Boycott CA and all those that boycott US laws and interests

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skafather84
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21 May 2010, 10:10 am

You'd think after California had so much problem with outsiders influencing CA politics, they'd have learned a thing or two about how to influence other states but I guess not.


The AZ law is absurd considering that it's impossible for most people at most given times to prove they are American citizens. There's no real national identification besides the passport and that's not a legally required piece of identification for anyone to carry.

If you want to fix the immigration problem, legalize drugs.


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apanthropy
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27 May 2010, 4:57 pm

I had to laugh when Los Angeles said they were going to boycott AZ, OK guys... have fun with that... oh by the way where do you get half your electricity and a sizeable portion of your water?

Not to mention shrimp.. yes, Arizona farms shrimp and ours isn't contaminated with mercury like ocean shrimp.

As for the law, I also have to laugh at all the people getting upset. I'm genetically european and most of the time when I see an officer he or she is latino or black.. maybe it's just the part of town I'm in but when officer Gonzales asks me for my ID I'm obligated and quite happy to hand it to him. I've even been asked for ID by an O'odham officer... just about the only race that's NOT an immigrant here. No big deal, here's my drivers' license and have a nice day.

I envy the people making a big deal about the law, their lives are so perfect and free of real worry that they actually have the time and energy to get upset over this nothing.



psychohist
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27 May 2010, 7:27 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
It critics don't say the Law states all Latinos MUST be checked for legal residency. Critics merely posist that since "reasonable cause" isn't defined, many officers will take that to mean skin-colour.

I believe the term used is "reasonable suspicion", not "reasonable cause".

I believe "reasonable suspicion" is the level required for arrests in some countries, like Great Britain. The U.S. has a slightly higher standard of "probable cause" for searches and arrests.

The term is defined. It's even been used in some recent U.S. Supreme Court decisions.



psychohist
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27 May 2010, 7:35 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
Clarence Dupnik has noted that minor offences will be used as pretexts - tail lights defunct and the mix.

"Pretext"? We'd all be better off if the police spent more time pulling people over for safety violations like defunct tail lights rather than ticketing people for exceeding speed limits that practically everyone exceeds.



psychohist
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27 May 2010, 7:43 pm

visagrunt wrote:
Actually, any alien subject to deductions at source does pay taxes.

That describes relatively few illegal aliens.

For example, in Southern California, it's nearly impossible to find a nanny who is in the U.S. legally, specifically because you would then have to pay the "nanny tax" - employer half of social security, 7% - and they would have to pay the 7% social security tax. Not having to pay 14% tax, along with any income tax, makes them considerably more competitive.



Obres
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27 May 2010, 10:28 pm

Illegal aliens pay the most taxes, hands down. I mean, you may pay federal taxes, state taxes, maybe even city taxes, social security and a few other random items, but illegal aliens pay a single tax that's greater than all of those combined. It's called the....

PROVIDE AMERICAN CITIZENS WITH LABOR FOR $4 AN HOUR TAX.

And yeah, it's great for our economy. Beyond great even. Our entire standard of living DEPENDS on them. You can't find a better deal anywhere. Well, except maybe for Southeast Asia.



Cyanide
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27 May 2010, 11:16 pm

Obres wrote:
Our entire standard of living DEPENDS on them.

That's flawed logic. Here's why...

If all of the approximate 12 million illegals were kicked out, that would open millions of jobs that people on welfare could be made to do (or the unemployed). That would lower the poverty rate, and increase the tax base. Not to mention that 12 million less people would mean lower stress on government services, which means taxes could be lowered. Or, in the case of today, state budget deficits wouldn't be as bad.

Plus 12 million less people would mean less demand on basic necessities. Supply and demand tell us that that would cause a decrease in prices...



Kenani
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27 May 2010, 11:29 pm

If they are allowed to become citizens then all their jobs will instantly become jobs held by Americans...

I would totally boycott Arizona if I had anything to boycott.



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28 May 2010, 12:32 am

Obres wrote:
Illegal aliens pay the most taxes, hands down. I mean, you may pay federal taxes, state taxes, maybe even city taxes, social security and a few other random items, but illegal aliens pay a single tax that's greater than all of those combined. It's called the....

PROVIDE AMERICAN CITIZENS WITH LABOR FOR $4 AN HOUR TAX.

And yeah, it's great for our economy. Beyond great even. Our entire standard of living DEPENDS on them. You can't find a better deal anywhere. Well, except maybe for Southeast Asia.

You only benefit from alien invaders doing cheap labor if you are rich and have a job that is not easily outsourced. Most American citizens standard of living suffers due to alien invaders and American citizens need those jobs.


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phil777
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28 May 2010, 3:16 am

Hmm, i just thought about it but... It makes me wonder why when i read articles like these, that you call yourselves the United States of America. <.< -sigh- And yes i've read american history. =.= I know how the country came to be. >< Still kinda odd to see bickering among yourselves.



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28 May 2010, 3:55 am

phil777 wrote:
Hmm, i just thought about it but... It makes me wonder why when i read articles like these, that you call yourselves the United States of America. <.< -sigh- And yes i've read american history. =.= I know how the country came to be. >< Still kinda odd to see bickering among yourselves.


I forget who, but some scholar has pointed at the the United States is really nine separate nations bound together inside a unitary legal wrapper. There are major cultural and political differences between various sections of the country. I can tell you from personal experience that the far west of the Colorado, Utah, New Mexico, Arizona region is not the same country as, say, New York, New Jersey and New England. And these two are quite distinction from the Southern states along the Atlantic Coast. The Pacific Northwest is also very distinct from the rest of the country.

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apanthropy
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28 May 2010, 4:12 am

Kenani wrote:
If they are allowed to become citizens then all their jobs will instantly become jobs held by Americans...

I would totally boycott Arizona if I had anything to boycott.


I guess you don't eat food then eh? LA gets its water from northern california's farmland (I grew up in the san joaquin valley, farming) and from the colorado river, which is under arizona's control. if the water didn't come from here, more would need to be drawn from northern california and farming would become much more expensive there, and much less productive. which would increase the cost of food everywhere, for everyone to whom california exports.

so yeah, boycott our water and electricity, boycott our copper (hey do you own anything electrical?) hey make sure to boycott GM, Volvo, Toyota, Volkswagen, Ford... all have their vehicle test facilities here. Boycott our beef, yours will become more expensive. Stop watching movies filmed here. Stop using anything electrical or any aircraft, most industrial switches, aircraft brakes & wire harnesses, weapons system electronics are made by honeywell here. Stop receiving protection from the US military who buys their weapons systems from arizona based dillon precision and whose every communications loudspeaker is made by arizona based mitek corp. stop using any satellite based communications because nasa's computer/equipment racks are all built by mitek. if you're in a commercial building and the fire alarm starts ringing, ignore it because chances are overwhelming that it's a notification system built by arizona based atlas sound. throw away most of what you own, since motorola, intel, ibm, texas instruments, raytheon, bombardier, universal avionics, flipchip, white electronic designs, IED, labcorp, rodel, sumika, seimens, general electric, pacific office automation, xerox, on semiconductor, microchip, fender instrument, godaddy, swift transportation and countless other major suppliers, manufacturers, and technology developers are either based here or have major installations here. don't go to a harkin's theater or use wells fargo bank, both are based here. don't use uhaul, they're based here. don't look at any billboards since clearchannel outdoor is based here. don't stay in a best western hotel or buy from discount tire, both based here. I could go on for longer than this bulletin board system supports but you hopefully get the idea.

we're a desert but not barren by any stretch. so go ahead and boycott us... but boycotting isn't a salad bar where you pick and choose based on what's convenient, you're either in it or not.



Obres
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28 May 2010, 11:02 am

John_Browning wrote:
Obres wrote:
Illegal aliens pay the most taxes, hands down. I mean, you may pay federal taxes, state taxes, maybe even city taxes, social security and a few other random items, but illegal aliens pay a single tax that's greater than all of those combined. It's called the....

PROVIDE AMERICAN CITIZENS WITH LABOR FOR $4 AN HOUR TAX.

And yeah, it's great for our economy. Beyond great even. Our entire standard of living DEPENDS on them. You can't find a better deal anywhere. Well, except maybe for Southeast Asia.

You only benefit from alien invaders doing cheap labor if you are rich and have a job that is not easily outsourced. Most American citizens standard of living suffers due to alien invaders and American citizens need those jobs.


I call BS. If you shop at Wal-Mart, you benefit immensely from cheap labor. Same if you like to eat. We have very cheap food here. Low quality, but cheap. People's standard of living suffers because of greed at the top, not because of illegals.



Obres
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28 May 2010, 11:20 am

Cyanide wrote:
Obres wrote:
Our entire standard of living DEPENDS on them.

That's flawed logic. Here's why...

If all of the approximate 12 million illegals were kicked out, that would open millions of jobs that people on welfare could be made to do (or the unemployed). That would lower the poverty rate, and increase the tax base. Not to mention that 12 million less people would mean lower stress on government services, which means taxes could be lowered. Or, in the case of today, state budget deficits wouldn't be as bad.

Plus 12 million less people would mean less demand on basic necessities. Supply and demand tell us that that would cause a decrease in prices...


That'd work perfectly if people on welfare and the unemployed were all just so eager to break their backs for minimum wage, and if those people who currently employ illegals were just honest stand-up guys who would gladly pay their workers a legal wage and still sell their product at a competitive rate, even if it meant cutting into their own profits.

In reality, American citizens will not do the work illegals do for the pay they do it for. And people who employ illegals depend on their cheap labor. Now I'm not against workers getting a fair wage, but that would mean an overhaul of our entire system, and of our social conventions. Namely, we'd first need to get business owners to accept reasonable profits instead of all expecting to get ridiculously rich off other peoples' work. Second, we'd need to get the American public to stop expecting cheap things. Places like Wal-Mart would have to go down completely. Under a system where workers are paid a solid living wage, massive discount stores like that could not exist. Goods just couldn't be that cheap. If we want workers to earn a fair wage, then we need to be willing to pay more for things.

We need to do that first, then there will be no place for illegals. Just kicking them out without changing our system won't do any good, it'll only cause the businesses that depend on them to collapse, and certainly not to start employing citizens.



apanthropy
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28 May 2010, 11:56 am

Obres wrote:
That'd work perfectly if people on welfare and the unemployed were all just so eager to break their backs for minimum wage, and if those people who currently employ illegals were just honest stand-up guys who would gladly pay their workers a legal wage and still sell their product at a competitive rate, even if it meant cutting into their own profits.
.


Markets tend to seek equilibrium, because ultimately jobs need doing and people need jobs. The situation can be argued back and forth endlessly but low paying, low prestige jobs will continue to exist and be filled because we fat Americans ain't giving up our drive-through deathburgers and maid service and roof repair.

I think that it would be beneficial if our national propaganda machine would seed the public with some positive "every job is worth doing, the garbage man deserves respect because he keeps your neighborhood clean, etc" type messages, because I think prestige and our culture of ridicule and disrespect are a major force keeping citizens from pursuing low prestige jobs. That, and it seems everyone expects that no matter what you earn it's necessary to have an iphone, a huge lcd tv connected to a $80/mo cable+data plan, and a car under 10 years old (that they don't maintain because nobody knows how anymore, or cares to) and so forth. Everyone should aspire to have the life they want.. but frankly a culture in which the poorest people have equivalent possessions to the wealthiest is functionally communist even if not labeled as such.



psychohist
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28 May 2010, 8:01 pm

Obres wrote:
Illegal aliens pay the most taxes, hands down. I mean, you may pay federal taxes, state taxes, maybe even city taxes, social security and a few other random items, but illegal aliens pay a single tax that's greater than all of those combined. It's called the....

PROVIDE AMERICAN CITIZENS WITH LABOR FOR $4 AN HOUR TAX.

Wrong-o.

The illegal alien nannies I was talking about in Southern California? They make over $30,000 a year, working 40-50 hours a week. That's $12-15/hr after tax.

That would be quite enough to attract Americans - legal nannies in Massachusetts, which is too far from the border to have a lot of illegal Mexicans, make about the same $30,000 a year after tax - but that corresponds to $40,000 a year before taxes if you pay taxes, which makes legal nannies uncompetitive in Southern California.

That does perhaps explain why California is so outraged, though - they prefer an economy where they can save $10,000 a year per worker by avoiding the federal taxes that most other regions of the country have to pay.