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Esther
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21 Mar 2010, 10:50 pm

This question is especially for the USA members:

As an aspie, especially those without an official diagnosis, how do you take care of the bill when you have to go to the dentist or the doctor or buy prescriptions?

Do you have to buy your own private insurance or go without insurance and just pay out-of-pocket? Are you under a program that helps pay for such things?

I know that here in the US, if you're over 18 and want to be under a parent's insurance policy (if the parent has one), you need to be a full-time college student. For those over 18 and is not going to college full-time, how do you manage when you really need to see the doctor and/or dentist? How do you manage when you're out of college and no longer under your parent's plan?

I'm curious because I would be very scared to be without insurance (medical, most of all). I think a lot of people stay at their jobs just for the insurance coverage.

Anybody from any country, please feel free to write in. I'd like to see how all of you manage under different systems.



Esther
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22 Mar 2010, 12:02 am

This obviously does not include the WP members who have their own insurance through self-employment, through an employer or via a spouse/domestic partner's coverage.



lyricalillusions
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22 Mar 2010, 12:27 am

I don't have any medical insurance at all & never have (not since I was a kid & was covered under my parents). I never go to the doctor or hospital, no matter how sick I am, unless it's absolutely necessary, because I can't afford it. I've never been able to work, so I can't get insurance that way. I get mental health care through a local agency that runs on a sliding fee scale, & since I have no income, they pay for my meds, therapy, & the psychiatrist. But as for physical health, I just have to hope nothing really bad happens because I can do nothing about it if it does.

About 5 1/2 years ago, I was forced to go to the hospital & they removed my gall bladder. The hospital covered everything for my stay there since I had no insurance & no income to pay them back, but I still owed over $500 to the doctor who performed the surgery, about $800 to the doctor who gave the anesthesia, another $300 to someone else (can't remember the reason) & another $550 to the ambulance who took me to the hospital. I still owe all of those except the one that cost $300. I used to make monthly payments until it got to the point that I could no longer do it & had to stop. Me & my mom are both living on her disability check with is less than $700 a month & it just got to be too hard. They're always sending me statements now from lawyers & collection agencies, but I can't pay them with no money.

the last time I had to go to the doctor was about 3 years ago & I had to have my wisdom tooth out. They worked on a sliding fee scale, the way my mental health place does & I had to pay $40 to have it removed since I have no income. I was supposed to go back for future visits, but could never afford to & still haven't, even though I have other teeth with problems. The dentist was a horrible guy anyways, & I wouldn't want to have to deal with him again. The problem with going to places that have sliding scales, is that, the less you can pay, the worse the care is that you receive, & the worse the doctor is that you get. If you have insurance or money, you can get a great doctor, but if you have neither, you get stuck with either seeing no doctor at all (like I usually do) or seeing a really crappy one.

One of the reasons I know I won't be able to get tested for an ASD anytime soon is because it costs a lot of money & I have none. Even if I could get tested, I would get sent to the worst doctor around because of my lack of insurance & inability to pay.


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pumibel
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22 Mar 2010, 12:32 am

Well I am currently waiting for my appointments to get scheduled with the VA, but until then I would have to go to the emergency room if I had to get something very urgent taken care of. Otherwise, I would have to pay out of pocket for any health care. If I go to the dentist I have to pay out of pocket too. I have not been to the dentist is a long time because of this. I just take very good care of my teeth.

You can look up health care discount programs and see what is available for your area. THese are plans that offer discounts for the most common types of medical and dental care visits. You will have to read a lot of information to find the right program for you. If you are making very little money you may qualify for Medicaid, as well. ALso, look into helath insurance policies because as an individual you may not have to pay a huge amount. There are so many policies out there to choose form. Again, it takes some research and reading time.



cyberscan
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22 Mar 2010, 12:38 am

I am diagnosed with classic autism. With such a diagnosis, I am ineligible for any kind of meaningful health insurance. I am currently ineligible for any form of government aid (not that I want to be on it any way). The unconstitutional bill passed through congress will provide little help for people in my position. The main thing it will do is MANDATE that people like me carry health insurance. The bill also mandates that health insurance companies cover people like me (but at what premium?). Now, I not only am I screwed if I have to go to the hospital, I am also screwed due to the fact that I will be required by the government to carry health insurance that I cannot afford. It would have been better for the American people to have the unconstitutional single payer (government) health care than for us to have the unconstitutional health insurance mandate. Once again we are steamrolled by government restrictions with no help in sight.


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PunkyKat
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22 Mar 2010, 2:14 am

I never go t doctors/hospitals anyway. I don't get sick that much and if I get hurt I could always stitch myself back up. I've had too many bad expirences with the incompetence of doctors. No matter how sick I get, I would die rather than face another quack. Doctors don't understand how I can't feel a sensation like being stabbed but if something brushes up against me or someone touches me I scream as if I am being killed. I won't wear the ID braclets or hospital gowns for anything and they would have to put them on when I was under anestesia and then take them right off before it wore off... I'd rip off the moniters because of the sensation. Almost every nurse I have encountered is so rude and stupid. They'd harass me about wearing the gown or bracelet until I had a meltdown and they saw I really was autistic and finnaly left me alone because they could not win but I was so stressed and overwhelmed I've almost fainted. Medical staff are so incompentent about AS and autism. They think autism= rainman. It's not worth it.



Nan
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22 Mar 2010, 2:24 am

The bill that was just passed will not impose mandatory insurance on low income people, but will make it available to them via government subsidies or at no charge, depending on their income. Once people pass a certain earnings income limit, they will have to pay a penalty tax of (the last I heard) about from $95 to $650 per year if they do not obtain coverage - to help pay everyone back for any care they might use as an uninsured patient at some point. If they don't earn enough, there is no penalty for turning down coverage ( the last I'd read). But, basically, if you are poor, you will have access to medical care as the provider will be able to bill Medicaid/another program for it. As written, nobody will be denied care because they cannot afford care.

I would guess that people who do not live in the USA and are not familiar with the existing system most likely do not realize what a huge, huge step forward this is. This ranks up there with the creation of the old age/social security system.

There is not a comprehensive government program out there before or after the passage of the legislation. There are some federal programs (medicare, primarily) run directly by the feds and they are primarily for the elderly and completely/severely disabled. Each state runs their own low-income programs, which are funded federally but controlled/designed/administered at the state level (Medicaid). It's been, in the past, difficult to find a provider who will accept Medicaid, as the reimbursement rates are so low. When my daughter was an infant I phoned every doctor's office in the phone book (I lived in San Diego, CA) and none would accept a new Medicaid patient - she was quite ill. We ended up using the emergency room at the county hospital on a regular basis because that was the only option available. The bills were staggering. Thankfully, Medicaid covered them. But not all the medications she needed - we went without about half of them. I sold my blood plasma monthly to get her one of those not covered.

The new law, when signed, is designed to create pools of health insurance programs set up primarily by the private sector that, hypothetically, will offer the option to select from a number of again hypothetically affordable plans. If you already have insurance, you may be eligible for the same tax breaks to help pay for it, depending on your income levels. "Premium subsidies would be available for individuals and families with incomes between 133 percent and 400 percent of the poverty level, or $14,404 to $43,320 for individuals and $29,326 to $88,200 for a family of four. The subsidies would be on a sliding scale. For example, a family of four earning 150 percent of the poverty level, or $33,075 a year, would have to pay 4 percent of its income, or $1,323, on premiums. A family with income of 400 percent of the poverty level would have to pay 9.5 percent, or $8,379. In addition, if your income is below 400 percent of the poverty level, your out-of-pocket health expenses would be limited."

Pre-existing conditions will no longer be grounds for being denied insurance. Denial of coverage, or discrimination in pricing of coverage, will be illegal.

Lifetime caps on how much your care the insurer will pay will be illegal. That is, you can't get halfway through a cancer treatment and be shown the door because your insurance just ran out. No, it happens every freaking day.

Starting in about 6 months (I believe they think it will take that long) children who are no longer in college (or who never went) will be able to be continued on a parent's policy until either 26 or 27 (I did not see the final language). This would be only if they are not eligible for any insurance through their work (if they were working).

An emergency high risk pool will be set up for people who are in immediate need and who cannot obtain coverage elsewhere, while the rest of the provisions are phased in over a multi-year period.

If you are under 30 and consider yourself extraordinarily lucky, you will be allowed to buy "catastrophic coverage only" policies at a lower cost.

Currently, elderly people on social security income get their medicines paid for up until between the government subsidy and any co-pays granny has to make the total comes up to a couple of thousand dollars. Then the government drops them like a hot rock for the next several thousand dollars of medicines, and THEN it picks them back up (if they're still alive) and buys their meds for them again. This legislation will plug that problem - they call it filling "the donut hole"...

My daughter aged off my policy this year, and is COBRA'ing insurance at about $600 a month. Had this law not been passed, once the COBRA period was over she would have been uninsurable. She has several ongoing conditions that will never go away. Had she not been able to pay the premiums and co-payments and dropped COBRA, she would not have been subsequently eligible for the rather minimal "catastrophic" insurance program that my state runs (it has a very low annual maximum benefit and lifetime benefit). She is doing temp work, so we never know how long she'll be in a particular job or when the next one will come

Hospitals in the past have had to write off bad debt caused by treating people without insurance - more often they padded the cost onto the backs of paying customers (regardless of who paid). My premium costs have doubled in the last several years, with cutbacks in services covered. There have been horror stories of people who have lost everything they've owned. And more horror stories of people who died from lack of ongoing care.

Hopefully, in a bit, that will be horror stories from the bad old days.

To the OP - many jobs do not have "benefits" - that is, they do not supply medical insurance of any variety. Some offer some coverage, but only of a very minimal variety. If you have a pre-existing condition, you had to pray you got a job with good benefits and you had to do anything it took to keep that job - regardless of how awful it was. It's a terrible sword to have hanging over your head every day. If you got laid off, if you got fired.... it can/could all fall apart and you could get to watch the people you love die. Even when there were treatments available, because you couldn't pay for them.

And they say we are not/were not a third world country? By what standard..... Maybe finally not on Tuesday, when Obama signs the bill into law.



Last edited by Nan on 22 Mar 2010, 10:02 am, edited 3 times in total.

alana
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22 Mar 2010, 3:35 am

thanks for explaining that Nan. The older I get the more I begin to think that by the time my generation hits old age the biggest segment of the population will be homeless, toothless, and have no internal organs left.

I don't currently have health insurance. At times I have bought temporary coverage. So far the only time I had a crisis I didn't have any coverage. It was last May and I had to have my gallbladder taken out. It cost 40,000 dollars altogether. I am now nuclear because of the b.s. radioactive tracer and CT scans they did, and most probably a future cancer patient. I was down to the least I have ever worked because of losing alot of work due to the economy, and nurse took pity on me because I was going to leave the hospital and not have the surgery so she turned my name over to the charity program. That covered about 30,000 of the bill. I am still paying off the rest in bits every month. I was blessed that I didn't have much work then, I ended up probably owing less than I would have if I'd had health insurance. I don't know what the answer is in this society...get a job you hate, and drink heavily and take tons of pills to endure it and keep your coverage, I guess. Either that or lead a life of crime. Crime pays.



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22 Mar 2010, 3:50 am

Alana - or pray for the lottery. :wink:

I have been crying on and off for several hours now. The relief I feel is so intense all I can do is cry. I am seriously ill myself, and I have been terrified at what my daughter's future was going to bring her if I could not work and keep a roof over our head so that she could work when it was available so that she would be able to earn enough to pay for care and ... not knowing if it was going to be enough. Once I can finally sleep tonight, it will be a better sleep than I've had in many months.

You are lucky to have found the charity. I do hope your health holds. One of the jobs my daughter has had recently was in a cancer center, doing procedures scheduling and having to deal with insurance companies. The stories she would come home to tell me of people basically being given the "thumbs down" when the treatment would have cured them but because they could not pay for it... what that's been doing to her (and me, by extension)... and to the people at the cancer center who knew they had a fighting chance to keep those folks alive but who had to say "I'm sorry, go home now, goodbye."... it should never have been this way.

I never cared much for Obama. I think I didn't even vote for him. But I will be eternally grateful to him and his for what they've done for us all.



Last edited by Nan on 22 Mar 2010, 4:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

alana
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22 Mar 2010, 4:05 am

Nan wrote:
Alana - or pray for the lottery. :wink:

I have been crying on and off for several hours now. The relief I feel is so intense all I can do is cry. I am seriously ill myself, and I have been terrified at what my daughter's future was going to bring her if I could not work and keep a roof over our head so that she could work when it was available so that she would be able to earn enough to pay for care and ... not knowing if it was going to be enough. Once I can finally sleep tonight, it will be a better sleep than I've had in many months.

You are lucky to have found the charity. I do hope your health holds. One of the jobs my daughter has had recently was in a cancer center, doing procedures scheduling and having to deal with insurance companies. The stories she would come home to tell me of people basically being given the "thumbs down" when the treatment would have cured them but because they could not pay for it... what that's been doing to her (and me, by extension)... and to the people at the cancer center who knew they had a fighting chance to keep those folks alive but who had to say "I'm sorry, go home now, goodbye."... it should never have been this way.

I never cared much for Obama. I didn't vote for him. But I will be eternally grateful to him and his for what they've done for us all.


wow, that is awful. you know it happens but to have to look those people in the face and turn them away...wow, just wow. thanks for the explanation about the health care thing...I have to be honest I haven't paid it alot of attention because I've been afraid that it would never make it through congress without so much castration and evisceration it would be completely neutured. I am nervous where I will fall in the coverage department and if I will have to try to scrape together for coverage I can barely afford. I never understood why people stay poor until I got this poor (and got old enough to care) and realized that the working poor are the worst off in this society by far.

I actually just bought a couple of lottery tickets. I forced myself to do it because it is kind of a phobia for me, so I did it. I haven't looked at them yet though, I don't know what the winning numbers are because I can't make myself look. I don't know why I have this phobia, really, so I am trying to shed it because it is stupid. I think because if I lose it means god does in fact hate me.

I am so relieved for you that this bill is going to help your family and your daughter. I am still grateful to the Clintons for Cobra. People complain about it but without it, my word...my sister had to use it when her daughter was born with birth defects and she had to quit her job. She spent weeks practically living in the NICU while her daughter had surgeries. Her daughter is almost 2 and my sis is now having to file bankruptcy because even with health coverage she gained (the NICU actually hired her to work a weekend shift and she got insurance though part time) she still owes over 200k in medical bills. My sister kicks arse in the work dept, she is NT and she got a full time job up there after that and then just got another job working for her old company she had quit after her daughter was born.



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22 Mar 2010, 6:20 am

Nan wrote:
And they say we are not/were not a third world country? By what standard..... Maybe finally not on Tuesday, when Obama signs the bill into law.


than you Nan for that information. too bad more folk just don't get the fact that this nation can't let the perfect be the enemy of the better-than-nothing which is all this gridlocked country can accomplish these days.



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22 Mar 2010, 7:08 am

Nan wrote:
The bill that was just passed will not impose mandatory insurance on low income people, but will make it available to them via government subsidies or at no charge, depending on their income. Once people pass a certain earnings income limit, they will have to pay a penalty tax of (the last I heard) about $650 per year if they do not obtain coverage - to help pay everyone back for any care they might use as an uninsured patient at some point. If they don't earn enough, there is no penalty for turning down coverage ( the last I'd read). But, basically, if you are poor, you will have access to medical care as the provider will be able to bill Medicaid/another program for it. As written, nobody will be denied care because they cannot afford care.

I would guess that people who do not live in the USA and are not familiar with the existing system most likely do not realize what a huge, huge step forward this is. This ranks up there with the creation of the old age/social security system.

There is not a comprehensive government program out there before or after the passage of the legislation. There are some federal programs (medicare, primarily) run directly by the feds and they are primarily for the elderly and completely/severely disabled. Each state runs their own low-income programs, which are funded federally but controlled/designed/administered at the state level (Medicaid). It's been, in the past, difficult to find a provider who will accept Medicaid, as the reimbursement rates are so low. When my daughter was an infant I phoned every doctor's office in the phone book (I lived in San Diego, CA) and none would accept a new Medicaid patient - she was quite ill. We ended up using the emergency room at the county hospital on a regular basis because that was the only option available. The bills were staggering. Thankfully, Medicaid covered them. But not all the medications she needed - we went without about half of them. I sold my blood plasma monthly to get her one of those not covered.

The new law, when signed, is designed to create pools of health insurance programs set up primarily by the private sector that, hypothetically, will offer the option to select from a number of again hypothetically affordable plans. A family of four with an income of around $88,000 a year would have enough tax breaks that they would be able to purchase insurance and have the tax breaks cover the cost completely.

If you already have insurance, you may be eligible for the same tax breaks to help pay for it, depending on your income levels.

Pre-existing conditions will no longer be grounds for being denied insurance. Denial of coverage, or discrimination in pricing of coverage, will be illegal.

Lifetime caps on how much your care the insurer will pay will be illegal. That is, you can't get halfway through a cancer treatment and be shown the door because your insurance just ran out. No, it happens every freaking day.

Starting in about 6 months (I believe they think it will take that long) children who are no longer in college (or who never went) will be able to be continued on a parent's policy until either 26 or 27 (I did not see the final language). This would be only if they are not eligible for any insurance through their work (if they were working).

An emergency high risk pool will be set up for people who are in immediate need and who cannot obtain coverage elsewhere, while the rest of the provisions are phased in over a multi-year period.

If you are under 30 and consider yourself extraordinarily lucky, you will be allowed to buy "catastrophic coverage only" policies at a lower cost.

Currently, elderly people on social security income get their medicines paid for up until between the government subsidy and any co-pays granny has to make the total comes up to a couple of thousand dollars. Then the government drops them like a hot rock for the next several thousand dollars of medicines, and THEN it picks them back up (if they're still alive) and buys their meds for them again. This legislation will plug that problem - they call it filling "the donut hole"...

My daughter aged off my policy this year, and is COBRA'ing insurance at about $600 a month. Had this law not been passed, once the COBRA period was over she would have been uninsurable. She has several ongoing conditions that will never go away. Had she not been able to pay the premiums and co-payments and dropped COBRA, she would not have been subsequently eligible for the rather minimal "catastrophic" insurance program that my state runs (it has a very low annual maximum benefit and lifetime benefit). She is doing temp work, so we never know how long she'll be in a particular job or when the next one will come

Hospitals in the past have had to write off bad debt caused by treating people without insurance - more often they padded the cost onto the backs of paying customers (regardless of who paid). My premium costs have doubled in the last several years, with cutbacks in services covered. There have been horror stories of people who have lost everything they've owned. And more horror stories of people who died from lack of ongoing care.

Hopefully, in a bit, that will be horror stories from the bad old days.

To the OP - many jobs do not have "benefits" - that is, they do not supply medical insurance of any variety. Some offer some coverage, but only of a very minimal variety. If you have a pre-existing condition, you had to pray you got a job with good benefits and you had to do anything it took to keep that job - regardless of how awful it was. It's a terrible sword to have hanging over your head every day. If you got laid off, if you got fired.... it can/could all fall apart and you could get to watch the people you love die. Even when there were treatments available, because you couldn't pay for them.

And they say we are not/were not a third world country? By what standard..... Maybe finally not on Tuesday, when Obama signs the bill into law.



I hate the damned insurance companies just as much as the next guy. Their greed is augmented by government regulation that prevents newcomers from providing meaningful competition. It is the government mandates, regulation, taxation, corporate greed that has brought us to the point we are at now. Government mandates at all levels impede about 90% of all would be (and qualified) providers from being able to provide medical care. An army medic who routinely saves lives on the battle filed is considered a hero. The same person who provides medical care inside the United States outside of the military is considered a felon. Local hospitals (at least in the states that I know of) are not allowed to be opened because doctors and nurses see a need. They are only allowed to be open if the state government agency decides if there is a need. That means that hospitals providing relatively poor care at an expensive rate will see no competition in the area due to the hospital / population ratio.

Any time the government (at least here in the Police States of America) enters any industry, the result is reduced quality, fewer services, and higher costs When the government has entered the college education system, costs went up. When states started mandating college degrees for certain professions, the college costs went up in that area of professional studies, and the costs of using services from the (college mandated_ profession skyrocketed. A prime example of how the government has driven up costs is the automotive insurance industry. Before automobile insurance was mandatory, the costs of obatining it was pretty low. When it became mandatory, the costs almost doubled. When the states implemented a program where companies notified the state governments when policies were dropped, the costs increased tremendously again. Young people are especially soaked by the insurance companies (regardless of driving record). Now, in addition to having to pay exorbitant rates of insurance in order to drive to work, they will be soaked again for mandatory health insurance. Whenever governments mandate purchases, they create little fiefdoms where a few players get rich off the backs of the working population. Mandatory health insurance is no exception.

I recently was admitted to the emergency room for a spike in blood pressure. I received a 50 cent pill and was charged over $800 for the visit. There were no tests done other than being hooked up to a blood pressure monitor. The medical assistant who took me to the hospital told me what kind of blood pressure medication that I would likely be given. Since she didn't have a degree in medicine, she was not able to write a prescription. Instead of driving directly to the pharmacy and getting what I needed, I had to spend over $800 for a doctor's signature. The local hospital was the only game in town. After a couple of days, the same medical assistant called around town to try to find a primary care physician for me. None would take self pay patients.

What the government of the Police States of America passed last night is NOT universal health care. It is only an insurance mandate. The bad thing about the federal government imposing mandatory health insurance is the fact that it has no constitution authority to do so. The constitution is a contract that gives the federal government its authority to govern provided that it heeds certain limitations and protects certain right of the people. The health insurance mandates violates both the limits imposed by the constitution as well as the rights of the people. If the government wants mandatory insurance, the proper way of implementing it is to first go through the process of amending the constitution before passing a "law" that mandates the insurance.

I volunteer at a center that provides education and therapy services to people with autism. The center just relocated. In the center, we installed smoke and fire detectors to provide notification in case of fire. Our costs for doing this was about $168. The fire marshal came in and inspected the place. He said that the fire detection system we had is not good enough even though this is the system that guards people while they sleep. His mandate was a fire alarm system that not only costs over $5000, but one that would paralyze autistic clients with over stimulation. I am autistic myself, and when this thing goes off the only thing I can do is try to get away from the sound and the lights. Not only did this government mandated system cost us $5000 that we didn't have, it also puts us in danger if there is an actual fire. We had to raise money and go into debt to buy something that was not only not needed but also poses a danger to our clients. This health insurance mandate will do much the same thing.

What is the solution to providing health care at a reasonable cost? The answer is simple; it is freedom. There should be freedom for providers to set up shop. There should be freedom for newcomers to enter the payment, finance, and insurance industry, and there should be freedom for patients to decide upon their own treatments. If I had this freedom, I could have purchased a $15 bottle of medicine without spending the $800 in order to obtain the government mandated prescription. If we have to have socialized medicine, then the single payer (government financed) system is the least evil of choices.


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I am also the author of "Tech Tactics Money Saving Secrets" and "Tech Tactics Publishing and Production Secrets."


Nan
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22 Mar 2010, 10:25 am

Agreed on the doctor thing, Cyberscan. My daughter collapsed and spent one day and one night (via the ER) in a hospital under observation a couple of years ago. Several tests were run to try to find out why she collapsed. The bill was close to $18,000 for that roughly 36 hour period. We also paid close to $100 for one antibiotic pill. I've been a mom for many decades. I know a strep infection when I smell one (they have a very distinctive smell). There have been many times when I could have been as well served by going to a minute-clinic at a pharmacy, asking for a strep test, and being written a prescription for the appropriate meds for my child based on the results of that OTC test. But that's not how it's been set up (until recently). I have a friend who'd be a great nurse. She wants to be a nurse. The waiting list to get into nursing school is several years long, at present. Same with medical schools. Supplies kept low.... artificially or an artifact of the system, who knows?

I do disagree on one of your premises, though. The insurance industry has had very, very little regulation and has run amok accordingly. Whenever there is no regulation, greed rears its ugly head to a degree that just completely boggles the mind. Just completely. As to constitutional "right" to act, the constitution was meant to be a living, breathing entity (in as far as that abstraction can apply). It was meant to have the capacity to expand and amend and grow as society changes and to serve the needs of the people - we were not meant to be blindly and concretely tied to a document written in a pre-industrial, agrarian society in which only white, protestant, land-holding males had rights (which was the case at the time). I'm a big believer in the Declaration of Independence, myself. When government no longer serves the needs and will of the people....

There was a time when public education was not considered a "right" in this country, either. Or assurances that measures would be taken against entities that poured dioxin in the water supplies because it was a cheaper way to get rid of the stuff than to dispose it properly..... The healthcare industry is huge, we're aware of that. My daughter's been working inside it and I've studied it (albeit a while back) in graduate school as a study concentration. Costs are shooting through the roof because they CAN shoot through the roof. There is very, very little in legal means to stop that. Free market systems, when truly free, tend to run amok regardless of how lovely the concepts behind them and how very dear the idea of their conceptual ideals are. There are tremendous, obscene profits being made in some quarters. This legislation, or part of it, will work towards cutting those costs. That means reining in a stampede. So be it. More power to them.

No, it's not universal healthcare in the traditional sense of that term. It is mandated coverage with financial support paid for by all. Which, when it comes down to it, is one hell of a lot better than what we have had to date.



cyberscan
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22 Mar 2010, 11:33 am

Nan wrote:
Agreed on the doctor thing, Cyberscan. My daughter collapsed and spent one day and one night (via the ER) in a hospital under observation a couple of years ago. Several tests were run to try to find out why she collapsed. The bill was close to $18,000 for that roughly 36 hour period. We also paid close to $100 for one antibiotic pill. I've been a mom for many decades. I know a strep infection when I smell one (they have a very distinctive smell). There have been many times when I could have been as well served by going to a minute-clinic at a pharmacy, asking for a strep test, and being written a prescription for the appropriate meds for my child based on the results of that OTC test. But that's not how it's been set up (until recently). I have a friend who'd be a great nurse. She wants to be a nurse. The waiting list to get into nursing school is several years long, at present. Same with medical schools. Supplies kept low.... artificially or an artifact of the system, who knows?

I do disagree on one of your premises, though. The insurance industry has had very, very little regulation and has run amok accordingly. Whenever there is no regulation, greed rears its ugly head to a degree that just completely boggles the mind. Just completely. As to constitutional "right" to act, the constitution was meant to be a living, breathing entity (in as far as that abstraction can apply). It was meant to have the capacity to expand and amend and grow as society changes and to serve the needs of the people - we were not meant to be blindly and concretely tied to a document written in a pre-industrial, agrarian society in which only white, protestant, land-holding males had rights (which was the case at the time). I'm a big believer in the Declaration of Independence, myself. When government no longer serves the needs and will of the people....

There was a time when public education was not considered a "right" in this country, either. Or assurances that measures would be taken against entities that poured dioxin in the water supplies because it was a cheaper way to get rid of the stuff than to dispose it properly..... The healthcare industry is huge, we're aware of that. My daughter's been working inside it and I've studied it (albeit a while back) in graduate school as a study concentration. Costs are shooting through the roof because they CAN shoot through the roof. There is very, very little in legal means to stop that. Free market systems, when truly free, tend to run amok regardless of how lovely the concepts behind them and how very dear the idea of their conceptual ideals are. There are tremendous, obscene profits being made in some quarters. This legislation, or part of it, will work towards cutting those costs. That means reining in a stampede. So be it. More power to them.

No, it's not universal healthcare in the traditional sense of that term. It is mandated coverage with financial support paid for by all. Which, when it comes down to it, is one hell of a lot better than what we have had to date.


I hate the insurance companies more than just about anyone. They are a bunch of discriminating thugs who have been granted powers that have been taken away from citizens. Insurance companies are given SPECIFIC permission to discriminate based upon sex, age, race, etc. Insurance companies are also highly regulated only in order to protect their MONOPOLY. The current insurance regulations protect the current insurance companies while preventing new competition. If we want to decrease the cost of health care, then we need to increase the supply. The constitution is NOT A LIVING DOCUMENT. It is a contract which gives governments authority to rule ONLY when they obey its limits. The founders knew that the Constitution may have to change to keep up with the times. That is why they set up two ways of Amending it. If the government wants to do socialized or mandated health insurance within the law, the only way that can be done is by using proper process to amend the constitution. Rather than doing that, the government has decided to declare war upon the constitution.

The reason why health costs is out of control is due to the fact that the "governments" control the supply. Up until now, this control was exerted by state "governments." The states decide where an when new hospitals are built, who can become doctors, who can become nurses, and who can become any other medical profession. It is the states that decide who can sell insurance and what must be covered, etc. All of these decisions should be in the hands of the PEOPLE. If the states or federal government acted as a guide rather than an authority, the supply of health care providers would be much better and would cost less.


Now, it will be the federal "government" that will take control in direct defiance of the constitution.


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22 Mar 2010, 4:11 pm

states rights just seem like a vehicle to let the majority bully the minority to me, you only have to look at the gay marriage issue to see that happening (not to mention abortion). With health care the fiscal majority, which is actually a very small minority, has bullied the working poor for a very long time. I have yet to see anything touted under the banner of states rights as anything more than a clarion call of knuckle-dragging xenophobes to band together and keep our country in the dark ages. I don't see how it is relevant to health care in particular. We either all have the same rights under the constitution or we don't. Editing to add I haven't seen any governmental system that is non-governmental that doesn't discriminate, the people have to have representation, otherwise there are just lords/landowners and everyone else, the peasantry. Maybe in primitive cultures where everyone is related and the tribe is small enough for those ties to inspire loyalty, but anytime a population grows big enough there has to be gov't in some form. Without it you not only have a system where the rich confiscate everything, you are in big trouble when someone else wants your resources and you have no defense.



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22 Mar 2010, 10:42 pm

alana wrote:
states rights just seem like a vehicle to let the majority bully the minority to me, you only have to look at the gay marriage issue to see that happening (not to mention abortion). With health care the fiscal majority, which is actually a very small minority, has bullied the working poor for a very long time. I have yet to see anything touted under the banner of states rights as anything more than a clarion call of knuckle-dragging xenophobes to band together and keep our country in the dark ages. I don't see how it is relevant to health care in particular. We either all have the same rights under the constitution or we don't. Editing to add I haven't seen any governmental system that is non-governmental that doesn't discriminate, the people have to have representation, otherwise there are just lords/landowners and everyone else, the peasantry. Maybe in primitive cultures where everyone is related and the tribe is small enough for those ties to inspire loyalty, but anytime a population grows big enough there has to be gov't in some form. Without it you not only have a system where the rich confiscate everything, you are in big trouble when someone else wants your resources and you have no defense.


I'm more concerned about individual rights than I am about states' rights. State governments are some of the worst despotic bullying tyrants out there. However, if I can set two of the peoples' powerful enemies against each other and cause them to fight and weaken themselves, I will. The state governments as well as the federal government has broken the contract it has that gives them the authority to govern. Because they have broken this contract, they have lost their legitimate claim to power. As far as I am concerned they rule only by the power of force and the ability to turn guns upon citizens. In other words, they rule by force rather than consent or respect. This includes both state and federal governments.


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I am AUTISTIC - Always Unique, Totally Interesting, Straight Talking, Intelligently Conversational.
I am also the author of "Tech Tactics Money Saving Secrets" and "Tech Tactics Publishing and Production Secrets."