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you_are_what_you_is
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06 May 2010, 7:56 am

katzefrau wrote:
am i the first person to post the Shaggs? i don't know if they would even count. i don't know if what they were doing was even music.


The Shaggs definitely count, but I'm certainly not a fan of them.


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beau99
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13 May 2010, 2:18 am

I'm surprised there have been no mentions of Daniel Johnston. He's one of my major songwriting influences.


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Moog
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13 May 2010, 3:57 am

Good call beau.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_RbSAwMa3U[/youtube]


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Hector
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13 May 2010, 10:26 am

Depends on what you would call "outsider" music. A lot of people think of "outsider" music as constituting music from people who were aiming for being pop stars, but totally failed and ended up appealing to a fringe market for "strange" music. So I see the term, in that sense, as having to do with historical context rather than music as such. And people like Tiny Tim, Derek Bailey, and Captain Beefheart arguably wouldn't fit - they made strange music, they seemed to know they were making "strange" music, and they didn't care.

It's possible that aspiring pop stars that were really "underground" artists like Daniel Johnston and R. Stevie Moore count as outsider music. That said, a lot of what they make really counts as successful pop music to me, especially Daniel Johnston who at times is too straightforward for my liking. Wesley Willis, again outsider music. The Shaggs, yes. The Residents, maybe, depending on what their intentions were at the beginning. Jandek, I doubt it, despite the tag. Some people I haven't seen that would count include Kenneth Higney, Gary Wilson, and Jack Mudurian.

Some "outsider" music I dig (albums and songs):

Daniel Johnston - Yip-Jump Music
R. Stevie Moore - Phonography
Gary Wilson - "6.4=Make Out", "Loneliness", "Dream(s)"
Complete - "Hoogie Boogie Land", "Beatiful Sunrises" (sic)
The Shaggs - Philosophy of the World, especially "My Pal Foot Foot"
Kenneth Higney - Attic Demonstration

Some "strange" and/or lo-fi music I like that may or may not be "outsider" music, but is superficially similar to some of the above:

The Fall - a lot, but especially Dragnet and Hex Enduction Hour
Tim Buckley - Lorca, Starsailor
Neil Young - Tonight's the Night (not avant-garde at all really, but then neither is most of Daniel Johnston's music)
Syd Barrett - both of his albums
Flipper - A lot, but especially Album: Generic Flipper
Jandek - a lot, but especially Ready for the House, Chair Beside a Window, and Telegraph Melts
Captain Beefheart - Trout Mask Replica, Lick My Decals Off, Baby
Royal Trux - Royal Trux [1], Twin Infinitives
Ween - GodWeenSatan, The Pod
James Chance and the Contortions - Buy
The Residents - a lot, but especially Meet the Residents, Not Available, and Eskimo
John Frusciante - Niandra LaDes and Usually Just a T-Shirt



b9
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13 May 2010, 10:47 am

a "pop star " is a supernova.



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13 May 2010, 12:48 pm

Ariel Pink anyone?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB65ENKm4AM[/youtube]


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you_are_what_you_is
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14 May 2010, 6:27 am

Hector wrote:
Depends on what you would call "outsider" music. A lot of people think of "outsider" music as constituting music from people who were aiming for being pop stars, but totally failed and ended up appealing to a fringe market for "strange" music. So I see the term, in that sense, as having to do with historical context rather than music as such. And people like Tiny Tim, Derek Bailey, and Captain Beefheart arguably wouldn't fit - they made strange music, they seemed to know they were making "strange" music, and they didn't care.

Well, I already clearly explained how I was using the term at the beginning of my post:

I'm interpreting the term 'outsider musician' fairly loosely - I'd call somebody an outsider musician if they exhibit any one of these three qualities: 1) s/he doesn't work within the commercial music industry, 2) the majority his/her music doesn't (or didn't, when it was recorded) fit into any genre or convention, or 3) s/he is called an outsider musician by a significant number of people.

I think my definition is perfectly reasonable, given how the term is used by most people. I wouldn't define it as 'people aiming to be pop stars', because I don't think there's any way of knowing that.


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Hector
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14 May 2010, 12:14 pm

Sometimes you can hear it straight from the people themselves, that's all part of the context. Kenneth Higney didn't want to be a pop star per se, but he was hoping to be a professional song-writer, so his notorious "debut album" was a collection of demos of songs that could hopefully become chart hits.



you_are_what_you_is
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14 May 2010, 7:45 pm

Hector wrote:
Sometimes you can hear it straight from the people themselves, that's all part of the context. Kenneth Higney didn't want to be a pop star per se, but he was hoping to be a professional song-writer, so his notorious "debut album" was a collection of demos of songs that could hopefully become chart hits.

It's possible that they could be lying in order to present a certain character. I'd be surprised if there weren't a lot of musicians out there who do this.


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Jack94
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06 Sep 2017, 9:37 pm

Eclipse247
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21 Sep 2017, 6:56 am

Port Erin. A UK band that goes from spacy music to hard rock which hits the spot for me. I don't know if any spectrum is involved. Just great sounds.
Here is a nice video of a track from their Ocean Grey album recorded at the Tears for Fears private studio near Bath UK. Yes. Reubin is dragging a TV along a beach! A statement that I think Zappa would like. :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT3501_Zhes