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Exclavius
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19 May 2010, 9:23 pm

Yeah, I'm a libertarian... Oh wait, you mean the political definition, don't ya. :D
No.. I'm a metaphysical libertarian. (well, close enough anyways)

Political Libertarianism, dang, no chance there.. you guys want too much government for my liking. :twisted:

Unfortunately, we're stuck with government, so i'll cast my vote to whatever will make today best, and the ultimate collapse come fastest!



Awesomelyglorious
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20 May 2010, 12:23 am

Exclavius wrote:
Political Libertarianism, dang, no chance there.. you guys want too much government for my liking. :twisted:

Unfortunately, we're stuck with government, so i'll cast my vote to whatever will make today best, and the ultimate collapse come fastest!

Political libertarianism can go pretty far. I mean, one of the founders of the libertarian party was a self-proclaimed anarchist. (Other anarchists reject his claim because he still accepted capitalism)



Exclavius
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20 May 2010, 7:18 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Exclavius wrote:
Political Libertarianism, dang, no chance there.. you guys want too much government for my liking. :twisted:

Unfortunately, we're stuck with government, so i'll cast my vote to whatever will make today best, and the ultimate collapse come fastest!

Political libertarianism can go pretty far. I mean, one of the founders of the libertarian party was a self-proclaimed anarchist. (Other anarchists reject his claim because he still accepted capitalism)


I have a political philosophy which encompasses the best of socialism and anarchy.
ie.. be a socialist until capitalism fails and revel in the anarchy that follows!



Sassychick
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23 May 2010, 1:06 pm

I'm somewhat of a libertarian. It's a shame I can't register to vote that way and that the libertarian party is not one of the main parties ;)



codarac
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25 May 2010, 5:28 pm

I have seen libertarianism (more than once) disparagingly referred to as a form of autism, and I would not be surprised to find many libertarians in here. I might have sympathized with libertarianism a few years ago, especially given the worthlessness of Britain's New Labour government - but their dreadfulness was as much a result of a decadent political culture as it was of "the inevitable inefficiency of government". After hearing the views of some self-styled libertarians, my head says it all seems a bit formulaic to me, and I don't really think there's a simple formula for a healthy society.

It's all very well fetishising freedom, but the fact is people (most people) are not all that independent. If they do not have the government telling them what to do, they will likely still have the media telling them what to think.

What's more, I don't think most people (NTs anyway) really want the sort of "freedom" libertarians advocate. Most people (NTs, again) have a psychological need to belong to something larger than themselves, and most people welcome the responsibility (ie, loss of "freedom") that comes with, say, starting a family. Of course, people can be persuaded otherwise via propaganda, just as children can be persuaded that candy floss is better for them than vegetables.

That said, I like to see libertarians in the public sphere because their support for freedom of speech and freedom of association seems to rile up some of the more culturally Marxist members of the media and political elite.



Awesomelyglorious
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25 May 2010, 5:54 pm

codarac wrote:
What's more, I don't think most people (NTs anyway) really want the sort of "freedom" libertarians advocate. Most people (NTs, again) have a psychological need to belong to something larger than themselves, and most people welcome the responsibility (ie, loss of "freedom") that comes with, say, starting a family. Of course, people can be persuaded otherwise via propaganda, just as children can be persuaded that candy floss is better for them than vegetables.

Well, I don't think this is really a refutation of the "freedom" libertarians advocate. Libertarians are not opposed to religions, social groups, communities or any of these other things larger than themselves. They also don't advocate an utter rejection of responsibility. The real issue is the freedom to make choices and being able to choose the sacrifices that will define your life, not having absolute freedom at all periods of time.

I think a real point of difference between you and libertarians is that in some sense libertarians have some of the deepest commitments to pluralism(although I think many of them don't recognize this), as classics in a more libertarian tradition, such as "On Liberty" by JS Mill(which is more classical liberal) or "Anarchy, State, and Utopia" by Robert Nozick(which is modern libertarian) tend to recognize a deep importance for pluralism and diversity in society. You might not even be within the overall liberal tradition though, but rather more of a communitarian or something else.