Page 1 of 1 [ 8 posts ] 

CerebralDreamer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Dec 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 516

30 Mar 2010, 4:26 pm

The Humanist Philosophy seems to be full of problems anytime it sees practical application. The very basis of it is that people are in full control of who they are.

If people refuse to regard aggression, selfishness, greed and narcissism as inborn traits, people will assume that you can 'convince' someone to change their act. This will cause people to stick around someone who is nothing but trouble. "Oh, he/she will change once they realize xyz."

It just gets nastier when this line of thinking is applied to mental disorders. People make real efforts to cope and adapt who they are to the surrounding world. If they ask for a little needed patience or support, people respond very callously. "It's all in your head. Knock it off and act like the rest of us."

It's not just an issue with autism. This unreasonable hostility gets applied to bipolar disorders, schizophrenia, depression, anxiety, even chronic pain. Imagine being in excruciating, legitimate pain, only to have people tell you it's all in your head.

When people assume that someone can change 'who they are' without an excruciating, sometimes absurd level of effort, it just makes things extremely painful for good people with legitimate problems. It seems like people are constantly using humanist philosophy as an excuse to attack someone for who they are, for not 'choosing' to be something else.

It's disgusting to even consider. You would think years of intensive, exhaustive effort to overcome problems would earn someone a little respect, but it doesn't. If you even mention the effort you've gone through to deal with something, it just makes people even less patient, even more hostile.

Maybe people are just drawn to conflict, and they're using humanism as an excuse?



CockneyRebel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 102,107
Location: In a quiet and peaceful garden where Mick Avory-like Sweet Peas grow

30 Mar 2010, 4:31 pm

I think that the state of today's world, is very sad, in that respect. Those are very real conditions. I hate being told, that my depression is all in my head, because it's not. I guess that everybody thinks that everybody should just be able to suck it up.


_________________
Mick

Kanye West 2020

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26&start=645


PunkyKat
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 May 2008
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,492
Location: Kalahari Desert

30 Mar 2010, 5:15 pm

I am a meerkat in a human body. I hate people and hate being a person.



TadAuty
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 2 Nov 2009
Age: 50
Gender: Female
Posts: 27

30 Mar 2010, 6:53 pm

Yes I have definitely found this! I have seen people who sing songs about others pain or write poetry... speaking to the lost souls....or about them.....but if you are feeling lost.....they can be dismissive and say "well go find it!" or "cheer up.". I think it does sound all fantastically hippy and cool to speak of others pain....but being willing to accept/understand others are in pain is another thing. NTs frequently have trouble empathizing!! !!
MAYBE they care soooooooooooo much for our pain that they feeel it soooooooooooo much ....they have to stay away from us! (Which is absolutely their right!! !!) BUT I do think they should stop using humanitarianism as a mask to hide their own desire to avoid experiencing or mixing with those very humans they write about! OR stop complaining if sad people speak to them....when its their own words which are saying "i understand the wounded....and i want to reach out to them" They should say "I feel sorry for the wonded but i dont want any of them near me!!"



CerebralDreamer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Dec 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 516

30 Mar 2010, 7:09 pm

TadAuty wrote:
MAYBE they care soooooooooooo much for our pain that they feeel it soooooooooooo much ....they have to stay away from us! (Which is absolutely their right!! !!) BUT I do think they should stop using humanitarianism as a mask to hide their own desire to avoid experiencing or mixing with those very humans they write about! OR stop complaining if sad people speak to them....when its their own words which are saying "i understand the wounded....and i want to reach out to them" They should say "I feel sorry for the wonded but i dont want any of them near me!!"

If that's the case then they should really learn to express themselves in a way that makes sense. "Stuff like this gets me too upset. It's nothing personal, but I can't deal with this."

The problem is that it doesn't really seem to apply. It seems that a massive number of NTs thrive on human suffering. They watch movies and TV shows full of it all the time. They watch it on MTV, on soap operas, House M.D., Two and a Half Men. It's almost like they're laughing at it, like they find the suffering funny.

It brings me back to something I often saw in high school. People didn't want to fight because they knew the personal consequences. When someone did get into a fight, the entire cafeteria crowded around, as if it were some major event. They found two pissed off people beating on each other to be entertaining.

I never understood that. I always wanted to be as far away from the fight as possible. It seems like I'm one of the few people who didn't treat the fight as a spectator event.

It makes me think that an excess of empathy is really a bunch of bollocks. If that were really an issue, most of our reality TV shows wouldn't be on the air. People wouldn't have treated a schoolyard fight as a spectator event.



TadAuty
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 2 Nov 2009
Age: 50
Gender: Female
Posts: 27

30 Mar 2010, 7:15 pm

Yes I guess I was referring to the NTs who wouldnt have gathered around in the cafeteria....they would have been in the garden playing guitar or talking about the meaning of life and how violence and discrimination are bad!
I am the one that has to jump in the middle of fights cos I overemapthize with the person getting picked on......then i end up being in the middle of it! And have no self defense skills and frequently feel any rubbish dished out to me IS deserved, cos hell, i KNOW im not freaking perfect! :-)



TadAuty
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 2 Nov 2009
Age: 50
Gender: Female
Posts: 27

30 Mar 2010, 7:23 pm

P.S Yes I have always found the reference to empathy being an NT trait as a load of BS! They may have it in loads for 'their own', but it tends to be ASD types who truly have emapthy for others in a humanitarian way. Or animals. We are often accused of caring more about strangers than our own family/group/etc. Sure some of us can have a lack of empathy, but on the whole, I have found NTs 'empathy' to frequently be 'manners'. Empty words. And yes....they laugh when others get picked on....and growl at me for being "too serious" if I think I see someones feelings getting hurt.



CerebralDreamer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Dec 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 516

30 Mar 2010, 7:28 pm

TadAuty wrote:
P.S Yes I have always found the reference to empathy being an NT trait as a load of BS! They may have it in loads for 'their own', but it tends to be ASD types who truly have emapthy for others in a humanitarian way. Or animals. We are often accused of caring more about strangers than our own family/group/etc. Sure some of us can have a lack of empathy, but on the whole, I have found NTs 'empathy' to frequently be 'manners'. Empty words. And yes....they laugh when others get picked on....and growl at me for being "too serious" if I think I see someones feelings getting hurt.

When it comes to how cruel people can be, it makes me all the happier that they're expressing the same behaviors in academics. The longer and stronger they hold onto misled preconceptions, the more it'll take for people to have any sort of technological advancement.

I'm actually more afraid that they'll wake up to their flaws, without changing their behaviors. The last thing we need is a tech explosion in an oppressive society. (More tools for oppression is not a good thing, if you ask me.)