Page 1 of 2 [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

right-hand-child
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 11 May 2010
Age: 27
Gender: Male
Posts: 221

22 May 2010, 4:25 pm

so ive been wondering what the official ratio for this is. i (think i) know that the reason that men are more likely to have AS than girls is that because men have the XY chromosone and because the AS gene is for the X chromosone, the male has no other X gene to back this up if it is faulty, whereas if a female has the AS gene they have an extra X chromosone, or a least thats what i read somewhere (and i feel it may be wrong). knowing this, by basic probability with basic genetic science, i'd estimate the ratio of AS males to AS females to be 75:25.

i just want to veriefy, is this correct? im sorry if i offend you for making naive assumptions but i just want to confirm. thanks.



Peko
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,381
Location: Eastern PA, USA

22 May 2010, 4:42 pm

From what I know its 4 out of every 5 are male (80%). Though I'm a girl :)


_________________
Balance is needed within the universe, can be demonstrated in most/all concepts/things. Black/White, Good/Evil, etc.
All dependent upon your own perspective in your own form of existence, so trust your own gut and live the way YOU want/need to.


sinsboldly
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,488
Location: Bandon-by-the-Sea, Oregon

22 May 2010, 4:44 pm

no, not really. You see, you are only figuring on known cases of AS. Also AS presents differently in girls than in guys so actual DX of girls is skewed.

I would say that for those who ARE DXed 75:25 might be right, but it is a limited sampling.


_________________
Alis volat propriis
State Motto of Oregon


MuayThaiKid
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 5 Apr 2010
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Posts: 108

22 May 2010, 4:44 pm

your math looks right. but that would mean for girls, both parents would need to have the gene for AS. me and my sis have diff dads, and she was diagnosed ADD(im almost 100% certain its AS) but looking at the type of person her dad is, I'd say your theory is pretty possible. you just need more documentation to prove it. such as surveying a lot of families.



DandelionFireworks
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,011

22 May 2010, 5:10 pm

That would imply that it's a sex-linked recessive, with the same pattern of inheritance as color-blindness.

That would make logical sense. It is further consistent with my family (my mother is NT, but my father is an Aspie).

However, this theory assumes a single gene. Currently, there are several different theories about the cause, but if the cause is genetic, we're relatively certain that it's very complicated, and further, linked to other chromosomes, which would be a serious flaw in your hypothesis.

Then there's the possibility of environmental causes. Then there's the theory that the reason there are more males on the spectrum is because it involves exaggerations of certain masculine traits. Then there are the people who believe it's caused by vaccines, and if that's the case, then it's probably the protective effect that estrogen has against mercury.

Whatever your theory, we have higher testosterone, on average, than NTs-- hence the relatively high rates of precocious puberty. Perhaps it's just that most females won't present with such high levels of testosterone even if it's exceptionally high.



right-hand-child
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 11 May 2010
Age: 27
Gender: Male
Posts: 221

22 May 2010, 5:44 pm

DandelionFireworks wrote:
That would imply that it's a sex-linked recessive, with the same pattern of inheritance as color-blindness.

That would make logical sense. It is further consistent with my family (my mother is NT, but my father is an Aspie).

However, this theory assumes a single gene. Currently, there are several different theories about the cause, but if the cause is genetic, we're relatively certain that it's very complicated, and further, linked to other chromosomes, which would be a serious flaw in your hypothesis.

Then there's the possibility of environmental causes. Then there's the theory that the reason there are more males on the spectrum is because it involves exaggerations of certain masculine traits. Then there are the people who believe it's caused by vaccines, and if that's the case, then it's probably the protective effect that estrogen has against mercury.

Whatever your theory, we have higher testosterone, on average, than NTs-- hence the relatively high rates of precocious puberty. Perhaps it's just that most females won't present with such high levels of testosterone even if it's exceptionally high.

i geuss my theory is probably wrong, its just something i thought of when i read an article on "why children with autism tend to avoid physical contact", details arent improtant.
either way im sure there are flaws to my theory, but i was kinda asking if there was already a known explanation. thanks though



CockneyRebel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 104,840
Location: Canada in person, Germany in spirit

22 May 2010, 5:46 pm

I'm really not sure, what the ratio would be.


_________________
Peabody

Om Nom 2024

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26&start=645


LostAlien
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Feb 2009
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,577

22 May 2010, 6:03 pm

right-hand-child wrote:
so ive been wondering what the official ratio for this is. i (think i) know that the reason that men are more likely to have AS than girls is that because men have the XY chromosone and because the AS gene is for the X chromosone, the male has no other X gene to back this up if it is faulty, whereas if a female has the AS gene they have an extra X chromosone, or a least thats what i read somewhere (and i feel it may be wrong). knowing this, by basic probability with basic genetic science, i'd estimate the ratio of AS males to AS females to be 75:25.

i just want to veriefy, is this correct? im sorry if i offend you for making naive assumptions but i just want to confirm. thanks.

As far as I understand it, it's moreso that girls manifest differently. We're less lightly to have obvious obsessions and are more difficult to diagnose. Another possibility is that some people (who can diagnose) have the firm belief that Asperger's is a male thing, resulting in lower diagnosises in females.

Also, it is believed my Granny may have been on the Spectrum.



Last edited by LostAlien on 22 May 2010, 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mosaicofminds
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 17 Mar 2010
Age: 31
Gender: Female
Posts: 319
Location: USA

22 May 2010, 6:04 pm

Dandelion's right--several genes have been associated with ASD so far, and more may be discovered. I don't know whether these genes tend to be dominant, recessive, or one of those weird types that's combinatory or additive.

I would not be surprised if scientists discovered that the autistic spectrum, ADHD, Tourette's, NVLD, and SPD shared similar genes. They seem to co-occur a lot in families. Although my family may not be typical, we have two undiagnosed parents with different types of sensory processing and attention abnormalities, one of whom has benefited from a stimulant and probably has ADD. There is also a child with Asperger's and hyperlexia (my brother), and another with NVLD and inattentive ADD (myself). There is also a good deal of depression and anxiety in the family, which has hit all members of my immediate family, and the extended family includes people with fibromyalgia/chronic fatigue, Bipolar Disorder (IIRC), and Borderline Personality Disorder. However, I don't know if there's a genetic link between these personality problems and the developmental disabilities in the family, or if it's just a coincidence.

"Whatever your theory, we have higher testosterone, on average, than NTs-- hence the relatively high rates of precocious puberty. Perhaps it's just that most females won't present with such high levels of testosterone even if it's exceptionally high."
High testosterone tends to go with higher aggression and sex drive. There's certainly people here with these characteristics, but there seem to be even more with the opposite. Where did you find this information, Dandelion? It's surprising, and I'd like to read more.

Re: the sex ratio, the figure I've read is 1 female: 4 males, but of course females are underdiagnosed, so it's probably more even. Interestingly, the ratio is supposed to be similar in ADHD among children, but in adults, it's almost 1:1. It's controversial whether this change represents real interactions between gender and development in ADHD, or whether the ratio is really even and women are just easier to diagnose than girls. If the autistic spectrum is anything like ADHD, the gender ratio may also change over the lifespan. Do you guys know anything about this?



Sparrowrose
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,682
Location: Idaho, USA

22 May 2010, 8:58 pm

Mosaicofminds wrote:
If the autistic spectrum is anything like ADHD, the gender ratio may also change over the lifespan. Do you guys know anything about this?


My reading (though I can't recall where I read it) says that males these days are usually diagnosed when their age is in single digits while females are usually not diagnosed until their teen years because most females don't show "problems" until their peers shift from toys and jumpropes to make-up and boys.

That would make the 1:4 ratio (which has often been admitted to be a childhood measure) shift quite dramatically around age 15-20 although I have no idea how far it shifts and haven't seen any hard data.


_________________
"In the end, we decide if we're remembered for what happened to us or for what we did with it."
-- Randy K. Milholland

Avatar=WWI propaganda poster promoting victory gardens.


katzefrau
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,835
Location: emerald city

22 May 2010, 9:36 pm

take the "official" ratio based on who is diagnosed.

take into consideration the less obvious presentation in women, and the possibility of diagnostic bias (that doctors assume therefore that it is less likely in women, and don't look for it).

take about a fifth of the women that have eating disorders but aren't diagnosed with an ASD and add them in.

take some women diagnosed with bipolar and BPD whose diagnoses don't seem to fit quite right, and add them in.

in other words, i don't think anyone really knows.


_________________
Now a penguin may look very strange in a living room, but a living room looks very strange to a penguin.


Sparrowrose
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,682
Location: Idaho, USA

22 May 2010, 9:57 pm

"While 1.0 per cent of the adult population had an autism spectrum disorder, the rate for men was higher (1.8 per cent) than for women (0.2 per cent). This was in line with studies among child populations which show higher rates amongst boys."

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/164936.php


_________________
"In the end, we decide if we're remembered for what happened to us or for what we did with it."
-- Randy K. Milholland

Avatar=WWI propaganda poster promoting victory gardens.


Danielismyname
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Apr 2007
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,565

22 May 2010, 10:31 pm

Same as the "LFA" one, which is 4/5 to 1.

The problems people spoke of were the extreme ratios of like 15/18 to 1, but this was because of a lack of awareness and misdiagnosis of females.



budgenator
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 2 Aug 2009
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 389

23 May 2010, 9:27 am

An interesting line of research is the link between Vitamin D deficiency and autism, estrogen has positive effects on calcitriol levels, but testosterone does not,which would also explain sex-based differences. Googling vitamin D deficiency during pregnancy is associated with autism in children. will give you 132,000 pages of results. Some researchers are saying light-skinned people should take at least 1,300 IU a day, dark-skinned at least 3,100 IU a day. The rapid increase in people with ASD parallels the medical advice to avoid sun-exposure and use sun-block. To get into the toxic range with vitamin D 50,000 IU need to be taken for months, given the low cost of Vitamin D, the potential risk to benefit ratio and the high safety margin, it seems a no-brainer to me. I've been taking 2,000IU a day for about 6 months and seem to feel much better and the more annoying ASD symptoms are either much reduced or in remission.


_________________
"I feel like a stranger in my own life"


Bluefins
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Aug 2009
Age: 30
Gender: Female
Posts: 975

23 May 2010, 12:19 pm

According to rdos, there's as many BAP males & females - but diagnosed females score 10 points higher than diagnosed males, which accounts for the different diagnosed ratio.

I think the symptoms are less obvious / negative in girls. A quiet man with odd body language & eye contact is seen as more threatening than a woman with the same. Girls also tend to get more training in socializing, empathy etc from friends & family than boys do.



JakeGrover
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 21 May 2010
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Posts: 221
Location: Vermont, USA

23 May 2010, 1:04 pm

I sure hope there's more AS girls. :)