US military 'trying to retrieve' Iraq killings video

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MissConstrue
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07 Apr 2010, 7:57 am

This makes me soooo mad, collateral murder. :evil:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8606801.stm



The US military says it is trying to retrieve the original video tapes of a controversial helicopter attack on a group of people in Iraq in 2007.

Footage of the attack was published on the internet by the website WikiLeaks.

Two of those killed were Reuters news agency employees whose cameras were mistaken for weapons, the US says.

The Pentagon has not questioned the video's authenticity but says it cannot make a complete verification until the original tapes have been located.

"We're attempting to retrieve the video from the unit who did the investigation," US Central Command spokesman Capt Jack Hanzlik was quoted as saying by the Associated Press news agency.

"We had no reason to hold the video [at Central Command] nor did the higher headquarters in Iraq," he added.

Helicopter crew can be heard celebrating on the video after firing at and killing alleged Iraqi insurgents, whom they refer to as "dead bastards".

A US military investigation into the attack concluded that correct rules of engagement were followed, despite the mistaken identification.

A spokesman for President Obama described the incident as "extremely tragic".


The video is in the link. :(


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i_wanna_blue
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07 Apr 2010, 9:28 am

Well, this is just one of many (probably) hundreds of incidents which have occurred since the war began. Only, they are never shown, as not to show the public that this is a war against ordinary Iraqi citizens. (Weapons of Mass Deception)

The mercenary group, Blackwater USA is not bound by US law, and can basically slay anyone they want to, without any consequences.

This is why I question why the war began in the first place. Ordinary Iraqi citizens have nothing to do with Al Qaeda or Osama bin Laden. Most of them are poor, and their only concern is to provide for their families. Even if Saddam Hussien, had WMD, it still doesn't make sense why so many innocent people, have died, lost their homes, and have been seriously injured because of the conflict. They had nothing to do, with Saddam Hussein and his regime. They probably never even meet the tyrant. But see how they suffer?

As I said on many occasions, acts of violence occur more frequently on innocent people in the Middle East (mainly Muslims), then acts of terror towards westerners. This type of reckless killing all in the name of doing good, ultimately only succeeds in creating more violence in the world.

People think that their countries armies, are careful and caring towards ordinary people. But in a war zone, no distinction is made between innocent and guilty. I have seen footage of an ordinary Iraqi man, who showed no resemblance to a soldier, being shot at despite holding a white flag, and having two children beside him. Everyone is fair game. That's why this war and the war in Afghanistan should never have happened.

If people knew what the real consequences of the war was truly like, no one would have supported it. But 9/11 was the definitive reason, always posed in front of anyone showing any opposition to US tyrannical policy.

If you live in Gaza dodging gunfire everyday form Israeli soldiers, and if you live in Iraq with all the chaos around you. You will become angry at the people who placed you in this position. Thus this war on terror, only creates more terror.



Raptor
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07 Apr 2010, 8:08 pm

I don't see any indication of the rules of engagement being broken. If those Reuters reporters were hanging out with the enemy then they knowingly placed themselves in danger. It's pretty much a no brainer.

The Apache crew did what they were supposed to do and shouldn't be bothered with it.



bully_on_speed
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07 Apr 2010, 8:32 pm

i_wanna_blue wrote:
People think that their countries armies, are careful and caring towards ordinary people. But in a war zone, no distinction is made between innocent and guilty. .
[/b]


your talking about a war with muslam extremests....they dont have uniforms, no flags, there is no hitler leading them. these groups are active militants in a combat zone, unless they currently arent carrying a gun, then their civilians. reguadless of weapon in hand, these people are still violent. you saw an innocent civi get shot with a white flag but what you didnt see is a week before a militant without a weapon walked over to a soldier and detonated a bomb strapped to him. are troops are being attacked from all sides there and are forced to stand by here at home and listen to people like you belittle them



MissConstrue
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07 Apr 2010, 8:35 pm

Did anyone see the children or hear the comments in the video?

Just curious but I know this isn't the PPR forum....


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07 Apr 2010, 10:35 pm

MissConstrue wrote:

Quote:
Did anyone see the children.........?

Yes, but I honestly doubt the gunner saw them.
Please realize that they do not have the luxury of time to evaluate every potential threat. Also keep in mind that the helo itself is a target and they can't afford to loiter in one spot or contemplate anything for very long at all lest they draw fire themselves.

Quote:
.........or hear the comments in the video?

What about the comments? These are soldiers in a war zone and sensitivity takes a back seat as it must. That's the real thing and it's not fair to judge them from the comfort of our homes thousands of miles away. They have seconds to evaluate a potential threat and act while being targets themselves and we have forever to sit back and scrutinize their every action as we sip our martini's.
Hardly fair is it?



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08 Apr 2010, 12:51 am

War is a messy business, durning the invasion lots of American troops got killed by our own. Overall "Friendly Fire," is the cause of up to 25% of our losses.

As for someone with a shoulder mounted camera in a war zone, "Light em up!"

"He swung the camera to film the incoming chopper, they saw a man with a shoulder mounted weapon, pointed at them, he who fires first goes home."

The Reuters reporters deserved recognition, give them the Darwin Award.



i_wanna_blue
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08 Apr 2010, 4:17 am

bully_on_speed wrote:
i_wanna_blue wrote:
People think that their countries armies, are careful and caring towards ordinary people. But in a war zone, no distinction is made between innocent and guilty. .
[/b]


your talking about a war with muslam extremests....they dont have uniforms, no flags, there is no hitler leading them. these groups are active militants in a combat zone, unless they currently arent carrying a gun, then their civilians. reguadless of weapon in hand, these people are still violent. you saw an innocent civi get shot with a white flag but what you didnt see is a week before a militant without a weapon walked over to a soldier and detonated a bomb strapped to him. are troops are being attacked from all sides there and are forced to stand by here at home and listen to people like you belittle them


That's a statement of an ignorant person who believes that all Muslims and all people from the Middle East are evil, because an even more ignorant buffoon like George Bush said so. You probably know nothing about what's going on in the war, and you just defend your country, because you are too afraid to admit that they bully other nations, and give rise to enemies.

This war, had two reasons behind it. Firstly to provide a base in the Middle East, from which to protect Israel. And secondly to steal oil from the people it rightfully belongs. Just because you are too blind to see that doesn't make poor Iraqi people violent.

You are only proving my point anyway. Firstly they are not Muslim extremists. They are ordinary people who have become violent because your "noble" troops have totally destroyed any peace they had. They were not violent before the war started, only after it. Because if they were, then your government would have placed them on the "terrorist" list alongside Bin Laden and Al Qaeda. No mention was ever made about Iraqi extremists until after the war started.

Normal civilians are not violent. You see you have to understand that the US troops are under attack because they unlawfully invaded a country. If Canada invaded the US, don't you think the people will fight back? You see you are blinded by the connection with your country. You believe your county only has "noble intentions". And when they decide to invade a country, that country must be filled with very bad, very violent people. You are brainwashed into believing that.

Which country seems to have the most enemies, throughout each stage of history? Yes the US. Before Muslims extremists your enemies were communists, the Russians, the Vietnamese, Japan, Germany. Your country is the only country in the world that constantly has an "enemy" to deal with.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZX1odzHdAo&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJC1unnuwds&feature=related[/youtube]



bully_on_speed
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09 Apr 2010, 4:30 pm

hold up a pic of an iraqi and a al queda member side by side, can you tell me because i cant see the difference between a civilian and an enemy dressed as a civilian. i never once said all muslams are bad. mearly the extremests. a slim demographic in the muslam community. slim though it may be, it only takes one person with a different opinion of how the world should be to create anarchy. im not just talking about the middle east, lee harvey oswald one man who didnt like how his country was working so he shot our president. tim mcvay(not sure how to spell it) again not happy he blew up a building. there are crazies everywhere. when you attack your own people thats your business as far as im concerned. when thay attack someone else thats a whole new ball game.

btw not every american was for the war. some of us would have had the common sense to go after the one responsible, but we lack the greed to be elected to political office



i_wanna_blue
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10 Apr 2010, 5:01 am

There is no alqaeda in Iraq. Iraqi people who turn violent are not extremists. When war comes to a country people fight violence with violence. To say that ordinary Iraqi citizens are extremists is wrong. I hope you can understand that.

And yes you can't tell the difference between a normal civilian and an extremist. That's why this war should never have started. Innocent people are dying for no reason. Innocent people completely outnumber extremists. That's why so many have died. Probably over 150, 000. Thousands more have lost homes, and thousands more have lost limbs, become paralyzed and even become sick due to the overwhelming poverty and disease which has arisen since the war started. If you were to see, the very last thing President Bush said (at the end of the first video clip I posted above), he was asked "What role did Iraq play in 9/11?". His answer "None".

Alqaeda and Muslim extremists have nothing to do with Iraq. The reason Iraq was invaded was because of "weapons of mass destruction". There is no link between Iraq and 9/11. You see, in your mind your country cannot do something so distasteful as invading a country for no reason.

So you find a reason to justify it. And that reason is to assume that Iraq consists of very bad, very evil people. I mean, why else would they have been attacked? You need to see your Government for what they truly are. Don't be blinded by your patriotism.



i_wanna_blue
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10 Apr 2010, 6:03 am

Let's just roleplay for a bit.

Let's assume Antarctica, was a superpower which rivaled or even surpassed the US. Now the President of Antarctica, decides that he does not like George Bush and his republican party. According to him they are filled with far right extremists.

So he decides to invade America on the basis that they are filled with right wing crazies and possess nuclear weapons which in the "wrong hands" are dangerous.

Firstly who gives the President of Antarctica, the right to judge who possess "wrong hands" and who doesn't? What about his country? Couldn't the same be said about his country?

Secondly the US are showing no deadly force towards his country. So by International law his invasion is illegal. But he is being noble because he is ridding the world of all those really bad far rightests, which according to him are really bad, evil people.

So before he decides to bomb America, does he do the following?

1) Does he realise that not all of the Republican supporters are far right extremists and that they most probably are very few? NO.

2) Does he care that homeless people, those living in poverty and that ordinary US citizens know nothing about Nuclear physics and about producing nuclear weapons? NO.

3) What about all the democrats? Is he going to tell his troops to ask people who they support or voted for before shooting at them? NO.

4) And what about ordinary citizens who are only concerned with feeding their families, and don't care about politics? Is he going to ask people whether or not they fall into this category? NO.

So what's he gonna do? He's just going to bomb America now and ask questions later. If a Republican who knows nothing about nuclear weapons and is not an extremist dies. Who cares? If a democrat dies, he's just gonna say his troops couldn't tell the difference.

So as time passes ordinary citizens who have no ally of their own, because the world is too afraid to question Antarctica realise that they need to defend themselves. So ordinary people start fighting violence with violence. So democrats, Republicans, extremists, the rich, the poor they all have become embroiled in this war. Which was originally against right wingers, but now is against everyone. So now, everyone is an extremist.

I guess I'm the only one who sees something wrong with this.



bully_on_speed
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10 Apr 2010, 10:02 am

no your just the only one that thinks you can change how the world works



i_wanna_blue
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10 Apr 2010, 10:46 am

bully_on_speed wrote:
no your just the only one that thinks you can change how the world works


Well if the world works in a bad way, then I rather be that type of person.



bully_on_speed
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10 Apr 2010, 5:20 pm

id rather be the type that fixes it rather then just point out flaws



i_wanna_blue
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11 Apr 2010, 5:15 am

But how can you fix anything if you don't want to accept that there are flaws in the first place? That's what I'm trying to achieve. To show people that their blind approval and accepting what certain leaders say is unwarranted. I don't criticize, just for the heck of it. I feel this situation deserves criticism because people are suffering when they don't need to.