will be for some. The seeming utopia you now embrace is not the same pill deliverance for everyone - nor as I've said ad nauseam is it a missing component in everyone's lives. I'm reminded of Cioran's proffer - "What I know at 60, I knew as well at 20. Forty years of a long, superfluous labor of verification." I concur, until/unless I become inclined otherwise.


"What gave my life meaning besides..."

- from reading your 'story' as you tell it, appears you have been searching for a long time - not unlike many people - but not all. You tried this & that, went hither & yon, etc. I (though middle-aged) have never done, gone to or tried many of the things you have - nor have I ever even once felt inclined. Not so much ignorance as bliss, party of one, or, as (again) Cioran offered:

"Alone, even doing nothing, you do not waste your time. You do, almost always, in company. No encounter with yourself can be altogether sterile: Something necessarily emerges, even if only the hope of some day meeting yourself again."

Where you make your mistake (my opine) is in categorizing all humanity as subject to the very same motivations nee forces - or lack thereof each - I do not make this mistake and so disagree with you.



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26 Mar 2010, 12:19 pm

IWishIWasCioran wrote:
Again, no agreement in this corner...for 'this' individual (which distinguishes me from the others same by the very nature of my experiences, pursuits, likes, opines, etc.) there is 'nothing' to be 'cured' my case - you or others may feel in need a rescue as it were...if so, que sera sera. You claim an awakening of sorts your case - mine, haven't slumbered for years: dream with my eyes wide open.


Maybe you just haven't gotten to the point yet where you've achieved pretty much every dream you've ever had except for the unreachable ones?!?

IWishIWasCioran wrote:
There is nothing wrong 'not' having Asperger's any more 'having' it, individual incline...as narrative claims herein ours suggests, variance exists. As I've iterated afore, to each their own - Asperger's to their device, you your 'cure', he or she yonder another. If you choose to believe otherwise you merely exercise individual prerogative (as do I), and in fact affirm those very differences. You see, if it was all but as simple, cut and dried as you infer (to borrow from Louie Armstrong) "what a wonderful world". Alas, but pie in the sky when 'stead a slice humble be more apropos. I cannot affirm your sentiments.


A blind man is perfectly capable of living a happy life and neither is a deaf man, but both miss out on a lot of sensations normal people consider selfevident. And both have a life that's a lot more difficult. The same is true for Aspies. Aspies also miss out on a lot of sensations normal people consider selfevident and they also have lives far more difficult (due to their limited organisation and social skills). While some may be perfectly happy with such a life, it's most definitely harder just like it's harder for a blind of a deaf man.

IWishIWasCioran wrote:
"I never cared what other people think of me, but I had come at a point in my life..."

- 'your' fork in the road, 'your' apocalypse... but not mine or another's, never will be for some. The seeming utopia you now embrace is not the same pill deliverance for everyone - nor as I've said ad nauseam is it a missing component in everyone's lives. I'm reminded of Cioran's proffer - "What I know at 60, I knew as well at 20. Forty years of a long, superfluous labor of verification." I concur, until/unless I become inclined otherwise.


... spoken with the naivity of a 20-year-old. Anyone who believes a man of 20 can be as wise as enlightened as the same man at the age of 60 is either naive or stupid... and you don't seem stupid to me.

There may be exceptions, though, however not learning anything in 40 years is the mark of a very stubborn, a very arrogant and very unwise man.

IWishIWasCioran wrote:
"What gave my life meaning besides..."

- from reading your 'story' as you tell it, appears you have been searching for a long time - not unlike many people - but not all. You tried this & that, went hither & yon, etc. I (though middle-aged) have never done, gone to or tried many of the things you have - nor have I ever even once felt inclined. Not so much ignorance as bliss, party of one, or, as (again) Cioran offered:

"Alone, even doing nothing, you do not waste your time. You do, almost always, in company. No encounter with yourself can be altogether sterile: Something necessarily emerges, even if only the hope of some day meeting yourself again."


As an Aspie, I went crazy is my mind didn't have anything to contemplate. The very reason I kept searching, was to keep my mind busy with new and interesting thoughts as well as new and interesting sensations. This worked for most of my life until there was little new left to discover.

Further, the company of superficial people is a waste of time from an Aspie point of view, but the company of intelligent rational people can have far more value than an entire library of books as long as they're willing to share their knowledge and experience with you in an unprejudiced and open fashion. These are the kind of attributes I look for in a friend.

IWishIWasCioran wrote:
Where you make your mistake (my opine) is in categorizing all humanity as subject to the very same motivations nee forces - or lack thereof each - I do not make this mistake and so disagree with you.


Then what is it that makes you tick? Then what is it that gives your life meaning? You say you're different, but there must be something that keeps you from taking your own life on this sad and depraved little planet...



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26 Mar 2010, 12:33 pm

I have a few friends, all online only though but live with my gf (met online) and children so rarely bored!



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26 Mar 2010, 12:45 pm

I feel very lucky to have friends who understand my quirks and my set of problems.


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26 Mar 2010, 4:26 pm

Shalom, Salon (coming)

"Maybe you just haven't gotten to the point yet where you've achieved pretty much every dream you've ever had except for the unreachable ones?!?"

- I always set my goals low so they would be reachable, hence I was never disappointed [ rimshot / CYMBAL CRASH! ] Flip yet also apropos, 'nother vintage Cioran (as my) sentiment: "Glory - once achieved, what is it worth?" Been there, done that.


"A blind man is perfectly capable of living a happy life and neither is a deaf man, but both miss out on a lot of sensations normal people consider selfevident. And both have a life that's a lot more difficult. The same is true for Aspies. Aspies also miss out on a lot of sensations normal people..."

- 'normal'...'life'. Again Cioran: "Life is merely a fracas on an unmapped terrain, and the universe a geometry stricken with epilepsy."'


"... spoken with the naivity of a 20-year-old."

- Cioran spoke (obvious inference his quote) when he was already 60 years of age or more. I am unaware of how old you are -though according to you it would make some difference - perhaps some folks are more deliberate or measured, i.e., 'late bloomers' if you will, compared Cioran/others...


"There may be exceptions, though, however not learning anything in 40 years is the mark of a very stubborn, a very arrogant and very unwise man.'

- as Cioran is not here to defend himself, I would suggest a 'beam in eye' often obstructs the vantage point myopics and their view 'speck' orb another. Perhaps reading Cioran in greater supply/depth the limited internet paper available to me here post brief snippets his, you would reconsider such an indictment of him. If not, well... as you will; I'm in no need affirmation any.


"As an Aspie, I went crazy is my mind didn't have anything to contemplate. The very reason I kept searching, was to keep my mind busy with new and interesting thoughts as well as new and interesting sensations. This worked for most of my life until there was little new left to discover."

- Cioran: "Man starts over again everyday, in spite of all he knows, against all he knows." Put another Salon (and how I hate to contradict the Beatles, but) "I'm NOT HE as you ARE NOT HE as you ARE NOT ME and we ARE NOT ALL TOGETHER." Your case unlike mine appears to be (nod Cioran, reference man 'drowning', ocean of the mind) matter "a man clinging to shipwreck who imagines rescue", yours achieved so you say via 'cure'. Alas, no one 'recovers' from the disease of being born, a deadly wound if there ever was one.


"Then what is it that makes you tick? Then what is it that gives your life meaning? You say you're different, but there must be something that keeps you from taking your own life on this sad and depraved little planet..."

- you want to know my secret? EM Cioran. Surprised? My own life suggests if it does not prove, that taken twice a day in copious doses, Cioran can help reduce the effect of life on the psyche.

Some embrace 'cures', others instead pursue 'infections' variously...for me, I read/absorb Cioran. He resonates within me more than anyone else I have ever read, and I have a library of some note. Perhaps this quote his too will assist you if not convince -

"The certainty of being only an accident has accompanied me on all occasions, propitious or injurious, and if it has saved me from the temptation to believe myself necessary, it has not on the other entirely cured me of a certain vainglory inherent in the loss of illusions."

Salon, Shalom (going)