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Kiley
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06 Jun 2010, 2:26 pm

Aimless wrote:
Kiley wrote:
One more thing:

My middle son has some of the traits you do. His terrible twos were lovely, he was so charming (still is, and has the most incredible eyes)! ...

I spoke to his Psychiatrist who treats his ADHD about it too, and he said it wasn't anything to worry about. He knew he had AS a long time before I did, and never mentioned it as this boy does just fine. This doc has an adult son with AS, and when I asked himif he thought this kid would test as having AS at his upcoming eval he just grinned and said, "Well, YEAH." Just DUH, mom, where have you been. I just see how great this kid is, not the "problems", which really aren't problems just differences. He's just so darn competent.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Start squeaking. :)


.../.This would have been in the mid 60's, far before Asperger's was diagnosable. I usually get dismissed if I ask for a professional opinion as an adult, but I think it's quite possible if I was a child today, I would be diagnosed as being on the spectrum. It's been discussed here before about how coping skills you learn mask the deficits that are inherent. Actually, this helps if I do decide to go back into therapy, as for something to work on. The problem with this sort of thing is this is hard wired in me now. My Myers-Briggs is INFP btw.


That's interesting. I'd thought you were younger, not that it matters but it makes a difference in diagnosis and what you'd have encountered. Even today you'd be likely to be missed as a female. I was being tested frequently in the 70s because there were too many "things that didn't add up." It was ADHD but girls didn't get that then so it was missed. They felt that my academic performance, which was spotty but not consistantly dismal, wasn't up to what I ought to be doing. I don't know exactly what they thought I was supposed to do that I didn't do, but they talked a lot about lack of focus and "flashes of brilliance" (their words not mine). It sounds pretty obviously ADHD today, but I wasn't hyper and tended to be more easily tired.

A diagnosis might not help you beyond working toward self understanding and happiness. I've got a friend in her 60s who we've decided has ASD. She's had two successful careers but there are things she's always questioned about how she connects to people. She was a successful Methodist Minister and later a Civil Servant, cares deeply about people, but has had other baffling issues.

I'd not seen her in a while, but had learned a lot about AS since our previous meeting. As we lingered over lunch I realized that she had an odd inflection in her voice. It'd always been there but didn't ever seem significant. I also remembered how she has certain restricted behavior and rituals, that I've always known about her, but they are just her personal foibles, no big deal. I told her about AS and said I thought she could easily have it, and she agreed. It doesn't matter, but I think she might have found some answers. She's brilliant and capable of reading more if she finds it helpful.



marshall
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06 Jun 2010, 2:55 pm

Aimless wrote:
That actually explains how I feel very well, marshall. I of course know I exist but I never felt like I was significant in anyway. There was always a disconnect between my "self" and my environment, like I'm a ghost in a machine or I'm trapped under glass. My concept of myself was as a bother or an afterthought from the very beginning. I have a hard time asking for attention and when I ask for it and don't get it I feel a deep seated anger and resentment. Knowing that doesn't make the feeling go away, but at least it keeps me from dumping on people unfairly. At least I try. Anyway, because of this sometimes I feel ephemeral and insubstantial. Maybe that's why I like to eat so much. :?

I'd think the fact that you ask for attention and feel angry when you don't get it implies that you do have a sense of self. I mean that anger isn't just lashing out due to a sense of your needs not being immediately met like it would be for a 2 year old. It's more a sense of personal injury at the fact that people are unaware of your existence or might not care. A self has to exist for it to feel that kind of injury. I don't think a 2 year old is capable of having this kind of existential injury because their sense of self isn't developed enough. I think for me it wasn't until near puberty where I really could have felt this way. Of course even now it's kind of a subconscious thing for me, like I don't even realize that I have a sense of self until something causes it to feel injured.



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06 Jun 2010, 3:35 pm

marshall wrote:
Aimless wrote:
That actually explains how I feel very well, marshall. I of course know I exist but I never felt like I was significant in anyway. There was always a disconnect between my "self" and my environment, like I'm a ghost in a machine or I'm trapped under glass. My concept of myself was as a bother or an afterthought from the very beginning. I have a hard time asking for attention and when I ask for it and don't get it I feel a deep seated anger and resentment. Knowing that doesn't make the feeling go away, but at least it keeps me from dumping on people unfairly. At least I try. Anyway, because of this sometimes I feel ephemeral and insubstantial. Maybe that's why I like to eat so much. :?

I'd think the fact that you ask for attention and feel angry when you don't get it implies that you do have a sense of self. I mean that anger isn't just lashing out due to a sense of your needs not being immediately met like it would be for a 2 year old. It's more a sense of personal injury at the fact that people are unaware of your existence or might not care. A self has to exist for it to feel that kind of injury. I don't think a 2 year old is capable of having this kind of existential injury because their sense of self isn't developed enough. I think for me it wasn't until near puberty where I really could have felt this way. Of course even now it's kind of a subconscious thing for me, like I don't even realize that I have a sense of self until something causes it to feel injured.


Yes, but I'm not saying I don't think I have a sense of self; only that it's incomplete or damaged.



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06 Jun 2010, 4:10 pm

Kiley wrote:

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That's interesting. I'd thought you were younger, not that it matters...

I'm not surprised, I've never had that comfortable sense of self autonomy that a well adjusted adult has. There was a thread a while back asking about this and a lot of people here felt childlike in a way. I've never been able to accomplish the usual things like real job, marriage,buying a new car or a house. I live like someone not long out of school.



ColdBlooded
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06 Jun 2010, 4:24 pm

My mom says that when i was little that when other people would wave to me, i'd wave at myself too instead of waving back at the person.. lol. I would think that was probably some kind of sense of self or theory of mind issue.
I feel like my "self" is sort of blank sometimes and that i have to kind of create the "self" that communicates with the rest of the world from parts made up of my interests or whatever. Hard to explain it.



marshall
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06 Jun 2010, 4:45 pm

Aimless wrote:
Yes, but I'm not saying I don't think I have a sense of self; only that it's incomplete or damaged.

Yea, sorry.



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06 Jun 2010, 5:51 pm

marshall wrote:
Aimless wrote:
Yes, but I'm not saying I don't think I have a sense of self; only that it's incomplete or damaged.

Yea, sorry.

That's OK :) I'm having a hard time articulating exactly what I mean. Your first comment really hit the nail on the head though about the two definitions of self. The second definition is probably the one I feel is insubstantial and perhaps the first is the only one that feels legitimate. It's a depersonalization thing I think.



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06 Jun 2010, 9:49 pm

eon wrote:
I agree with the idea of the self as the "object" that is experiencing sensory feedback. I sometimes abstract out so far as to view my body as "me".

I read in the complete guide to asperger's syndrome that due to Theory of Mind impairments it was quite common in Attwood's clinical experience to see that the diagnosed had developed a highly abstract & philosophical sense of self.


Im not sure that this was common, though maybe common enough to be mentioned.

Even at around age 5, I was acutely aware of an ethereal self existence, as a machine with an intelligence governing this ' object'. My thinking was removed from the everyday experiences. Far different than any of my peers.

The challenge has been with the "sense of the other" as it took me a long time to understand how others think , due to "a theory of what the other mind is" deficit , as I didnt have a comparable model (me) to model someone else with.

In this sense Ive been an outsider except for a few neurodiverse people have met, and could never "even feel remotely connected to another human" and would usually feel uncomfortable around people, enough to be phobic about it.

My "sense of self" is on the order of being a trans human.



Kiley
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06 Jun 2010, 10:00 pm

ColdBlooded wrote:
My mom says that when i was little that when other people would wave to me, i'd wave at myself too instead of waving back at the person.. lol. I would think that was probably some kind of sense of self or theory of mind issue.
I feel like my "self" is sort of blank sometimes and that i have to kind of create the "self" that communicates with the rest of the world from parts made up of my interests or whatever. Hard to explain it.


That's actually very typical, and adorable. Maybe something else was going on with you, but little guys just starting to wave often wave first at themselves.

Aimless,

I think women of your generation were groomed to think of themselves as a bother. What your feeling may be at least in part cultural.

My family was/is very weird that way. My grandmother attended college in the early years of the last century, and dit it twice as fast, twice as well and at a younger age than the guys. Uppity women run in the family.