Boycott CA and all those that boycott US laws and interests

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Obres
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28 May 2010, 11:02 am

John_Browning wrote:
Obres wrote:
Illegal aliens pay the most taxes, hands down. I mean, you may pay federal taxes, state taxes, maybe even city taxes, social security and a few other random items, but illegal aliens pay a single tax that's greater than all of those combined. It's called the....

PROVIDE AMERICAN CITIZENS WITH LABOR FOR $4 AN HOUR TAX.

And yeah, it's great for our economy. Beyond great even. Our entire standard of living DEPENDS on them. You can't find a better deal anywhere. Well, except maybe for Southeast Asia.

You only benefit from alien invaders doing cheap labor if you are rich and have a job that is not easily outsourced. Most American citizens standard of living suffers due to alien invaders and American citizens need those jobs.


I call BS. If you shop at Wal-Mart, you benefit immensely from cheap labor. Same if you like to eat. We have very cheap food here. Low quality, but cheap. People's standard of living suffers because of greed at the top, not because of illegals.



Obres
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28 May 2010, 11:20 am

Cyanide wrote:
Obres wrote:
Our entire standard of living DEPENDS on them.

That's flawed logic. Here's why...

If all of the approximate 12 million illegals were kicked out, that would open millions of jobs that people on welfare could be made to do (or the unemployed). That would lower the poverty rate, and increase the tax base. Not to mention that 12 million less people would mean lower stress on government services, which means taxes could be lowered. Or, in the case of today, state budget deficits wouldn't be as bad.

Plus 12 million less people would mean less demand on basic necessities. Supply and demand tell us that that would cause a decrease in prices...


That'd work perfectly if people on welfare and the unemployed were all just so eager to break their backs for minimum wage, and if those people who currently employ illegals were just honest stand-up guys who would gladly pay their workers a legal wage and still sell their product at a competitive rate, even if it meant cutting into their own profits.

In reality, American citizens will not do the work illegals do for the pay they do it for. And people who employ illegals depend on their cheap labor. Now I'm not against workers getting a fair wage, but that would mean an overhaul of our entire system, and of our social conventions. Namely, we'd first need to get business owners to accept reasonable profits instead of all expecting to get ridiculously rich off other peoples' work. Second, we'd need to get the American public to stop expecting cheap things. Places like Wal-Mart would have to go down completely. Under a system where workers are paid a solid living wage, massive discount stores like that could not exist. Goods just couldn't be that cheap. If we want workers to earn a fair wage, then we need to be willing to pay more for things.

We need to do that first, then there will be no place for illegals. Just kicking them out without changing our system won't do any good, it'll only cause the businesses that depend on them to collapse, and certainly not to start employing citizens.



apanthropy
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28 May 2010, 11:56 am

Obres wrote:
That'd work perfectly if people on welfare and the unemployed were all just so eager to break their backs for minimum wage, and if those people who currently employ illegals were just honest stand-up guys who would gladly pay their workers a legal wage and still sell their product at a competitive rate, even if it meant cutting into their own profits.
.


Markets tend to seek equilibrium, because ultimately jobs need doing and people need jobs. The situation can be argued back and forth endlessly but low paying, low prestige jobs will continue to exist and be filled because we fat Americans ain't giving up our drive-through deathburgers and maid service and roof repair.

I think that it would be beneficial if our national propaganda machine would seed the public with some positive "every job is worth doing, the garbage man deserves respect because he keeps your neighborhood clean, etc" type messages, because I think prestige and our culture of ridicule and disrespect are a major force keeping citizens from pursuing low prestige jobs. That, and it seems everyone expects that no matter what you earn it's necessary to have an iphone, a huge lcd tv connected to a $80/mo cable+data plan, and a car under 10 years old (that they don't maintain because nobody knows how anymore, or cares to) and so forth. Everyone should aspire to have the life they want.. but frankly a culture in which the poorest people have equivalent possessions to the wealthiest is functionally communist even if not labeled as such.



psychohist
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28 May 2010, 8:01 pm

Obres wrote:
Illegal aliens pay the most taxes, hands down. I mean, you may pay federal taxes, state taxes, maybe even city taxes, social security and a few other random items, but illegal aliens pay a single tax that's greater than all of those combined. It's called the....

PROVIDE AMERICAN CITIZENS WITH LABOR FOR $4 AN HOUR TAX.

Wrong-o.

The illegal alien nannies I was talking about in Southern California? They make over $30,000 a year, working 40-50 hours a week. That's $12-15/hr after tax.

That would be quite enough to attract Americans - legal nannies in Massachusetts, which is too far from the border to have a lot of illegal Mexicans, make about the same $30,000 a year after tax - but that corresponds to $40,000 a year before taxes if you pay taxes, which makes legal nannies uncompetitive in Southern California.

That does perhaps explain why California is so outraged, though - they prefer an economy where they can save $10,000 a year per worker by avoiding the federal taxes that most other regions of the country have to pay.



apanthropy
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29 May 2010, 5:58 am

psychohist wrote:
Wrong-o.

:lol: that's a negation with pizzaz!