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John_Browning
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04 Jun 2010, 8:06 pm

The cameras are on. They just aren't using all ROVs at once all the time, and a couple of them seem broke. The cap seems to be offsetting the amount of extra oil being shot out by cutting the pipe, but other than that it's not working well. They didn't come up with a good enough method of sealing it.

At this point their best bet is to develop an atmospheric diving suit that can handle a depth of 5,000ft. So that they can send men down with the necessary dexterity to wrench on it.


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04 Jun 2010, 8:41 pm

I see that it's working now. I don't think they can send men down there, though. The size of the pipe is very large, so I don't see how it's possible for men to do anything manually down there. Besides, the oil is very toxic.

I know that they've capped it and that they're siphoning off some of the oil, but it seems that the amount that is still going into the ocean is not significantly less than what it was before they cut the pipe and capped the ruptured pipe. I've read that it leaks out 14,000 to 16,000 gallons per day, but they're only managing to collect around 1,000 gallons per day. Besides, the flow out of the pipe had increased ever since they cut it.


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04 Jun 2010, 9:17 pm

It does not seem to be going well. If BP says cutting the pipe will increase flow 20%, I think they dropped a zero.

Even at that if they pull 5,000 barrels a day to the surface, the net flow continues, but we know BP lies.

The purpose of this cut and salvage, is for BP to to get some of their oil.

They increase the flow by 5,000, capture 5,000 at $70, they stand to make money from this. $3.5 million a day.

Now if I spilled one barrel, the fine is $4300, and I would have to pay.

At 20,000 barrels a day the BP fine should be fairly high by now, 45 days, X 20,000 barrels, X $4300.

This is above the cost of cleanup, damages, and is what any other company would pay per day for a leaking tank, pipeline, and BP should have paid 1,000,000 barrels X $4300 by now.

Has the EPA collected $4,300,000,000? They should have, The ongoing fine should be running $86 million a day. Any other oil company would be paying per day.

Why does a Royal Monopoly get different treatment?

These numbers are low, from BPs own slowly rising numbers, and others say 80,000 to 100,000 barrels a day. Someone should check, the fine could be $20 Billion by now.

Cleanup and damages will run for decades, and no one gets to keep that in house, BP needs to deposit into a fund, not controlled by them, for they might declare bankruptcy.

Just Florida tourism is $60 billion a year, and this oil will coat both coasts.

This will last a generation or more, and a fund should be established, and BP should put up several hundred billion now.

As total damages exceed market cap, all of the corporate assets should be transfered to the fund, and the stock become worthless.

This is what would happen to me, any other company, when liabilities exceed assets.



John_Browning
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04 Jun 2010, 10:10 pm

Inventor wrote:
This will last a generation or more, and a fund should be established, and BP should put up several hundred billion now.

As total damages exceed market cap, all of the corporate assets should be transfered to the fund, and the stock become worthless.

This is what would happen to me, any other company, when liabilities exceed assets.

In 5 years it will be almost forgotten. Also be careful about being so zealous about penalizing BP that it causes repercussions to the rest of the economy. If you suddenly make blue chip stocks worthless, that crashes the DJIA and causes panic selling.


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MathGirl
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04 Jun 2010, 10:43 pm

Inventor wrote:
They increase the flow by 5,000, capture 5,000 at $70, they stand to make money from this. $3.5 million a day.
True. So it's 5,000, not 1,000. Still not even half of the total flow.

Edit: I've read an article again and it said 1,000 barrels, with 12,000 to 19,000 barrels spewing out. So basically, nothing was accomplished.


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05 Jun 2010, 1:23 pm

John_Browning wrote:
Inventor wrote:
This will last a generation or more, and a fund should be established, and BP should put up several hundred billion now.

As total damages exceed market cap, all of the corporate assets should be transfered to the fund, and the stock become worthless.

This is what would happen to me, any other company, when liabilities exceed assets.

In 5 years it will be almost forgotten. Also be careful about being so zealous about penalizing BP that it causes repercussions to the rest of the economy. If you suddenly make blue chip stocks worthless, that crashes the DJIA and causes panic selling.




To Big To Fail? One oil company going under as the result of their behavior, would be a lesson for the rest. They are The Lehman Brothers in this story, caught taking risks that killed them.

It will be longer than five years for fisheries and tourism to recover, a lot of small holders are going to be foreclosed, lose everything. That will ripple through our Gulf Economy, drag down all other business, and tax collections. Our local banks hold the mortgage, and banking has been on thin ice.

This is the heart of the spawning grounds for the oceans, and for the Mississippi Flyway. The base of the food chain is the shrimp and what they feed on, they need the brakish water of the marshes and shallow lakes, bayous. and that is where the oil is going.

We take 3.5 billion pounds from the life chain, have had to limit catch, close a few fisheries, Redfish, to keep the numbers supportable. The oil will breakdown, stocks will recover, but not for decades.

Shrimp boats, charter boats, and the hotels, can not wait for decades. In today's news, beach tourists in western Florida are coming out of the water coated in oil they could not see, and are being solvent washed. They are leaving oil soaked trails where they walk from the beach back to the hotels.

Oil floats and is being left behind at high tide, to sink in to the white sand. We will have hurricanes, it will push the oil farther in, coating all surfaces where life grows.

Our economy was based on fishing, beach tourism, and oil. That is the human life chain.

BP does nothing, they sub contract exploring, drilling, and what they own is developed and capped wells, proven reserves. The quality of the assets will not change, just what used to be owned by BP Stockholders will be owned by other people.

The Stockholders voted for Directors who self insured and bet everything, they lost.

There is no way to "Make Whole," the fisheries, tourism, and the economy it supported.

BP stock is not falling as fast as the price of a shrimp boat, or a waterfront hotel. Millions of people are going to lose everything, including their future. In our coastal areas almost all income is from fishing.

This is a lot worse than a house in Las Vegas dropping by half. They had other jobs, or could move to another city. Fishing boats are worth nothing when there is no fishing, and the docks, processing plants, freezers, trucks, and the people have been fishing for generations. It supported all local services, schools, local government, and it just ended.

The human damage exceeds BPs net worth, then they are the fines, and the cost of cleanup, thousands of square miles of marsh, and all of the beaches.

Then there is the damage to life that will take decades to recover, and it will not come back as the same mix. If the shrimp do not spawn, there will be few fish, and other species will move in. Stinging jellyfish eat the same things.

Just from the damage so far, our way of life is over. The full extent of the damage will not be known for a generation. If BP survives, the US Government will not.



ruveyn
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05 Jun 2010, 2:14 pm

If the Ixtoc 1 oil spill of 1979 did not kill sea life in the Gulf of Mexico (that oil spewed out for over ten months, by the way), so why should the current oil spill kill off sea life in the Gulf?

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Last edited by ruveyn on 06 Jun 2010, 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hartzofspace
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05 Jun 2010, 3:35 pm

I found this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ixtoc_I_oil_spill


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05 Jun 2010, 8:38 pm

hartzofspace wrote:


IsToxic topic

That spill should have been the last. :evil:


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xenon13
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06 Jun 2010, 2:02 pm

Halliburton must be taken to the cleaners and liquidated for this. Everything they touch turns to, well, I need not say any more.



ruveyn
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07 Jun 2010, 7:53 am

xenon13 wrote:
Halliburton must be taken to the cleaners and liquidated for this. Everything they touch turns to, well, I need not say any more.


As Ricky Ricardo used to say: They got a lot of 'splaining to do.

I hope the courts compel the tort feasors to pay through the nose. It is only just. Maybe if the damages or substantial it will send a message to the rest of the industry to be more careful in their practices and in their risk management.

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07 Jun 2010, 11:49 pm

Ixtoc was in a small place, not near the Gulf Stream, and 48 miles from more than half of all the wetlands in North America.

The marsh is mostly peat, a sponge, and there is no cleanup possible. If the grass dies it washes away, it does not come back. All life in the Gulf starts in the marshes.

Reports are saying the oil is waist deep along the coast. it is just waiting for a hurricane to spread it inland.

Katrina took 281 square miles of marsh, this could take thousands, and when you destroy a wetlands, the law says you must replace it.

The government is talking about the per barrel fine, and a bond for damages.

Tens of billions and decades, plus cleaning the Gulf, the beaches, and the economic damage.

It reminds me of child support, produce a child, pay for it for eighteen years.

Then there is the Three Strikes Laws, Purdue Bay oil spill, Texas City refinery explosion, now this.

The Courts have ruled Corporations to be people, so they should be able to get life without parole.



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08 Jun 2010, 8:25 am

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/06/07/ ... tml?hpt=T2

Yeah...he totally said 'that'.

*FACEPALM*



ruveyn
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08 Jun 2010, 8:26 am

Inventor wrote:
Ixtoc was in a small place, not near the Gulf Stream, and 48 miles from more than half of all the wetlands in North America.



But it leaked out for over ten months. Lots of oil got in the water.

The earth did not perish. The fish did not die. Life went on.

The same thing happened in Alaska in the years following the mishap of the Exxon Valdez.

In eras gone by the Siberian and the Deccan traps erupted for millions of years, but life survived. At one time the Earth was a snowball, but life survived. At one time the atmosphere was mostly methane but life survived.

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Almighty_CRJ
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08 Jun 2010, 4:55 pm

Inventor wrote:
Why does a Royal Monopoly get different treatment?

IIf I could just ask - I'd like to know who granted this royal monopoly, of which you speak?

It can't be the British monarchy, BP ceased all association with Britain in 1998 after the merger with the Indiana .oil company Amoco. Not to mention, Britain ceased all association with BP in 1987.

Kuwait monarchy?


Here's some humor for you. In the early 00's, BP had the advertisement campaign 'Beyond Petroleum' I don't think they got that far beyond for everybody's liking.