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cyberscan
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22 Mar 2010, 10:42 pm

alana wrote:
states rights just seem like a vehicle to let the majority bully the minority to me, you only have to look at the gay marriage issue to see that happening (not to mention abortion). With health care the fiscal majority, which is actually a very small minority, has bullied the working poor for a very long time. I have yet to see anything touted under the banner of states rights as anything more than a clarion call of knuckle-dragging xenophobes to band together and keep our country in the dark ages. I don't see how it is relevant to health care in particular. We either all have the same rights under the constitution or we don't. Editing to add I haven't seen any governmental system that is non-governmental that doesn't discriminate, the people have to have representation, otherwise there are just lords/landowners and everyone else, the peasantry. Maybe in primitive cultures where everyone is related and the tribe is small enough for those ties to inspire loyalty, but anytime a population grows big enough there has to be gov't in some form. Without it you not only have a system where the rich confiscate everything, you are in big trouble when someone else wants your resources and you have no defense.


I'm more concerned about individual rights than I am about states' rights. State governments are some of the worst despotic bullying tyrants out there. However, if I can set two of the peoples' powerful enemies against each other and cause them to fight and weaken themselves, I will. The state governments as well as the federal government has broken the contract it has that gives them the authority to govern. Because they have broken this contract, they have lost their legitimate claim to power. As far as I am concerned they rule only by the power of force and the ability to turn guns upon citizens. In other words, they rule by force rather than consent or respect. This includes both state and federal governments.


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Nan
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26 Mar 2010, 9:15 pm

Hon, when you get down to it, any group of people will attempt tyrannize (sorry for SP) another group of people if they have it in their best interests to do so. History is rife with examples (and I tend to think of myself as a pragmatist). Every now and then there is an occasion where enough people think beyond their own spheres, beyond their comfort levels, and try to take things to a better place for everyone. A Rare Thing, and beautiful to behold when it happens.

Government (and by extension formal, codified law) is pretty much just legitimated mob rule agreed to by those who are governed. Sometimes, because of the structure of a particular government, protections are put in place so that the majority cannot run rough-shod over a minority group in perpetuity. Sometimes they work. Sometimes they don't.

Given that, it still appears, in my mind, to be in my best interest to participate in the group governance - when I approve of the actions AND when I do not approve of the actions - because not being part of the society would mean having no protections whatsoever in a world where one is, basically, expendable = not someplace I want to be. Ever.

Hopefully, in the grand scheme, it all works out for the best for all. All I know at this point is that I do not have to worry that my daughter will be refused medical care now. Via a number of the options that are opening for her, except for a very short time window, she will receive the care that she may need. And for that I will be eternally grateful to the people who made this happen.

The relief I feel is still just a tremendous thing. I would assume that people felt like this when the Social Security program was first established. (And I'm sure there was much howling from the opposition about that, as well.) There is a safety net now, so instead of constantly worrying .... the rattlesnake has been removed from the room, to be a bit more concrete. :wink:

And with that, my discussion of this topic is ended. I wish everyone good health, because it's truly a b***h when you don't have it.



cyberscan
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27 Mar 2010, 10:07 am

We USED to have what is thought of as universal health care in at least my state. When I was growing up, people could go to the Health Department and get preventative care and treatment for FREE! I knew of one teacher in my school who used to do this very thing, and she encouraged us to do the same thing. After a few years of knowing about this, I know that the state started charging for this service based upon income.

What has passed congress is not universal health care it is a universal health insurance MANDATE (another burden or command to be obeyed). Congress likes to brag about how no body will be turn down for coverage, but what it fails to mention is the cost of premiums for people with pre-existing conditions. They claim that there will be subsidies to help pay the cost, but I can guarantee that the subsidies will not be enough to take onerous burden off individuals and families.

Remember that GOVERNENT is the reason why medical care is so damned expensive. It is government that decides if a hospital is allowed to open. It is government who decides who is allowed to practice medicine or who can participate in any medical profession, and it is government which decides who can sell insurance.. Get the government out of medicine or reduce it to a bare minimum, and people will see the costs go down and quality increase.


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I am AUTISTIC - Always Unique, Totally Interesting, Straight Talking, Intelligently Conversational.
I am also the author of "Tech Tactics Money Saving Secrets" and "Tech Tactics Publishing and Production Secrets."