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Caitlin
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08 Apr 2010, 2:03 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
Caitlin wrote:
When I send my kids to school, I expect that their teachers will show respect for us by not ranting about their opinions of us to their friends. THAT'S called professionalism.


I don't think that is realistic. Everyone needs to rant somewhere, to someone, otherwise it builds up and comes up at the most inappropriate times and in the most inappropriate way. Hopefully, they do it without names, or any other identifying factors, of course.


I agree that it's unrealistic, but only because most people won't hold themselves up to a higher standard. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't try. I work as an agricultural policy analyst. I deal with irate, angry, ticked-off farmers on a daily basis. Do I ever feel like venting about them? Generalizing them and complaining about them? Yes. Do I do it? No. Because all that does is reinforce a negative outlook for me going forward.

The main reason for needing to vent in a negative way, is having a negative outlook or lack of perspective in the first place. I truly believe that if you start feeling, in your profession, that you want to start complaining and ranting about clients, it's a sign that you are losing perspective and balance. Ranting personally about people you are supposed to be dealing with professionally, will not get you that balance. It will only make you feel justified, which takes you right back to where you started. Teachers who regularly vent in an unprofessional way about their students or parents, will eventually internalise all that negativity, having justified it repeatedly through venting sessions, and it will seep out into all of their interactions with students and parents.

There is nothing wrong with feeling like you want to complain about people, or being tempted to join in because 'everyone in the office does it' - but instead of actually doing it, professionals like teachers have an obligation to challenge their thought processes, ask themselves whether they are really approaching the issue/person the right way, and make a choice to reconsider those generalizations they first felt like ranting about, and get back to the work they are paid to do, and do it well.


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gramirez
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08 Apr 2010, 4:19 pm

Katie_WPG wrote:
Once they're in, it can be very hard to get them out.

I don't know what it's like where you live, but where I live, It's quite the opposite - Schools want to kick kids out of Special Ed and mainstream them as fast as humanly possible.


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DW_a_mom
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08 Apr 2010, 5:00 pm

Caitlin wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Caitlin wrote:
When I send my kids to school, I expect that their teachers will show respect for us by not ranting about their opinions of us to their friends. THAT'S called professionalism.


I don't think that is realistic. Everyone needs to rant somewhere, to someone, otherwise it builds up and comes up at the most inappropriate times and in the most inappropriate way. Hopefully, they do it without names, or any other identifying factors, of course.


I agree that it's unrealistic, but only because most people won't hold themselves up to a higher standard. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't try. I work as an agricultural policy analyst. I deal with irate, angry, ticked-off farmers on a daily basis. Do I ever feel like venting about them? Generalizing them and complaining about them? Yes. Do I do it? No. Because all that does is reinforce a negative outlook for me going forward.

The main reason for needing to vent in a negative way, is having a negative outlook or lack of perspective in the first place. I truly believe that if you start feeling, in your profession, that you want to start complaining and ranting about clients, it's a sign that you are losing perspective and balance. Ranting personally about people you are supposed to be dealing with professionally, will not get you that balance. It will only make you feel justified, which takes you right back to where you started. Teachers who regularly vent in an unprofessional way about their students or parents, will eventually internalise all that negativity, having justified it repeatedly through venting sessions, and it will seep out into all of their interactions with students and parents.

There is nothing wrong with feeling like you want to complain about people, or being tempted to join in because 'everyone in the office does it' - but instead of actually doing it, professionals like teachers have an obligation to challenge their thought processes, ask themselves whether they are really approaching the issue/person the right way, and make a choice to reconsider those generalizations they first felt like ranting about, and get back to the work they are paid to do, and do it well.


Hmmm. We're sidetracking here but I've found that people who NEVER gripe are the ones who lose it at the worst times and worst way, with no turning back. People who gripe constantly will do what you suggest above, in allowing the negativity to take on a life of it's own. But isn't there a happy medium? When I release a rant, that's it. Done, gone, all negative feelings dealt with, and I can proceed far more positively in the future. But I do have to take care who I do that with, and how often, and so on. Since the OP was talking about a cousin, I believe, it was a reasonably objective situation for a rant. In the office it can spread and, thus, needs to be avoided. But to occassionally say to someone you are close to, "grrrr, you won't BELIEVE what I had to deal with today!" .... well, I actually think that for many people the release is essential to being able to go forward in a positive way without the negative feelings festering and growing. So, maybe we're more disagreeing on a matter of when, where and degree? You can't order yourself not to feel frustration, and pretending you don't when you do can be unhealthy.


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Caitlin
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08 Apr 2010, 5:33 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
But to occassionally say to someone you are close to, "grrrr, you won't BELIEVE what I had to deal with today!" .... well, I actually think that for many people the release is essential to being able to go forward in a positive way without the negative feelings festering and growing. So, maybe we're more disagreeing on a matter of when, where and degree?


Yes, I agree with you on the middle ground. I'm not proposing that people should be super-human and NEVER complain - but rather that as a rule of professionalism, it should be rare and kept in check so it doesn't become toxic. For teachers, because they are working with children, I think this is especially crucial. I believe unfortunately, in many teacher's lounges, it IS toxic. It spreads a culture of defeatism and blame in the education system, which sucks up all the professional energy that should be directed to improving the system and working effectively on an individual level. So yes, we are just disagreeing on the degree to which a person can do this before it becomes more of a problem for them than a solution.


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Katie_WPG
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08 Apr 2010, 6:21 pm

gramirez wrote:
Katie_WPG wrote:
Once they're in, it can be very hard to get them out.

I don't know what it's like where you live, but where I live, It's quite the opposite - Schools want to kick kids out of Special Ed and mainstream them as fast as humanly possible.


When I said that, I was referring to the fact that once a child is academically behind, catching up in regular ed gets harder and harder as the child gets older. Once a child is in special ed for a few years, they might not be able to cope with the regular course work and would just be placed right back in the remedial program.

Also, there are school systems here who encourage segregated classes because it's more cost-efficient than having children go in and out of the program and having to re-integrate them into a mainly NT classroom.



malya2006
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09 Apr 2010, 1:14 am

Caitlin wrote:
Yes, I agree with you on the middle ground. I'm not proposing that people should be super-human and NEVER complain - but rather that as a rule of professionalism, it should be rare and kept in check so it doesn't become toxic. For teachers, because they are working with children, I think this is especially crucial. I believe unfortunately, in many teacher's lounges, it IS toxic. It spreads a culture of defeatism and blame in the education system, which sucks up all the professional energy that should be directed to improving the system and working effectively on an individual level. So yes, we are just disagreeing on the degree to which a person can do this before it becomes more of a problem for them than a solution.


AMEN to that!! I couldn't agree with you more Caitlin! When you choose a job where you work with difficult people, especially something as sensitive as people's children (or in my case people's money) you expect to come across people that feel very strongly about certain things that are different from your views. You should be professional enough to keep your cool and not personally attack these people. I've seen OTs and STs making jokes about the children they are supposedly treating on their facebook. Just because they don't put names to identify these children, that makes it okay? I personally feel offended whether it's my child or not. It shows bad character, negativity, and I believe the bad attitude will carry over in therapy or in the classrooms.

Don't get me wrong, I'm actually happy people express themselves in forums and social networks, so THANK YOU for sharing your cousin's story! It allows me to see how people really are without censoring how they really feel, like they would in real life. I think it's wonderful!! However, I would just prefer people like that to stay far away from me or my kids, no offense.



Caitlin
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09 Apr 2010, 9:10 am

malya, shortly after I had to remove my son from his school (because his teacher held a class meeting where every child got to take a turn telling my son what they didn't like about him and he was so traumatized he refused to return), I saw a teacher post a response to a friend of mine on Facebook. I did not know this teacher, but she was lamenting how much she hates parent-teacher night because she had to waste her precious time telling parents how awful their children are. I could not bite my tongue. I replied and said I knew exactly how she felt. As a parent, I hate wasting my time telling my son's teacher how awful SHE is.

I consider it completely inappropriate and unprofessional - and as you said, a poor reflection on character - when people in positions of trust like teachers or OTs start making fun of or complaining about their clients as a matter of habit. It absolutely does affect the way they do their jobs. Everyone gets frustrated at work, but this is not the way to handle frustration. It does not solve your problem and will cummulatively create more.


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bethaniej
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09 Apr 2010, 10:42 pm

Huh...I work in public school (at a public Montessori), and I just assumed all schools were moving towards mainstreaming as many kids as possible. Montessori I think is a better environment, since children move at their own pace anyway...more like with homeschooling, and lessons are mainly individual with few whole group lessons. We have two children who have autism, and while they are very different, I've never felt that they in any way 'hold back' the GE students. True I don't know how it would work in mainstream classrooms. But one of the most inspiring ideas I've heard in one of those conference thingies we sometimes attend was that while a teacher was observing a classroom in Japan, the teacher noticed one child who kept acting out and was a bit of a pain in the a#$. When the classroom teacher there was asked about the student she/he just said something like, "You know, in the real world you have to deal with all kinds of people...that's life." Very zen...but also true. I think people learn tolerance by being exposed. It's been so interesting in our classroom to observe how the NT's handle our two autistic children. One has a severe speech delay and lots of sensory problems. But he's VERY big and QUITE strong. So every morning when someone gets out the apple cutting to work on, they give it a few goes on their own (one of those slicers, it's quite difficult even for me), and then they go and get him. He can always cut that apple. And it's cool that the kids recognize what his strengths are and that he gets to feel helpful/successful. The other guy has to do everything...well...very slowly. In his own time. So sometimes when we are on our way somewhere, he falls behind everyone else, or starts to hold up the line. Someone will always very kindly take him by the hand and help him keep up. The kids have seen me do it, and there have been times if I send the kids to carpool by themselves I'll suggest that someone make sure he gets down the hall with everyone else. But it's been neat to see how they've taken up dong this without suggestion. It's odd because academically he's on track....but he's so very different and so much on his own clock. While the other guy has been behind academically, but he has such size and strength....

We all have our strengths. Given time and opportunities, we learn to use them well in community.